First with the news:Tara protesters to be removed

emoKILLER

Jesjes wrote: »

Take your trolling elsewhere emoKiller.

FISH ON!!!

im not trolling, the first part of my last post is true, i was beging sarcastic for the last part!!

ask the people of meath if they want the road.

You should educate yourself, the road is not going through the actual hill, therefore it is not being destroyed

The road is going to be built eventualy, that woman should get out of the tunnel before she kills herself and sombody who is trying to save her. what is more valuable, human life, of a mound of earth?

Suaimhneach

Trojan911 wrote: »

Well, there are those who will protest in a peacful, non violent, non dangerous way to get their message across & then there is Rent-A-Mob, who thrive on violence, media attention & provocation. They are not really in it for the main cause of the protest in my experience & opinion.

This latest display of media grabbing lunacy falls in the latter.

Again, for over FIVE YEARS this has been going on. These same people who are taking these actions have been peacefully, non violently and non dangerously protesting for a looooong time.

Now, as for your Rent-A-Mob comment, actually think about the situation. These people are working at this issue for over five years - they've tried all you've suggested. There is no record of violence, as you suggest. Doing something to get the attention of the media is not to be frowned upon - how else are they supposed to let the people of Ireland even know whats going on. Arguably the worst thing that has happened as far as you can be concerned is this girl in the tunnel and she serves her purpose quite well.

The media are looking and they arent ploughing Rath Lugh.

Now maybe this is not the BEST way to fight against the Government (as many people have stated and I have not disagreed, I have merely said consider what she is doing and WHY she is doing it) but it is working. And it is a hell of a lot more than most would do.

dloob

Well I did a search on Rath Lugh and it's all clear now.
Opus Dei are building the road in a covert attack on the celtic earth goddess of Tara. :eek:

linky

Suaimhneach

emoKILLER wrote: »

ask the people of meath if they want the road.

You should educate yourself, the road is not going through the actual hill, therefore it is not being destroyed

The road is going to be built eventualy, that woman should get out of the tunnel before she kills herself and sombody who is trying to save her. what is more valuable, human life, of a mound of earth?

FFS! You need to educate YOURSELF!! No one claims its going through the hill! Do your research before you start spouting on.

And the whole world, the whole of Ireland have a right to Tara, not just MEATH! Dont be so disgustingly selfish.

The woman in the tunnel has been debated already - maybe she should get out but MAYBE the people of Ireland should open their eyes to this serious issue.


UPDATE:
By 2 pm
They are trying to set a new fence before Justice Laffoy makes a decision on Rath Lugh. This is knowingly breaking the Law, they are criminal and corrupt.
It is reported from Rath Lugh – “From the protest site: things have calmed down. The Fire Brigade are
well gone, will not make any attempt to remove the girl from the tunnel. A tent will be erected at the entrance so that one other protester can communicate with her. No effort was or will be made to remove her. There are still 5 other people locked on with cement. There is a small digger and steam roller as well as 18 jeeps at the site. Nothing is driving on the esker.
There are flood lights being brought in. They are tripping over media and cameras! Court case being heard again at 2pm.”
From savetara.com

Squeak is still in the tunnel at Rath Lugh, 2:20pm


/ends

This issue is real people - try seeing the bigger picture.

I think I'll stop debating with people who are as stubborn as I am. Lets all just agree to disagree and maybe we'll come out of this we a re-routed road to keep you happy (lets face it that'd be faster/cheaper/easier) and a protected landscape of Tara/Skreen/and the Valley.

cornbb

Jesjes wrote: »

Debating the rights and wrongs of what she is doing gets us no where. Maybe it is wrong, but if she doesnt do something like that, if none of the protectors do anything, then there is no one doing any means to get to any end. Again I ask, what else would you have us do?

Saying "Give up" is not an option. Some of us actually care about our hertiage, our land, and our right to have it free of toll road and corrupt governments.

Of course it gets us somewhere, thats the whole point of this. I agree that this monument should be preserved, this woman's actions are wrong regardless of that! I applaud anyone who exercises their right to protest, but she has gone way, way too far and is resorting to radical, selfish, dangerous tactics simply because she hasn't gotten her way. Her actions are under fire here, not her cause.

