Mage or Warlock?

BadCharlie

Dustaz wrote: »

wws or theyre dire.

Thats kind of saying im **** . cause no way a hunter can be out dpsing a lock or mage lol's. Even in our guild they dont understand how i can do it. All other hunters dont come close. Even the best hord guilds on our server i have groupd with them and still out dps them....

Im very competive when it comes to game's ect. Used to play for Ireland in cs ect.. for my county in GGA sports ect.. Winning MMG in the south east ect... Well im not going to bore you to death. lol

But you should check out other hunters before u check out mine. Hardly any hunter can do over 400dps & pet on 176. Most hunters are under 300dps with very poor hit raiting.

Killed Lurker and that element boss last night and then went to mag was fun. If we had poor dps we would not be taken this boss's down with 2mins to spare before enrage.

And yes i was top DPS guy again last night.

Just saying this so no one will be turned off hunters thinking we can all be crap.

Anti

BadCharlie wrote: »

Thats kind of saying im **** . cause no way a hunter can be out dpsing a lock or mage lol's. Even in our guild they dont understand how i can do it. All other hunters dont come close. Even the best hord guilds on our server i have groupd with them and still out dps them....

Im very competive when it comes to game's ect. Used to play for Ireland in cs ect.. for my county in GGA sports ect.. Winning MMG in the south east ect... Well im not going to bore you to death. lol

But you should check out other hunters before u check out mine. Hardly any hunter can do over 400dps & pet on 176. Most hunters are under 300dps with very poor hit raiting.

Killed Lurker and that element boss last night and then went to mag was fun. If we had poor dps we would not be taken this boss's down with 2mins to spare before enrage.

And yes i was top DPS guy again last night.

Just saying this so no one will be turned off hunters thinking we can all be crap.

I completly agree with you, a hunter who knows what hes doing, and wants to end up on top will always do so. In every kara run ive been in ive managed to out dps t4 locks/mages/rogues/warriors when i try. Some days i cant be bothered and do the bare minimum, and still end up in the top 3. Out of interest what is the highest crit you've landed ?

DapperGent

BadCharlie wrote: »

But you should check out other hunters before u check out mine. Hardly any hunter can do over 400dps & pet on 176. Most hunters are under 300dps with very poor hit raiting.

Killed Lurker and that element boss last night and then went to mag was fun. If we had poor dps we would not be taken this boss's down with 2mins to spare before enrage.

These figures seem strange to me. WWS and recount has our hunters doing well past 1000dps over a 4 hour raid and still coming fifth, I do 1kdps easy as an enhance shaman. On a blow cool down fight like Teron they'd be getting past 2k and still not topping stuff.

Granted this is people in Tier 6, but my old guild did SSC and our top 3 would always be our 3 pro BM hunters however they would again be past 1k dps and it's some measure of how poor the rest of the dps was that my enhance shammy was consistently fourth. You should try getting proper meters like Recount or WWS you might find you're selling yourself short at 600 or so DPS, I dunno how a raid can be killing stuff in SSC while their top dps is sub 600 just seems strange.

Anyway to echo the above if you're consistently coming ahead of your Warlocks and Rogues in particular then either they're shít or they're not getting the group support they need. For example a rogue has no chance of topping a meter if he doesn't have an enhance shaman and a warrior in his group.

BadCharlie

4800 would be the highest i have done in my spec. Well apart from doing curator but that should not count which would have been a little under 10k.

But as i never use Aimed fire while doing 25 person raids due to its 3 sec cast time. I normaly end up doing 1800 to around 2200 crits when buffed. Not buffed would be 1800 crit max, with out aimed. If i want real high crits then i would spec MM but then my pet like i said before would hit like a girl. But with a spec of 41/20/0 i think you will do more damage over time.

Also i would like to add dont compair me to T6 hunters. The guild im in is only farming T4 drops and 6 toons have t5 shoulder me been 1 of them.

BadCharlie

DapperGent

You don't know hunters then.
My DPS im giving is just if i hit fire and do noting else. Using no CD or arcane fire. But just hiting the fire button walking away for 5mins ect..

Yes we do group our 2 rogues with sham and dps warrior like last night.

