First with the news:Tara protesters to be removed

abccormac

Jesjes wrote: »

Ideally, no.

When they found the wooden henge the only reason anyone knew was because the media caught wind of it (thankfully) otherwise it would have just been bulldozed.

There is such a thing as preservation by excavation where they remove the artifacts and store them safely ... but they're not doing it safely.

No one even knows how many new amazing finds have been bulldozed in the name of getting this road through.

Care to provide a single shred of evidence to back up this nonsense? Regardless of any media attention, archaeological best practice would have been followed in excavating the site at lismullen. Nothing at that particular site was in a state that warranted in situ preservation. There is a very comprehensive record of the "amazing new finds" that were bulldozed to create this road, one which will in due course be pulished, just like the publications of other archaeological excavations carried out on road schemes over the last decade or so.

Preservation by record is what archaeology is all about. ANY archaeological excavation is by its very nature destructive. The protestors at rath lugh have dug a tunnel through an archaeologically sensitive area, and built a camp with fires and other related activity on top of a protected monument. They are causing damage to the archaeological record in a way that in many ways is worse than that caused by the road. At least the N.R.A. excavates, records, studies and publishes the sites that roads pass over.

lostexpectation

abccormac wrote: »

Care to provide a single shred of evidence to back up this nonsense? Regardless of any media attention, archaeological best practice would have been followed in excavating the site at lismullen. Nothing at that particular site was in a state that warranted in situ preservation. There is a very comprehensive record of the "amazing new finds" that were bulldozed to create this road, one which will in due course be pulished, just like the publications of other archaeological excavations carried out on road schemes over the last decade or so.

Preservation by record is what archaeology is all about. ANY archaeological excavation is by its very nature destructive. The protestors at rath lugh have dug a tunnel through an archaeologically sensitive area, and built a camp with fires and other related activity on top of a protected monument. They are causing damage to the archaeological record in a way that in many ways is worse than that caused by the road. At least the N.R.A. excavates, records, studies and publishes the sites that roads pass over.

the current authority on tara said don't build a road through there at all, that's what the professionals said, then you don't to destruct everything, the archeology is in the landscape, you can't preserve it a basement of museum.


these so called professionals didn't double check where rath lugh was? there a joke of company

JIZZLORD

did anyone listen to the protestor twat on the last word on today fm.

Suaimhneach

http://www.livevideo.com/video/4819A5371FDA46BAB4A42CA1D60B2A1F/rathlugh-down-under.aspx

Watch that whole video if you can. If not, let it load and watch from the point where there is 16 minutes left and you tell me how that 40 ton digger is preservation by excavation... I dont disagree with your logic - I am saying that they are not even doing that!

JIZZLORD

http://www.ireland.com/newspaper/breaking/2008/0313/breaking40.htm

basically a daft eco warior type is hiding iin a hole in a tunnel beneath tara


edit, see above video.

while i admire the efforts of those who want to protect tara and such, some idealistic studenty types hiding in a whole is stupid.
i think the destruction of tara would be a bad thing but i hate indymedia types.

The Sparrow

JIZZLORD wrote: »

did anyone listen to the protestor twat on the last word on today fm.

Quote of the year from this idiot:

"I don't appreciate being treated like a child and neither does Squeak":D:D:D

abccormac

Jesjes wrote: »

http://www.livevideo.com/video/4819A5371FDA46BAB4A42CA1D60B2A1F/rathlugh-down-under.aspx

Watch that whole video if you can. If not, let it load and watch from the point where there is 16 minutes left and you tell me how that 40 ton digger is preservation by excavation... I dont disagree with your logic - I am saying that they are not even doing that!

Can't watch the video at work, but I can tell you that the use of machinery is often necessary on archaeological sites.

Suaimhneach

Well Cormac all I can tell you is that I dont disagree with your logic, but that what you talked about "Preservation by record is what archaeology is all about. ANY archaeological excavation is by its very nature destructive. " that they're not doing it that way - at all. They're just bulldozing what they can.

The Sparrow

Jesjes wrote: »

Well Cormac all I can tell you is that I dont disagree with your logic, but that what you talked about "Preservation by record is what archaeology is all about. ANY archaeological excavation is by its very nature destructive. " that they're not doing it that way - at all. They're just bulldozing what they can.

As opposed to having no archaeological qualifications and digging tunnels underneath the site that are held up with a tyre jack. That really sounds like the protesters are respecting the site.

Steve

George Hook just on the radio now giving a hard time to some English Hippie who was spokesman for the "group" live from the 'front line'.

Apparantly the woman has a bicycle D-lock around her neck connected to a car-jack holding up the roof of the tunnel.