ScumLord wrote: »

They're is no treat to life by rerouting the road. It would probably create more jobs if anything.

So effectively saying "I'm putting myself in a position whereby you'll be forced to kill me if I can't have my way" is an acceptable way to get things done now? Great. You do realise that thats what this woman is doing?

dloob

Jesjes wrote: »

FFS! You need to educate YOURSELF!! No one claims its going through the hill! Do your research before you start spouting on.

Well except the protesters always going on about save the hill of Tara as if the motorway was going over it.
They know it's more emotive that way and people who hear about in passing will think the actual hill is involved.

Skilled in propaganda are these hippies

Dyr

cornbb wrote: »

Of course it gets us somewhere, thats the whole point of this. I agree that this monument should be preserved, this woman's actions are wrong regardless of that! I applaud anyone who exercises their right to protest, but she has gone way, way too far and is resorting to radical, selfish, dangerous tactics simply because she hasn't gotten her way.



So effectively saying "I'm putting myself in a position whereby you'll be forced to kill me if I can't have my way" is an acceptable way to get things done now? Great. You do realise that thats what this woman is doing?

Take a look at what happened to wood quay, if you're playing by the rules against the people who are supposed to enforce the rules then you're usually screwed.

:pac:< Madness? this. is. TARAAAAA!!

Suaimhneach

cornbb wrote: »

Of course it gets us somewhere, thats the whole point of this. I agree that this monument should be preserved, this woman's actions are wrong regardless of that! I applaud anyone who exercises their right to protest, but she has gone way, way too far and is resorting to radical, selfish, dangerous tactics simply because she hasn't gotten her way. Her actions are under fire here, not her cause.



So effectively saying "I'm putting myself in a position whereby you'll be forced to kill me if I can't have my way" is an acceptable way to get things done now? Great. You do realise that thats what this woman is doing?

CornBB, you are not wrong - but what else would you do in this situation?

IF it were not for the actions of this woman they would have been able to continue with work today therefore making any action the court makes possibly invalid.

She could have just saved Rath Lugh.

Steve

Jesjes wrote: »

Our entire history stems from this one place.

News just in:
"Sacred site destroyed by vandals. Vandals were caught red-handed digging tunnels through an archaeological site and may have already destroyed thousands of years of heritage and culture"

(This is based on the interview with one of the tunnel rats yesterday on newstalk)

cornbb

Bambi wrote: »

Take a look at what happened to wood quay, if you're playing by the rules against the people who are supposed to enforce the rules then you're usually screwed.

:pac:< Madness? this. is. TARAAAAA!!

So "lower yourself to their level or worse" is the way to go?

Suaimhneach

Folks, there is no easy answer. But the fact of the matter is this: the road needs to be re routed away from the whole landscape and complex of Tara.

If this thread is any indication to the confusion, level of mis-education on the issue and severe disregard of our heritage that is going on in Ireland - then I hope there are more than just me trying to defend the actions of those on Tara right now defending her.

It would be a shame if the media were to take the fact that the hole was dug and talk about that - than talk about the reason WHY it was dug, and in effect - what it has quite possibly done - ie. given us enough time to see if an injunction will go through.

Rovi

These are the lads for the job-
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tunnel_rat

cornbb

Jesjes wrote: »

CornBB, you are not wrong - but what else would you do in this situation?

Thats a difficult question. I can't speculate on what I would do, but I know I would give up before resorting to this woman's actions

Jesjes wrote: »

It would be a shame if the media were to take the fact that the hole was dug and talk about that - than talk about the reason WHY it was dug, and in effect - what it has quite possibly done - ie. given us enough time to see if an injunction will go through.

I don't think a thorough understanding of the surrounding issues is required to form a valid opinion that her actions are wrong. You're focusing on the cause here, the cause is all well and good but what she is doing is childish and counterproductive.

Suaimhneach

Rovi wrote: »

These are the lads for the job-
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tunnel_rat

Great Rovi, you are suggesting we send these in:

Whenever troops would uncover a tunnel, Tunnel Rats were sent in to kill any buried enemy and to plant explosives to destroy the tunnels. A Tunnel Rat was equipped with only a semiautomatic M1911 (.45 caliber) pistol and a flashlight, although most tunnel rats were allowed to choose another pistol to arm themselves with.

