First with the news:Tara protesters to be removed

abccormac · 13-03-2008 5:28pm

Jesjes wrote: »

Ideally, no.

When they found the wooden henge the only reason anyone knew was because the media caught wind of it (thankfully) otherwise it would have just been bulldozed.

There is such a thing as preservation by excavation where they remove the artifacts and store them safely ... but they're not doing it safely.

No one even knows how many new amazing finds have been bulldozed in the name of getting this road through.

Care to provide a single shred of evidence to back up this nonsense? Regardless of any media attention, archaeological best practice would have been followed in excavating the site at lismullen. Nothing at that particular site was in a state that warranted in situ preservation. There is a very comprehensive record of the "amazing new finds" that were bulldozed to create this road, one which will in due course be pulished, just like the publications of other archaeological excavations carried out on road schemes over the last decade or so.

Preservation by record is what archaeology is all about. ANY archaeological excavation is by its very nature destructive. The protestors at rath lugh have dug a tunnel through an archaeologically sensitive area, and built a camp with fires and other related activity on top of a protected monument. They are causing damage to the archaeological record in a way that in many ways is worse than that caused by the road. At least the N.R.A. excavates, records, studies and publishes the sites that roads pass over.

lostexpectation · 13-03-2008 5:38pm

abccormac wrote: »

Care to provide a single shred of evidence to back up this nonsense? Regardless of any media attention, archaeological best practice would have been followed in excavating the site at lismullen. Nothing at that particular site was in a state that warranted in situ preservation. There is a very comprehensive record of the "amazing new finds" that were bulldozed to create this road, one which will in due course be pulished, just like the publications of other archaeological excavations carried out on road schemes over the last decade or so.

Preservation by record is what archaeology is all about. ANY archaeological excavation is by its very nature destructive. The protestors at rath lugh have dug a tunnel through an archaeologically sensitive area, and built a camp with fires and other related activity on top of a protected monument. They are causing damage to the archaeological record in a way that in many ways is worse than that caused by the road. At least the N.R.A. excavates, records, studies and publishes the sites that roads pass over.

the current authority on tara said don't build a road through there at all, that's what the professionals said, then you don't to destruct everything, the archeology is in the landscape, you can't preserve it a basement of museum.

these so called professionals didn't double check where rath lugh was? there a joke of company

JIZZLORD · 13-03-2008 5:44pm

did anyone listen to the protestor twat on the last word on today fm.

Suaimhneach · 13-03-2008 5:45pm

http://www.livevideo.com/video/4819A5371FDA46BAB4A42CA1D60B2A1F/rathlugh-down-under.aspx

Watch that whole video if you can. If not, let it load and watch from the point where there is 16 minutes left and you tell me how that 40 ton digger is preservation by excavation... I dont disagree with your logic - I am saying that they are not even doing that!

JIZZLORD · 13-03-2008 5:46pm

http://www.ireland.com/newspaper/breaking/2008/0313/breaking40.htm

basically a daft eco warior type is hiding iin a hole in a tunnel beneath tara

edit, see above video.

while i admire the efforts of those who want to protect tara and such, some idealistic studenty types hiding in a whole is stupid.
i think the destruction of tara would be a bad thing but i hate indymedia types.

The Sparrow · 13-03-2008 5:52pm

JIZZLORD wrote: »

did anyone listen to the protestor twat on the last word on today fm.

Quote of the year from this idiot:

"I don't appreciate being treated like a child and neither does Squeak":D:D:D

abccormac · 13-03-2008 5:54pm

Jesjes wrote: »

http://www.livevideo.com/video/4819A5371FDA46BAB4A42CA1D60B2A1F/rathlugh-down-under.aspx

Watch that whole video if you can. If not, let it load and watch from the point where there is 16 minutes left and you tell me how that 40 ton digger is preservation by excavation... I dont disagree with your logic - I am saying that they are not even doing that!

Can't watch the video at work, but I can tell you that the use of machinery is often necessary on archaeological sites.

Suaimhneach · 13-03-2008 5:57pm

Well Cormac all I can tell you is that I dont disagree with your logic, but that what you talked about "Preservation by record is what archaeology is all about. ANY archaeological excavation is by its very nature destructive. " that they're not doing it that way - at all. They're just bulldozing what they can.

