Guinness - the two-part pour. Why, exactly?

barclay2 · 23-02-2008 06:40PM #1

I'm a big guinness fan, it's what i drink in the pub/clubs etc. I love watching it settle, i love its whole appearance, i love the taste and the texture....i love everything about it really.

But it's occurred to me, i dont actually know the reason for the two-part pour. I mean the precise reason for it. Can anyone tell me what it is?

biko · 23-02-2008 06:51PM

Draught Guinness is served cool with the beer line run through a cooler to chill the liquid to the required temperature. Due to the foaming action of the nitrogen, it requires a "double pour", where the pint is 3/4 filled, allowed to settle and then topped up to the full pint. Guinness has made a virtue of this wait with advertising campaigns such as "good things come to those who wait" and "it takes 119.53 seconds to pour the perfect pint". Following the settling of the initial pour, the pint is finished to the top of the glass by pushing the tap forward. The flow produced by this method is slower and thus helps create a firmer and longer lasting head on the pint.

Xavi6 · 23-02-2008 06:55PM

Food & Drink forum FTW

FunkZ · 23-02-2008 07:49PM

I wouldn't mind some now!

Kold · 23-02-2008 08:19PM

A Beamish or Murphys for me please..

Boston · 23-02-2008 08:22PM

biko wrote: »

Draught Guinness is served cool with the beer line run through a cooler to chill the liquid to the required temperature. Due to the foaming action of the nitrogen, it requires a "double pour", where the pint is 3/4 filled, allowed to settle and then topped up to the full pint. Guinness has made a virtue of this wait with advertising campaigns such as "good things come to those who wait" and "it takes 119.53 seconds to pour the perfect pint". Following the settling of the initial pour, the pint is finished to the top of the glass by pushing the tap forward. The flow produced by this method is slower and thus helps create a firmer and longer lasting head on the pint.

Damn you. The pub is right over there...

mikemac · 23-02-2008 08:23PM

Can I hijack this thread?

In the local Tesco there are two kinds of Guinness cans. One is black and has Guinness Draught on it.
And the other has an old fashioned logo on it and says Guinness Stout.

Are these the same things in different packaging?

AARRRGH · 23-02-2008 08:28PM

I have all of Guinness's training manuals here. There's some mad stuff in them. Things like always massage the customers ego etc.

If I can be arsed later I'll go find their official (staff) explanation for the two part pour.

Nevyn · 23-02-2008 09:06PM

Stout does not have the widget in it and it stays the way it is in the can where as the draught has the widget that release the gas and it then settles when pours like a pint from a guinness tap.

JIZZLORD · 24-02-2008 01:12AM

biko wrote: »

Guinness has made a virtue of this wait with advertising campaigns such as "good things come to those who wait" and "it takes 119.53 seconds to pour the perfect pint".

pure marketing bs?

Senna · 24-02-2008 06:01AM

also, if it was done in just one pour, the head would be much larger.

Black Swan · 24-02-2008 06:04AM

Anticipation!

Agent Smith · 24-02-2008 06:33AM

He waits; that's what he does.
And I tell you what: tick followed tock followed tick followed tock followed tick...
Ahab says, 'I don't care who you are, here's to your dream.'
'Here's to you, Ahab'.
And the fat drummer hit the beat with all his heart.
Here's to waiting.

rubadub · 24-02-2008 07:15AM

micmclo wrote: »

Can I hijack this thread?

In the local Tesco there are two kinds of Guinness cans. One is black and has Guinness Draught on it.
And the other has an old fashioned logo on it and says Guinness Stout.

Are these the same things in different packaging?

No, they are both different recipes. It is not just gas that is different. The draught has only been out since 1959

faceman · 24-02-2008 10:18AM

i thought it had something to do with the head.

2Scoops · 24-02-2008 10:29AM

It's to identify American tourists - they will specifically ask for the 2-part pour.

Canis Lupus · 24-02-2008 12:04PM

Apart from making a head on the pint what's the big deal? Ah yes. Barman, top my pint up with foam. Does Guinness taste dramatically different if you just pour one pint straight? If you didn't see the barman pour the pint would you know?

Guinness tastes foul anyway imo.

green123 · 24-02-2008 12:27PM

Canis Lupus wrote: »

Does Guinness taste dramatically different if you just pour one pint straight? If you didn't see the barman pour the pint would you know?

no and no

JIZZLORD · 24-02-2008 12:37PM

i've had good guinness done with a single pour. wouldnt class it as being the best, but a lot of how the pint tastes depends on how clean the pipes are, too clean and it's bad, to dirty and it's bad. just as we've all had a pint of lager that tasted kinda metallic

faceman · 24-02-2008 12:46PM

JIZZLORD wrote: »

i've had good guinness done with a single pour. wouldnt class it as being the best, but a lot of how the pint tastes depends on how clean the pipes are, too clean and it's bad, to dirty and it's bad. just as we've all had a pint of lager that tasted kinda metallic

Dont guinness service their own pipes in the pubs to ensure best taste etc?

monosharp · 24-02-2008 01:16PM

barclay2 wrote: »

I'm a big guinness fan, it's what i drink in the pub/clubs etc. I love watching it settle, i love its whole appearance, i love the taste and the texture....i love everything about it really.