If thats not trolling I dunno what is.

Seriously, if this is an indication to the mentality of the Irish we are truly screwed.

ScumLord

cornbb wrote: »

So effectively saying "I'm putting myself in a position whereby you'll be forced to kill me if I can't have my way" is an acceptable way to get things done now? Great. You do realise that thats what this woman is doing?

Gandi did it, it's peacefull protest. Would you rather see her blow the place up?

That's how strongly she feels about it. Are you really willing to kill for a road?

Suaimhneach

cornbb wrote: »

Thats a difficult question. I can't speculate on what I would do, but I know I would give up before resorting to this woman's actions



I don't think a thorough understanding of the surrounding issues is required to form a valid opinion that her actions are wrong. You're focusing on the cause here, the cause is all well and good but what she is doing is childish and counterproductive.

If your only point is that what she is doing is wrong and on several occasions I have said I don't disagree AND if you insist on missing my point that if the cause is good and waht she is doing is wrong but that these are a means to an end then maybe its not such a bad thing, then I dunno what else to say!

SheroN

ScumLord wrote: »

That's how strongly she feels about it. Are you really willing to kill for a road?

Yes.

is_that_so

ScumLord wrote: »

Gandi did it, it's peacefull protest. Would you rather see her blow the place up?

That's how strongly she feels about it. Are you really willing to kill for a road?

There are also people in the Middle East who feel so strongly about their own beliefs that will gladly blow up as many people as they can to show their faith. Ultimately it comes down to cold logic versus misguided "perceived reality". I personally can see very little of the former at work here.

lostexpectation

woooo232 wrote: »

Thankfully according to the 1 o'clock news on RTE she has been arrested so hopefully is on her way to jail.

@jesjes... I googled Rath Lugh like you suggested but all I found was websites saying how terrible it is that it may be damaged by the road but none saying why it is so important. Why don't you tell us what exactly is so important about this monument?

as said tara is not just the hill rath lugh is tara

http://www.nuigalway.ie/archaeology/Tara_M3.html

listen to the country expert on tara say that on pat kenny on monday he said the road should never been taken through the skryne valley (streaming audio of interview http://www.savetara.com/Audio/TodayPK031008.html)

http://www.discoveryprogramme.ie/controller?action=stories_browse&id=1081&gid=55

n addition, there has been a growing appreciation that the Hill of Tara itself is just the dominant element of a wider surrounding landscape of related ritual and settlement sites, which seems to extend from Ringlestown Rath to the west, along the Riverstown linear earthwork to Rathmiles to the north, and onwards to Rath Lugh and Skreen to the east.


letter where gormley admits the archeolgoical services consultant got the position of the monument wrong

RE: REP1629/JG/07

Dear Dr. NÃ* Bhrolcháin,


I have been asked by Mr. John Gormley, T.D., Minister for the
Environment, Heritage and Local Government to refer further to your
recent correspondence in relation to Rath Lugh.

My Department has investigated your complaint and I am pleased to be in
a position to assure you that top-soil stripping only took place within
the land-take for the road. Rath Lugh is outside the land-take although
clearly the monument is quite close to the perimeter of the road take.

I should point out that the location of the monument at Rath Lugh is
shown incorrectly on the Record of Monuments and Places (RMP) map. The
location is, in fact, closer to the M3 than shown. Earlier this year,
following discussions with the Department and the National Museum of
Ireland, the NRA and Meath County Council commissioned a detailed
topographic survey in order to confirm its precise location in relation
the M3. The survey confirmed that the monument is approximately 20m east
of the motorway fence line. Special measures are being put in place to
ensure that the monument is not under-mined or endangered in any way
during construction or when the road comes into operation.

In light of the above, the previous temporary fence line on the Lands
Made Available boundary has been removed and a new temporary fence line
has been erected approximately 10m inside the Lands Made Available
boundary and surrounding the esker base. The monument, then, will be
over 30m from the motorway carriageway.