The Sparrow · 13-03-2008 5:59pm

Jesjes wrote: »

Well Cormac all I can tell you is that I dont disagree with your logic, but that what you talked about "Preservation by record is what archaeology is all about. ANY archaeological excavation is by its very nature destructive. " that they're not doing it that way - at all. They're just bulldozing what they can.

As opposed to having no archaeological qualifications and digging tunnels underneath the site that are held up with a tyre jack. That really sounds like the protesters are respecting the site.

Steve · 13-03-2008 6:01pm

George Hook just on the radio now giving a hard time to some English Hippie who was spokesman for the "group" live from the 'front line'.

Apparantly the woman has a bicycle D-lock around her neck connected to a car-jack holding up the roof of the tunnel.

Ste.phen · 13-03-2008 6:05pm

woooo232 wrote: »

As opposed to having no archaeological qualifications and digging tunnels underneath the site that are held up with a tyre jack. That really sounds like the protesters are respecting the site.

There's a question of scale there that you don't seem to be addressing.

Suaimhneach · 13-03-2008 6:07pm

Based on the video that you cant watch they spent 4-6 months making the tunnel. I dunno how that effects things but obviously the people who're living on the Rath are there to protect it and took every measure possible to protect it while knowing the risks of digging the tunnel.

Trojan911 · 13-03-2008 6:08pm

Jesjes wrote: »

Well isnt it nice to see this thread twirl in an ever downward spiral. I think I'll refrain from commenting on any of the above posts - their qualities speak for themselves.

This thread was never in an upward spiral, in my opinion. When these protesters/antagonists/anarchists start to learn to protest in a peacefull manner then I might start listening to them.

Your linked website & further internet research only confirmed to me what I knew was going on in the first place. The quality within your site speaks also for itself.

lostexpectation · 13-03-2008 6:09pm

Trojan911 wrote: »

This thread was never in an upward spiral, in my opinion. When these protesters/antagonists/anarchists start to learn to protest in a peacefull manner then I might start listening to them.

Your linked website & further internet research only confirmed to me what I knew was going on in the first place. The quality within your site speaks also for itself.

what not peaceful about the protest, I don't think you understand the concept pf protest

The Sparrow · 13-03-2008 6:11pm

Igy wrote: »

There's a question of scale there that you don't seem to be addressing.

Jesjes wrote: »

Based on the video that you cant watch they spent 4-6 months making the tunnel. I dunno how that effects things but obviously the people who're living on the Rath are there to protect it and took every measure possible to protect it while knowing the risks of digging the tunnel.

You reckon?

A quote from Lisa "Squeak" Feeney from the Irish Times on Monday:

"We've built them with lump hammers, buckets and a string system," said Ms Feeney. "It's a labyrinth - a lot of the work was done by night over the last couple of months. Security hasn't really noticed because we've been bringing out bags of sand and dumping it nearby. Real Shawshank Redemption stuff."

Dumping it nearby??? Real Shawshank Redemption stuff? Yeah it sounds like it is a pretty extensive tunneling system that cannot be doing the site any good. They sound like idiots who think that they are in a movie or something.

Rovi · 13-03-2008 6:12pm

stevec wrote: »

George Hook just on the radio now giving a hard time to some English Hippie who was spokesman for the "group" live from the 'front line'.

Apparantly the woman has a bicycle D-lock around her neck connected to a car-jack holding up the roof of the tunnel.

I loved how George asked him where he lives in Ireland and he waffled about on about living "on the rath"; and when George asked him if he had given up his job to be there, he got more vague waffle. :rolleyes:

Just heard on the radio that their court case got rejected too.
(open to correction on that, I heard it in the background of a noisy environment)

Dr Strange · 13-03-2008 6:13pm

woooo232 wrote: »

"I don't appreciate being treated like a child and neither does Squeak":D:D:D

Sounds like a pet gerbil.