Ste.phen

woooo232 wrote: »

As opposed to having no archaeological qualifications and digging tunnels underneath the site that are held up with a tyre jack. That really sounds like the protesters are respecting the site.

There's a question of scale there that you don't seem to be addressing.

Suaimhneach

Based on the video that you cant watch they spent 4-6 months making the tunnel. I dunno how that effects things but obviously the people who're living on the Rath are there to protect it and took every measure possible to protect it while knowing the risks of digging the tunnel.

Trojan911

Jesjes wrote: »

Well isnt it nice to see this thread twirl in an ever downward spiral. I think I'll refrain from commenting on any of the above posts - their qualities speak for themselves.

This thread was never in an upward spiral, in my opinion. When these protesters/antagonists/anarchists start to learn to protest in a peacefull manner then I might start listening to them.

Your linked website & further internet research only confirmed to me what I knew was going on in the first place. The quality within your site speaks also for itself.

lostexpectation

Trojan911 wrote: »

This thread was never in an upward spiral, in my opinion. When these protesters/antagonists/anarchists start to learn to protest in a peacefull manner then I might start listening to them.

Your linked website & further internet research only confirmed to me what I knew was going on in the first place. The quality within your site speaks also for itself.

what not peaceful about the protest, I don't think you understand the concept pf protest

The Sparrow

Igy wrote: »

There's a question of scale there that you don't seem to be addressing.

Jesjes wrote: »

Based on the video that you cant watch they spent 4-6 months making the tunnel. I dunno how that effects things but obviously the people who're living on the Rath are there to protect it and took every measure possible to protect it while knowing the risks of digging the tunnel.

You reckon?

A quote from Lisa "Squeak" Feeney from the Irish Times on Monday:

"We've built them with lump hammers, buckets and a string system," said Ms Feeney. "It's a labyrinth - a lot of the work was done by night over the last couple of months. Security hasn't really noticed because we've been bringing out bags of sand and dumping it nearby. Real Shawshank Redemption stuff."

Dumping it nearby??? Real Shawshank Redemption stuff? Yeah it sounds like it is a pretty extensive tunneling system that cannot be doing the site any good. They sound like idiots who think that they are in a movie or something.

Rovi

stevec wrote: »

George Hook just on the radio now giving a hard time to some English Hippie who was spokesman for the "group" live from the 'front line'.

Apparantly the woman has a bicycle D-lock around her neck connected to a car-jack holding up the roof of the tunnel.

I loved how George asked him where he lives in Ireland and he waffled about on about living "on the rath"; and when George asked him if he had given up his job to be there, he got more vague waffle. :rolleyes:

Just heard on the radio that their court case got rejected too.
(open to correction on that, I heard it in the background of a noisy environment)

Dr Strange

woooo232 wrote: »

"I don't appreciate being treated like a child and neither does Squeak":D:D:D

Sounds like a pet gerbil.

Sarky

What I find most interesting about the whole fiasco is that whenever I've heard any lecturer in archaeology or Irish history in NUIG get angry and ranty about it, they're always most angry at the hippies who are claiming to protect the site. I wouldn't mind knowing how much damage has been done to Tara by well-meaning hemp sandals stomping around digging holes around it and such...

Suaimhneach

To clarify, its not my site.

Steve

Rovi wrote: »

I loved how George asked him where he lives in Ireland and he waffled about on about living "on the rath"; and when George asked him if he had given up his job to be there, he got more vague waffle. :rolleyes:

Yep, didn't have much to say about what he was "protecting" either - other than something about the pyramids in egypt.

Dr Strange

Rovi wrote: »

Just heard on the radio that their court case got rejected too.
(open to correction on that, I heard it in the background of a noisy environment)

Yes you are right. Here it is from RTÉ:

Injunction to stop Rath Lugh work refused

Thursday, 13 March 2008 16:59
The High Court has refused to grant an injunction stopping works near the Rath Lugh national monument on the new M3 motorway.

Peadar Ó Ceallaigh, a member of the Rath Lugh Direct Action Camp, had sought the injunction on the basis that there were breaches of the preservation order on the monument.

However, Ms Justice Mary Lafoy ruled that there was no evidence before her that there had been any breach of the National Monuments Act.

She also ruled that he had no legal standing to take action on behalf of anyone who may or may not be in a tunnel.

Meanwhile, a woman demonstrating against the M3 roadworks remains in a tunnel dug by protestors at Rath Lugh.

Supporters claim the woman is chained by the neck to a jack and any attempts to try and remove her will cause the tunnel to collapse.