Further works, carried out on in this area on Friday 31 August,
consisted of the excavation of 2 geotechnical test trenches to examine
the nature of the geological deposits to inform the design of the
boundary treatment of the road at the end of the esker. The trenches
were excavated in the middle of the landtake for the M3 and posed no
danger to the monument. These works were monitored by the
archaeological consultants for the construction phase of the M3 scheme.

I can assure you that all works being carried out in this area are
within the landtake for the M3 motorway.

I trust this clarifies the matter for you.


Yours sincerely,


____________
Eddie Kiernan,
Private Secretary

demspey claims that since 2001 they've been planning this road and it has gone through the correct process but they only double checked the position of the monuments last year after been told they were too close, now it might be outside the road take but they can't claim to protecting a national monument by undermining and building a concrete wall so vibration don't damage it, that's not protection. that's to hell or to connaught

Mr. CooL ICE

Jesjes wrote: »

If this thread is any indication to the confusion, level of mis-education on the issue and severe disregard of our heritage that is going on in Ireland - then I hope there are more than just me trying to defend the actions of those on Tara right now defending her.

Thats probably because the majority of people disregard that which is not worth regarding (in their opinions). If we are all so uneducated and ill-informed, then please explain to us why we should give a crap

lostexpectation

cornbb wrote: »

Thats a difficult question. I can't speculate on what I would do, but I know I would give up before resorting to this woman's actions



I don't think a thorough understanding of the surrounding issues is required to form a valid opinion that her actions are wrong. You're focusing on the cause here, the cause is all well and good but what she is doing is childish and counterproductive.

how about the contractors not bulldoze the esker, agree or not.

Steve

Apparently the protest is not against the government after all.
Here is the rest of the update that Jesjes 'forgot' to post.

Rath Lugh 13-03-08
Early Thursday morning -
Many Security men, 30 Gardai and 60 Toll road workers attacked the Protectors of Tara on Rath Lugh. They attempted to cut off the life support system to the tunnel knowing that there is a woman deep below ground. Her name is Squeak. The front line camp was dismantled using bolt croppers - this exposed the tunnel entrance. Machinery appeared and numerous toll road jeeps swarmed around the edge of Rath Lugh. This outrageous act by the Gardai endangered the life of Squeak - the Gardai know this. We have previous examples of Garda incompetence in situations beyond their control that went wrong due to their stupidity - are we seeing another example of their incompetence? This was timed to occur just before an Emergency Injunction that was to be sought to halt all works at Rath Lugh 10.30 in the Four Courts Dublin. The boundary to the National Monument of Rath Lugh was being set by SIAC/Ferrovial toll road building crews and not by Irish Law or the Minister.

Who was/is in command of this stupid plan? Did the Minister sanction this attack on the peaceful Protectors of Tara? Is this the fullest expression of Operation Bedrock? How many Ferrovial and Senior Gardai are members of Opus Dei? Did the order to evacuate come from their Lismullin HQ?
All works on or near Rath Lugh must be stopped immediately until the life of Squeak is secured and a proper survey has been done and boundary lines clearly defined. It was only because of word from the Minister of Justice that prevented them the toll pirates from stopping the supply of oxygen to the enclosures beneath.

Fascism by Governance is the current style being used by the team of the 'most devious of them all'. Their invisible masters in Lismullin Opus Dei HQ have nothing to say; in fact they pretend to not even exist. This parallels the total absence of ministers from Ireland at this time of attack on our Heritage at Rath Lugh by gardai without numbers on their shoulders.
We had to wait until the Fire Department arrived when they demanded that the Police and the Construction Workers cease such stupid activities as trying to take Squeak out from the tunnel by force. Maybe the Fire Service has integrity and is not controlled by the hidden government...

Why do the Protectors of Tara have to hold the security, gardai and Ferrovial/Siac toll road workers back from destroying the tunnel at Rath Lugh? To save a life – Squeak.

Heather was arrested – and released

13:16 13-3-08
Heather has just been on the phone to me and says that she has been released from garda custody. She was arrested and taken away from Rath Lugh by gardai without numbers. She was charged with an offence under the the Housing Miscellaneous Act because she told the gardai - "you are rapists". She was referring to the nature of the attack by the gardai and toll pirates to destroying a National Monument before a court hearing seeking an injunction. She has to stay away from Lismullin and Rath Lugh and re-appear in court on 6 April.