Sarky · 13-03-2008 6:14pm

What I find most interesting about the whole fiasco is that whenever I've heard any lecturer in archaeology or Irish history in NUIG get angry and ranty about it, they're always most angry at the hippies who are claiming to protect the site. I wouldn't mind knowing how much damage has been done to Tara by well-meaning hemp sandals stomping around digging holes around it and such...

Suaimhneach · 13-03-2008 6:14pm

To clarify, its not my site.

Steve · 13-03-2008 6:16pm

Rovi wrote: »

I loved how George asked him where he lives in Ireland and he waffled about on about living "on the rath"; and when George asked him if he had given up his job to be there, he got more vague waffle. :rolleyes:

Yep, didn't have much to say about what he was "protecting" either - other than something about the pyramids in egypt.

Dr Strange · 13-03-2008 6:17pm

Rovi wrote: »

Just heard on the radio that their court case got rejected too.
(open to correction on that, I heard it in the background of a noisy environment)

Yes you are right. Here it is from RTÉ:

Injunction to stop Rath Lugh work refused

Thursday, 13 March 2008 16:59
The High Court has refused to grant an injunction stopping works near the Rath Lugh national monument on the new M3 motorway.

Peadar Ó Ceallaigh, a member of the Rath Lugh Direct Action Camp, had sought the injunction on the basis that there were breaches of the preservation order on the monument.

However, Ms Justice Mary Lafoy ruled that there was no evidence before her that there had been any breach of the National Monuments Act.

She also ruled that he had no legal standing to take action on behalf of anyone who may or may not be in a tunnel.

Meanwhile, a woman demonstrating against the M3 roadworks remains in a tunnel dug by protestors at Rath Lugh.

Supporters claim the woman is chained by the neck to a jack and any attempts to try and remove her will cause the tunnel to collapse.

Around 40 construction workers together with about ten gardaí remain at the scene, where a fence has been erected to prevent any further incursion by the protestors.

Following negotiations between the protestors and the fire chief, it has been agreed that no attempt will be made to try and remove the woman from the tunnel.

The tense stand off at the scene is continuing and is likely to do so for some hours.

A number of other protestors have chained themselves to overground obstacles at the scene.

Story from RTÉ News:
http://www.rte.ie/news/2008/0313/tara.html

http://www.rte.ie/news/2008/0313/tara.html

Rovi · 13-03-2008 6:18pm

Edited-
Too slow!

Thanks Preusse

Dr Strange · 13-03-2008 6:21pm

Rovi wrote: »

Edited-
Too slow!

Thanks Preusse

cornbb · 13-03-2008 6:30pm

Well, there goes the "she's upholding the law" argument. Now some garda will be forced to remove her by some court order, putting both their lives at risk, and the real ugly stuff will begin which is probably exactly what she wanted to happen all along. I hope she's happy.

kowloon · 13-03-2008 6:30pm

As long as it's recorded properly it shouldn't matter much.
Question is, would the motorway construction be stopped if something of true note was found?

seamus · 13-03-2008 6:35pm

Now they should come with fun ways of convincing her to come out, things that they can legally throw down the hole.

Stink bombs? Non-lethal snakes? Spiders?

lostexpectation · 13-03-2008 6:37pm

kowloon wrote: »

As long as it's recorded properly it shouldn't matter much.
Question is, would the motorway construction be stopped if something of true note was found?

the whole area is of true note, thats the point

Trojan911 · 13-03-2008 6:45pm

lostexpectation wrote: »

what not peaceful about the protest, I don't think you understand the concept pf protest

We will just watch this space then.... Do you honestly think this will end peacfully?

event · 13-03-2008 6:46pm

so that woman is now breaking the law?

this is correct, yes?

kowloon · 13-03-2008 6:54pm

lostexpectation wrote: »

the whole area is of true note, thats the point

It's going ahead anyway, my point is if they find something unique after they've started will it be too late to stop?
If I was planning a road I would stay away from finds rich areas based on that risk.

Also, some of the Archaeology companies are less moral than others and will plough through areas to the construction deadlines without doing the job properly.
Taking it slow and doing it properly doesn't promote new contracts with the developers and construction companies, who are the ones who pick and choose their Archaeology company.

First with the news:Tara protesters to be removed

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