Also i do use recount and so do our member. Another uses WWS so why did you think we did not ?

jason&arthur

ok guys, firstly kara is not the place for checking what classes are good dps, the majority of the time whoever has an idea of how to play their class will top the meters because the rest of the raid are bads.

secondly if you want to dps as a hunter you spec BM, thats just how it is. if you dont want to spec BM but you still want to raid, then you spec Survival and stack agi to boost your melee/other hunters. MM is not a raid spec, its a pvp spec.

lastly mages have been pulling some rediculous dps recently, heres an example:
http://wowwebstats.com/235hgpmcsigre?s=0-64
(although the rogues/hunters in that raid seem sub par)

heres a typical benchmark dps fight example:
http://wowwebstats.com/wldxf3pmzq4gq?s=10683-11017
as you can see locks/BMhunters/rogues/mage top the meter with roughly the same dps, and then there is a small jump to other classes

BadCharlie

Well it looks to me, either you think my guild is **** or im full of ****.

Maybe hunters in your guild are crap ? Maybe they are not spec is not BM ?

Im not going to try and convoince you guys any more. We will just leave it at my guild members must be all crap.

DapperGent

BadCharlie wrote: »

Well it looks to me, either you think my guild is **** or im full of ****.

Maybe hunters in your guild are crap ? Maybe they are not spec is not BM ?

Im not going to try and convoince you guys any more. We will just leave it at my guild members must be all crap.

If you want to take personally perfectly obvious game mechanics be my guest. Call back when you've finished puberty.

BadCharlie

DapperGent wrote: »

If you want to take personally perfectly obvious game mechanics be my guest. Call back when you've finished puberty.

That's a bit below the belt, and getting a bit nasty. A personal attack like that puts you in a total differint light.

You keep jumping to conclusion like this very post. Also about us not using Recount, WWS or the correct groups. Also saying they must be shít if im out DPSing the other class's. Also that you cant figure out how my 575 dps with pet unbuffed can not go up higer when using aimed, arcane, steady, stings, multi, bloodrage ect. Or how we kill anything in SSC.

Over all im not selling hunters short at. And im trying to say we can do better then you think or seen we can. I do agree in 25 person raids that their is only room for 1 hunter due to generaly lack of dps. But as guilds on our server say if they do find a IMBA hunter they will bring 2. Our guild do use 2 hunters because i keep up and keep ahead of the other class's at this moment.

DapperGent

BadCharlie wrote: »

You keep jumping to conclusion like this very post. Also about us not using Recount, WWS or the correct groups. Also saying they must be shít if im out DPSing the other class's. Also that you cant figure out how my 575 dps with pet unbuffed can not go up higer when using aimed, arcane, steady, stings, multi, bloodrage ect. Or how we kill anything in SSC.

Forgive me for thinking you were quoting your actual DPS. Why you think anyone would be able to tell anything from the dps you do while you're afk is bewildering. I figured you're meters were wrong because the DPS you were quoting was too low. Obviously.

Over all im not selling hunters short at. And im trying to say we can do better then you think or seen we can. I do agree in 25 person raids that their is only room for 1 hunter due to generaly lack of dps. But as guilds on our server say if they do find a IMBA hunter they will bring 2. Our guild do use 2 hunters because i keep up and keep ahead of the other class's at this moment.

My old guild brought three every raid because they were the best DPSers in the guild, that means nothing for how good a hunter's dps is in general. What it is is what the experienced raiders on the thread have said since the start i.e. it's good but its not the best and not close to the best in general. Presuming equal geared players in a well set up raid hunters should always be below Warlocks and Rogues for certain and maybe even Mages and Fury Warriors. The hunters in my guild are above Mages and below our fury warriors so prob a bit of a toss up.

Now I don't couldn't care less which of those five classes happens to be best DPS at the moment (I don't raid as any of them) but hunters aren't top DPS and that's not opinion it's just a fact and again a fact I don't care about.

Ivan

Settle down folks, things are getting a little too heated for what is essentially a non-issue. It seems Anti and BadCharlie are having a different conversation to everyone else...

Anti and BadCharlie are stating they do great dps and sometimes even the best dps in their guild. Whereas everyone else, myself included, seem to be trying to get the point across that this is not normally the case and would be against the desired intentions of Blizzard and the witnessed results my many a player here.

But hunters are a strange class in raids, to say the least. I had a friend who was in the BT/HJ guild that I eventually joined that was consistently topping the raid in HJ despite the fact that he was survival. Of course, when he changed to BM we all noticed a significant increase in his damage done. So it became obvious to everyone that he was just a great player.