Around 40 construction workers together with about ten gardaí remain at the scene, where a fence has been erected to prevent any further incursion by the protestors.

Following negotiations between the protestors and the fire chief, it has been agreed that no attempt will be made to try and remove the woman from the tunnel.

The tense stand off at the scene is continuing and is likely to do so for some hours.

A number of other protestors have chained themselves to overground obstacles at the scene.



Story from RTÉ News:
http://www.rte.ie/news/2008/0313/tara.html

http://www.rte.ie/news/2008/0313/tara.html

Rovi

Edited-
Too slow!

Thanks Preusse

Dr Strange

Rovi wrote: »

Edited-
Too slow!

Thanks Preusse

cornbb

Well, there goes the "she's upholding the law" argument. Now some garda will be forced to remove her by some court order, putting both their lives at risk, and the real ugly stuff will begin which is probably exactly what she wanted to happen all along. I hope she's happy.

kowloon

As long as it's recorded properly it shouldn't matter much.
Question is, would the motorway construction be stopped if something of true note was found?

seamus

Now they should come with fun ways of convincing her to come out, things that they can legally throw down the hole.

Stink bombs? Non-lethal snakes? Spiders?

lostexpectation

kowloon wrote: »

As long as it's recorded properly it shouldn't matter much.
Question is, would the motorway construction be stopped if something of true note was found?

the whole area is of true note, thats the point

Trojan911

lostexpectation wrote: »

what not peaceful about the protest, I don't think you understand the concept pf protest

We will just watch this space then.... Do you honestly think this will end peacfully?

event

so that woman is now breaking the law?

this is correct, yes?

kowloon

lostexpectation wrote: »

the whole area is of true note, thats the point

It's going ahead anyway, my point is if they find something unique after they've started will it be too late to stop?
If I was planning a road I would stay away from finds rich areas based on that risk.

Also, some of the Archaeology companies are less moral than others and will plough through areas to the construction deadlines without doing the job properly.
Taking it slow and doing it properly doesn't promote new contracts with the developers and construction companies, who are the ones who pick and choose their Archaeology company.

abccormac

Jesjes wrote: »

Well Cormac all I can tell you is that I dont disagree with your logic, but that what you talked about "Preservation by record is what archaeology is all about. ANY archaeological excavation is by its very nature destructive. " that they're not doing it that way - at all. They're just bulldozing what they can.

Again, Do you have a single shred of evidence to back up these allegations? Or are you just spouting nonsense? I have worked on a number of excavations on NRA projects, though not this particular one. I have worked for the company which is carrying out the excavations on that project. And I can assure you that what you are alleging is simply not true.

abccormac

kowloon wrote: »

As long as it's recorded properly it shouldn't matter much.
Question is, would the motorway construction be stopped if something of true note was found?

It's happened before with the viking site at woodstown, but it will not happen in this case. The new sites which have been discovered along the route of the road are either not important enough or in a good enough state of preservation to make anything other than preservation by record worthwile.

kowloon

abccormac wrote: »

It's happened before with the viking site at woodstown, but it will not happen in this case. The new sites which have been discovered along the route of the road are either not important enough or in a good enough state of preservation to make anything other than preservation by record worthwile.

Something could turn up that the test treches missed, as unlikely as that might be.

lostexpectation

abccormac wrote: »

Again, Do you have a single shred of evidence to back up these allegations? Or are you just spouting nonsense? I have worked on a number of excavations on NRA projects, though not this particular one. I have worked for the company which is carrying out the excavations on that project. And I can assure you that what you are alleging is simply not true.

they didn't double check the position of the monument case closed.

lostexpectation

abccormac wrote: »

It's happened before with the viking site at woodstown, but it will not happen in this case. The new sites which have been discovered along the route of the road are either not important enough or in a good enough state of preservation to make anything other than preservation by record worthwile.

they are imporant because tara is important did you not read the links to the discovery project a few pages back.

darkman2

Protestor chains herself into M3 underground tunnel
13/03/2008 - 18:22:45
A woman remains chained in an underground tunnel at the site of the M3 in Co Meath this evening.

She was protesting at the construction site on the motorway near the Hill of Tara earlier today when she fled into the tunnel after a fellow-protestor was arrested.

Meanwhile, the group demonstrating against the motorway lost in their bid to get the High Court to grant an injunction to halt construction at the site earlier today.

Interestingly on RTE news they did not confirm this. Said it was 'claims' by the protesters.

phasers

does this mean more smelly hippies will come up to me on Grafton Street?

leave em there

cournioni

I really REALLY hate these hippie ****ers. Get jobs you bums.