But it's occurred to me, i don't actually know the reason for the two-part pour. I mean the precise reason for it. Can anyone tell me what it is?

I've yet to find a nightclub on the face of this earth where the Guinness is even half palatable. (to a Guinness drinker)

I dub thy a liar Sir!

I don't know the scientific reason for the double pour but do you not notice yourself the difference in taste ?

I got a pint of the black stuff last night in the middle of Seoul (Korea). Poured the lot STRAIGHT (no angle) into a 3/4 pint glass, got a knife, knocked off the head, topped her up and handed it to me.

I love Korea, I love Korean food, I love Korean people ... but by God I miss Guinness.

Boston · 24-02-2008 01:57PM

monosharp wrote: »

I've yet to find a nightclub on the face of this earth where the Guinness is even half palatable. (to a Guinness drinker)

I dub thy a liar Sir!

Whelan's In Dublin used to do a decent pint back in the day, though I haven't been in years.

The Chessplayer · 24-02-2008 02:02PM

barclay2 wrote: »

I'm a big guinness fan, it's what i drink in the pub/clubs etc. I love watching it settle, i love its whole appearance, i love the taste and the texture....i love everything about it really.

But it's occurred to me, i dont actually know the reason for the two-part pour. I mean the precise reason for it. Can anyone tell me what it is?

The Chessplayer is also partial to a pint of plain

Stirling · 24-02-2008 02:25PM

Ok be warned I used to work for Guinness so this will very much be the company line! The idea behind the two part pour is completely because of the gas in the beer.

To begin with there are three main variants of Guinness:

Guinness Foreign Extra Stout - Known as FES - has an alcohol volume of 7.5%and was first brewed in 1801 making it the only one of the three beers to be brewed during the lifetime of Arthur Guinness. It is primarily served in bottles but is available in cans in some foreign markets. It is a carbonated beer contributing to a bubbly head. Although the least well known in Ireland it is arguably the genune Guinness because of its age and the complexity of the flavour.

Guinness Extra Stout - Also known as Guinness Original in the UK this has an alcohol volume of 4.2% and was first brewed in 1821. Again it is served in bottles and is a carbonated beer with a bubbly head. It has a stronger taste than Guinness Draught even though they have the same alcohol content.

Guinness Draught - What people understand when they say Guinness despite the fact that it is less than half a century old being introduced in 1959 as part of the company's bicenterary celebrations. It is a nitrogenated beer, unlike the other two although it does have a certain amount of Carbon Dioxide present as a consequence of the fermentation process. It is this mixture of two gases that contributes to the two part pour.

The Two Part Pour - There are two lines, gas and beer, running into each Guinness Draught tap and on the first part of the pour the tap is bulled backwards to allow a free flowing mix of gas and beer to flow into the glass til it is 3/4 full. The seperation of the gases, or the settle, occurs as a consequence of the different atomic weights of the gases with the Nitrogen going to the top to form the head and the heavier carbon dioxide settlig through the beer. The 119.5 0r 119.53 seconds is not marketing hocus pocus but the time for this reaction to occur if the beer/gas mixture is properly set up and the barman has poured correctly. During the second part of the pour the tap is pushed forward and during this part the gas flow is reduced slightly so that there is fractionally more beer coming through. This has the effect of limiting the resettle which will occur if the tap is pulled back a secnd time.

There is a fractional, and this is very fractional, increase in bitterness if the tap is pulled back on both occasions or much greater increase if the pint is poured in one movement. Research has shown that the average consumer is unable to tell the difference between a good or a bad pint on the basis of taste alone and will judge this primarily on appearance and presentation. It is for this reason that so much effort and marketing is expended on the two part pour concept. It gives more to the idea of theatre that surrounds the ordering of a pint of Guinness.

As for the depth of the head this has more to do with temperature than it does with the pour and where the beer is too cold (any pub in Temple Bar!) it will have a smaller head and where too warm it will have an excessively large head.

gurramok · 24-02-2008 03:26PM

As long as the foamy bits stick to the inside of the glass after drinking, i know i have a good pint

Alanstrainor · 24-02-2008 06:39PM

Boston wrote: »

Whelan's In Dublin used to do a decent pint back in the day, though I haven't been in years.