But DapperGent please refrain from personally attacking posters, regardless of how dubious you may think their claims are.

nicryan

copeyhagen wrote: »

im laughing skull horde side too. whats ur toon named? i honestly thought i was the only irish player on the realm!! on horde side anyway.

I'm Monkair - a troll mage in thermal

-Nic

BadCharlie

So back on topic.

Einstein what are you leveling now ? Warlock or Mage

Would love to level another toon to 70 my self, but the bore of leveling....

copeyhagen

nicryan wrote: »

I'm Monkair - a troll mage in thermal

-Nic

ill whisper you later ; )

Einstein

BadCharlie wrote: »

So back on topic.

Einstein what are you leveling now ? Warlock or Mage

Would love to level another toon to 70 my self, but the bore of leveling....

lvl 17 warlock atm. with tailoring & first aid. Haven't decided on a second profession yet...maybe enchanting.

I'm liking the warlock I think, reckon when he levels up he'd be pretty powerful...also started a Night Elf Druid, up to level 6...might swap between the two and see where it gets me.

copeyhagen

yeh good idea. i personally get sick of levelling the same ****e again after a couple of days, i do usually have a few alts in the go at once.

never played alliance though, what with alliance being 90% 12 year olds and that hahaha

jokin.

horde ftw ofc

Psycopat

Dustaz wrote: »

The current benchmark for dps is Brutallus in sunwell plateau:
http://wowwebstats.com/1n2o3d3sufrjc?s=9501-9840&m

That DPS is INSANE im in a guild thats 5/5 MH and 7/9 BT and our top dps'ers are around 1.5-1.6k dps, jesus that rogue was up on 2.7k

jason&arthur

Psycopat wrote: »

That DPS is INSANE im in a guild thats 5/5 MH and 7/9 BT and our top dps'ers are around 1.5-1.6k dps, jesus that rogue was up on 2.7k

u prolly ent spamming haste/destruction pots, drums, stacking the raid perfectly etc. that plus they have better gear from actually farmin bt / hyj for a little longer than ya.

basically dont worry, 1.6k dps is fine for killing illidan and u wont have problems.

now if u have an average of 1k< that would be a problem

Dustaz

the key to brutallus is throwing the kitchen sink at him. We just downed him for the second time yesterday and got into the top 75 of wws dps (30441 raid dps!). Would have been higher except i covered myself in shame and did terrible dps.

The fight is all about dps doing absolutly the max damage they can do. LW'ers with drums of battle are vital as are destruction pots and haste pots. Its a nice change from the movement based fights in sunwell.

HereticPrincess

Personally I prefer Mage
It's my favorite class, I'm a Draenei aswell so the armour always looks fantastic for Mage class

Einstein

so my lock is lvl 22 now, and have a lvl 8 paladin and lvl 6 night elf...
Think i like the paladin cos of the mix of magic and decent fighting/armour...
Should probably stick with three and leave it at that for a while Really wanna get my lock to 40 and get the mount with the firey feet

Psycopat

jason&arthur wrote: »

u prolly ent spamming haste/destruction pots, drums, stacking the raid perfectly etc. that plus they have better gear from actually farmin bt / hyj for a little longer than ya.

basically dont worry, 1.6k dps is fine for killing illidan and u wont have problems.

now if u have an average of 1k< that would be a problem

The top dpsers ie warlocks and rogues are using destruction pots and haste pots every cd but the rest of the raid ie our mages, shadow priests and hunters seem to always be about 2% behind us =/ dunno if their not pushing it to the max or what. Oh i forgot to say our fury warrior does absolutly insane damage, we killed council on our 3rd attempt this week and our fury warrior did 12% of the damage, a destro lock 2nd on 10.5% and myself ( destro lock) on third at 10.3%, followed by rogues and then the rest were well behind, it was a very clean kill and i think we had only 1 or 2 deaths the whole fight. theres also not much moving around and its a long fight so its a good judge of dps imo. cant wait to try brutalis and enjoy a pure damage nuke fest, im sure ill have my 4 part t6 at that stage


as for the leveling i got a pally at 41 for a long time and i tried to pick him up the other day and nearly died of boredom =/ out of my 3 chars lock/warrior/palla the lock has been by far the most fun to level

Anti

that mount will only cost you 2g too

Dellarocca

As an Afflcition Warlock, I can highly recommend them. I was able to farm 6 primal life in half an hour last night off the bog lords in Zanga. Dot dot dot.