Steve

seamus wrote: »

Now they should come with fun ways of convincing her to come out, things that they can legally throw down the hole.

Stink bombs? Non-lethal snakes? Spiders?

Surely there's a nearby farm with a tank full of slurry.:D

darkman2

Reports just received from Rath Lugh say that the Gardai (30) and Toll road workers (60) are attacking the Protectors of Tara. They have cut off the life support system to the tunnel knowing that there is a woman deep below ground. Her name is Squeak. :pac::pac: The front line camp is being dismantled using bolt croppers - this is exposing the tunnel entrance. Machinery has appeared and numerous toll road jeeps swarm around the edge of Rath Lugh. This outrageous act by the Gardai endangers the life of Squeak - the Gardai know this. We have previous examples of Garda incompetence in situations beyond their control that went wrong due to their stupidity - are we to see another example of their incompetence? This is timed to occur just before an Emergency Injunction is being sought to halt all works at Rath Lugh 10.30 in the Four Courts Dublin. The boundary to the National Monument of Rath Lugh seems to be about to be set by SIAC/Ferrovial toll road building crews and not by Irish Law or the Minister.
Who is in command of this stupid plan? Did the Minister sanction this attack on the peaceful Protectors of Tara? Is this the fullest expression of Operation Bedrock? How many Ferrovial and Senior Gardai are members of Opus Dei? Did the order to evacuate come from their Lismullin HQ?
All works on or near Rath Lugh must be stopped immediately until the life of Squeak is secured and a proper survey has been done and boundary lines clearly defined.

lol...that was a letter to the minister apparently.....

Dr Strange

Ah, it's not a gerbil..Squeak's a mole.

darkman2

2 questions (since she will be there for 'several months' and all).




1. How is she going to clean herself.........?




2. I take it they did not have time to build a Jacks in the tunnel?



oh dear.........should have thought of these things first.......gonna be some stench in that part of Meath soon enough

Terry

Why didn't they just excavate the area before the road was due to be built?

ScumLord

Preusse wrote: »

Ah, it's not a gerbil..Squeak's a mole.

For the cops?

That videos some laugh, as much as I'd like to see the area around the hill of Tara preserved, those ****ers deserve to be bulldozed.

abccormac

Terry wrote: »

Why didn't they just excavate the area before the road was due to be built?

They did. The road passes next to rath lugh, it doesn't go through it.

Steve

darkman2 wrote: »

lol...that was a letter to the minister apparently.....

Yep its all on their forum here:
http://savetaravalley.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=13

Here's the nutters original wording before he sent it to Gormless.

Who was/is in command of this stupid plan? Did the Minister sanction this attack on the peaceful Protectors of Tara? Is this the fullest expression of Operation Bedrock? How many Ferrovial and Senior Gardai are members of Opus Dei? Did the order to evacuate come from their Lismullin HQ?

All works on or near Rath Lugh must be stopped immediately until the life of Squeak is secured and a proper survey has been done and boundary lines clearly defined. It was only because of word from the Minister of Justice that prevented them the toll pirates from stopping the supply of oxygen to the enclosures beneath.

Fascism by Governance is the current style being used by the team of the 'most devious of them all'. Their invisible masters in Lismullin Opus Dei HQ have nothing to say; in fact they pretend to not even exist. This parallels the total absence of ministers from Ireland at this time of attack on our Heritage at Rath Lugh by gardai without numbers on their shoulders.
We had to wait until the Fire Department arrived when they demanded that the Police and the Construction Workers cease such stupid activities as trying to take Squeak out from the tunnel by force. Maybe the Fire Service has integrity and is not controlled by the hidden government...

orbital83

Three words for these people in Tara: GET A JOB

This country needs to become more competitive and that includes transport. This motorway is badly needed not only for competitive reasons but to increase safety on the existing congested poor-quality single-carriageway road.

The monuments are being preserved by record. Now we need to get on with our lives. As a country we have been stuck in the past long enough.

Rowley Birkin QC

It's on Prime Time now. What a shower of wasters.

That tunnel looks sturdy enough, drive a few A40's over it and see what happens methinks. One less person to take my tax dollars in future I'd say.

Denis Irwin

To the people in Tara: Get a f***ing job and life.

I also notice that any time you hear any of these protesters on the Radio or TV they all seem to have English accents.

Also how many fire engines/ambulances are at the scene were your woman has put herself in the tunnel. An ambulance or a Fire Engine which could be needed elsewhere such as a traffic accident or a house fire

c0rk3r

She has a fail safe system hooked up so that if anyone tries to remove her by force she'll collapse the tunnel. Some hydraulic pump, a string and two pieces of wood. Nutter