+1 they do gorgeous pints, i've been going there the last few sundays and they've been fantastic!

Mint Sauce · 24-02-2008 06:47PM

had 6 or 7 pints of it last night, absoluty gougerious at the time, dont think i've ever experienced a single pour pint

machiavellianme · 24-02-2008 06:54PM

Stirling wrote: »

Ok be warned I used to work for Guinness so this will very much be the company line! The idea behind the two part pour is completely because of the gas in the beer.

To begin with there are three main variants of Guinness:

Guinness Foreign Extra Stout - Known as FES - has an alcohol volume of 7.5%and was first brewed in 1801 making it the only one of the three beers to be brewed during the lifetime of Arthur Guinness. It is primarily served in bottles but is available in cans in some foreign markets. It is a carbonated beer contributing to a bubbly head. Although the least well known in Ireland it is arguably the genune Guinness because of its age and the complexity of the flavour.

Guinness Extra Stout - Also known as Guinness Original in the UK this has an alcohol volume of 4.2% and was first brewed in 1821. Again it is served in bottles and is a carbonated beer with a bubbly head. It has a stronger taste than Guinness Draught even though they have the same alcohol content.

Guinness Draught - What people understand when they say Guinness despite the fact that it is less than half a century old being introduced in 1959 as part of the company's bicenterary celebrations. It is a nitrogenated beer, unlike the other two although it does have a certain amount of Carbon Dioxide present as a consequence of the fermentation process. It is this mixture of two gases that contributes to the two part pour.

The Two Part Pour - There are two lines, gas and beer, running into each Guinness Draught tap and on the first part of the pour the tap is bulled backwards to allow a free flowing mix of gas and beer to flow into the glass til it is 3/4 full. The seperation of the gases, or the settle, occurs as a consequence of the different atomic weights of the gases with the Nitrogen going to the top to form the head and the heavier carbon dioxide settlig through the beer. The 119.5 0r 119.53 seconds is not marketing hocus pocus but the time for this reaction to occur if the beer/gas mixture is properly set up and the barman has poured correctly. During the second part of the pour the tap is pushed forward and during this part the gas flow is reduced slightly so that there is fractionally more beer coming through. This has the effect of limiting the resettle which will occur if the tap is pulled back a secnd time.

There is a fractional, and this is very fractional, increase in bitterness if the tap is pulled back on both occasions or much greater increase if the pint is poured in one movement. Research has shown that the average consumer is unable to tell the difference between a good or a bad pint on the basis of taste alone and will judge this primarily on appearance and presentation. It is for this reason that so much effort and marketing is expended on the two part pour concept. It gives more to the idea of theatre that surrounds the ordering of a pint of Guinness.

As for the depth of the head this has more to do with temperature than it does with the pour and where the beer is too cold (any pub in Temple Bar!) it will have a smaller head and where too warm it will have an excessively large head.

What if its pushed forward in a single pour?

Sonnenblumen · 24-02-2008 07:07PM

Stirling - that was a great post, can't beat the inside line. Now if only Jim Figerty would spill the beans on how they get the figs into figrolls, two of Dublin's great mysteries will be solved.

Oh I forgot about Barney & Beaney........more!!!:D

The Chessplayer · 24-02-2008 09:29PM

machiavellianme wrote: »

What if its pushed forward in a single pour?

It would take all day. It doesn't come out as quickly when you push the tap forward.

The Chessplayer · 24-02-2008 09:49PM

monosharp wrote: »

I've yet to find a nightclub on the face of this earth where the Guinness is even half palatable. (to a Guinness drinker)

I dub thy a liar Sir!

I don't know the scientific reason for the double pour but do you not notice yourself the difference in taste ?

I got a pint of the black stuff last night in the middle of Seoul (Korea). Poured the lot STRAIGHT (no angle) into a 3/4 pint glass, got a knife, knocked off the head, topped her up and handed it to me.

I love Korea, I love Korean food, I love Korean people ... but by God I miss Guinness.

That is absolutely disgraceful. If I ever saw a barkeep doing that to my guinness I would smack him in the face with a glove.

The foreign extra stout is lovely. Takes a bit of getting used to first though. As for story about the nitrogenated Guinness - spot on! That Guinness ad where Tom Crean is pouring pints after his arctic explorations is historically inaccurate. It would be more likely that the Guinness he sold was bottled on-site from a barrel.

A lot of pubs these days don't even sell the Extra Stout which is a sorry state of affairs, because it's a quality drop. Try O'Haras stout, lovely stuff altogether, from the Carlow Brewing Company.

Guinness - the two-part pour. Why, exactly?

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