If raids, I am usually the highest DPS (rogues sometimes beat me here).

Locks are fun. You can play them in a variety of styles. Liek all classes I suppose. But a lock should have ZERO downtime when levelling. They are simple to level.

jason&arthur

if youre an affliction warlock in a raid and youre coming top of the damage meters, you are in a very bad raid. it is a good spec for leveling tho

Dellarocca

I disagree. An affliciton lock obviously does their best 'damage, over time'. On a boss fight lasting 8-10 minutes, using good DoT rotation and trinkets and fully buffed, I see no reason why I can't be top of the damage meters.

Even with trash, I can cause a lot of damage. Trash mobs with 200k don't go down in a few seconds so I usually have time to get some decent damage off, especially of they are all being tanked and not CCd. I can cast my DoTs on the tanked mobs when others are still concentrating on the first kill. So all of my DoTs are ticking on ALL of the trash mobs. No-one else can claim to be able to do that. For example, 3 trash mobs = 3 groups of DoTs = maybe 1500-2000 DPS (am guessing here) or more being my output.

Decent rogues generally come out above me though. out of the (maybe) 4 rogues in our raids, 2 of them will outperform me.

BadCharlie

Have to agree with Dellarocca here. Your toon Class might not be the best to put out the most dps, or your spec might not be the best choice. But 1 thing that people over look time and time again is skill.

Some ways of people missing on doing more DPS.

I see it time and time again people doing noting in raids " Down time = no DPS " To slow to get going in boss fights ect.

Dieing in boss fights early on, by either not avoiding something or over aggro something. If they keep doing this on raid nights, they are just crap players. Im sure we all have 1 or 2 of them in each guild.

I find rogues intresting class to compair in my guild. We have 2 rogues that out dps the other 3 rogues by alot. Their gear all looks very much the same, Just 2 rogues have more skill then the other 3 i would sum it up.

Simple put you could be the best geared Lock in a guild. Have Destro spec and yet not finish in the top 5 ? why ? Cause gear dont buy you top dps spot if you dont have the skill to play your toon to get you the top.

Going to take another game which is not WoW. I play Cs or used to, me and my friend have the same gear on terroist side and both using the Awp. At end of game i have 48kills and 1 death. He has 15kills and 12 deaths.....

Our guild we have
2 Very good locks.
3 mages.
2 Rogues
2 Warriors.
1 Sham.
1 Hunter.

This is going by DPS on Recount, Hunters always on top!

jason&arthur

well if skill is an issue the raid has problems anyway

all equal skill (ie. a half decent raid) firstly a destruction lock will destroy an affliction lock. obviously not talkin kara level here but propper raids ie bt+

secondly affliction is not even considered a "dps" spec. its sub par to real dps specs and is only considered as support for reduced damage on tank and improved curses for real spec locks


trash is irrelevent.

assuming everyone knows how to max dps; heres how it goes

1. combat swords rogue
2. bm hunters / destro locks
3. fire mages
4. ele/enchance shemmies / arms or fury wars
5. ret pallys / spriest / affliction locks / frost mages / survival hunters


thats just how it is, not oppinion. fact.
disagree, ok, you're wrong.

Wreck

I'm not having a go at anyone or anything like that, but what some people seem to forget is the game is basically maths. And when you do the calculations it is clear that certain classes and certain specs will potentially have far greater dps than others. So when someone states that a non-optimal spec or class is regularly topping the dps in their raids, we are entitled to draw conclusions about the skill and gear level of the people involved. In the example given above of the affliction lock consistently topping the dps either he significantly outgears the rest of the dps or they are bad players.

I don't raid seriously anymore (although I'm thinking about getting back into it) but if a non-optimal class/spec topped the dps the officers and class leaders would come down heavily on the other dps in order to ensure that in future they did their jobs properly.

Dellarocca

There is an interesting point that 've been trying to decide on for a while.

When to go Destro. Our guild is only doing SSC/TK/MH atm. A few bosses down in each of these. We've gruul/maggy on farm. I've gotten no gear from any of them so still have my frozen shadoweave gear, spellstrike hood etc... Mainly crafted gear and Kara drops.

And any gear I see, it doesn't do my current spec any good. So if anyone has advice or a link to somewhere that points in the right direction for turning Destro, i'm all ears.