She was is good form and on her way into Dublin to support Peadar Ó Ceallaigh who is asking Ms Justice Mary Lafoy at the High Court to stop the destruction at Rath Lugh. I gave her as much a report as I could and sent her my best wishes

By 2 pm
They are trying to set a new fence before Justice Laffoy..........

Words fail me.

Edit: Source: http://savetaravalley.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=13

Suaimhneach

LordChessington wrote: »

Thats probably because the majority of people disregard that which is not worth regarding (in their opinions). If we are all so uneducated and ill-informed, then please explain to us why we should give a crap

Taken from the link given above on the Discovery Programme.

1. It would be hard to overstate the national and international importance of Tara.

2. The Hill of Tara is only one element of a wider related archaeological landscape, the additional richness of which is continually being further revealed.

3. The Discovery Programme, of course, welcomes the development of our national infrastructure but is occasionally disappointed when, even in good faith, a major cultural asset is depleted by such development.

4. We would assert that, in the event of any impingement on such an extremely important asset, the very least that can be expected is that the highest possible standard of archaeological investigation and mitigation be deployed.

Dr Brian Lacey

Chief Executive Officer

The Discovery Programme

Those, and other reasons I have given in this thread are good enough to "give a crap".

It is funny (well, sad really) that our society has to be convinced that we have something of value worth saving...

Suaimhneach

stevec wrote: »

Apparently the protest is not against the government after all.
Here is the rest of the update that Jesjes 'forgot' to post.



Words fail me.

I did not "Forget" to post. I chose not to post the whole thing because I didnt want to have what will now be fired at me also to fight against. It is not an easy corner to be in.

(Apologies for double post)

DubLegs

sorry to butt in on this now but i just wondering if some one can clear something up.

The news is saying the woman is trapped - but has she trapped herself and can free herself at any time or has become trapped through no fault of her own.
also heard on the news reports saying the woman has supplies and food is this true!

Mr. CooL ICE

Jesjes wrote: »

Taken from the link given above on the Discovery Programme.



Those, and other reasons I have given in this thread are good enough to "give a crap".

It is funny (well, sad really) that our society has to be convinced that we have something of value worth saving...

It doesn't explain why the area is so treasured. Just because it is old means it can't be touched I'm still completely puzzled why people are getting worked up by this.

Assuming the road plans stay as they are and the road is built over whatever the hell it is, what difference will it make to us?

Suaimhneach

DubLegs wrote: »

sorry to butt in on this now but i just wondering if some one can clear something up.

The news is saying the woman is trapped - but has she trapped herself and can free herself at any time or has become trapped through no fault of her own.
also heard on the news reports saying the woman has supplies and food is this true!

She voluntarily went into the tunnel. She has supplies to stay alive. She is not trapped.

Steve

Jesjes wrote: »

I did not "Forget" to post. I chose not to post the whole thing because I didnt want to have what will now be fired at me also to fight against. It is not an easy corner to be in.

You are looking for support for this - I would say it's pretty relevant.

At what point were you going to divulge this to a possible supporter.

The Sparrow

Toll Pirates?? Protectors? Opus Dei Fascists?? :eek:

You seriously couldn't make this nonsense up if you tried.

@Jesjes... Whatever about the rights or wrongs of the new road you can't seriously support people who use such ridiculous terms?? Can you???!

Oh and the name of this great protector of democracy is Squeak... Squeak FFS

Suaimhneach

LordChessington wrote: »

It doesn't explain why the area is so treasured. Just because it is old means it can't be touched I'm still completely puzzled why people are getting worked up by this.

Assuming the road plans stay as they are and the road is built over whatever the hell it is, what difference will it make to us?

Do you actually mean you dont understand the improtance of the Seat of the High Kings... the place where the Fianna faught... all of those things we learn in school (I think a lot of them are considered myth rather than historical) and the fact that this is where *literally* the ancestors of the Irish lived and thrived for thousands of years has no baring on the importance of this place?