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Once saved always saved is a false doctrine..
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Those that believe "once saved always saved" is a false docterine.
Since it was written in Scripture.CommandoJack wrote: »risking seeming troll-ish... since when was it a doctrine? =/
But since that time, the doctrine that those who are truly saved cannot be lost is found in various places, e.g. Augustine, Calvin, the various Reformed confessions. All the Reformed Churches are supposed to believe it, but as you may know, many churches today no longer hold to their founding articles.
In Ireland, all the Irish Baptist churches hold to it; as do the Evangelical Presbyterians, Reformed Presbyterians, Free Presbyterians, the Brethren, many of the evangelical wings of the Presbyterian and C of I, and several smaller groups.0 -
Not sure.
You are not truely saved until you enure to the end. You may initially receive the Holy Spirit, and be as you call "saved", I would prefere to call this the "enlightement" or the "initial calling". Wo be tied if you receive this call ignore it thus fall back into the ways of the worldI'm glad that you have put the word "Saved" in inverted commas......because somebody who would "spit in the face of God" certainly NEVER was saved!!!:D They do worse, ie they put Christ to shame. Hebrews 6vs6.......once again I'm glad that you have put the word "saved" in inverted commas......because somebody who would "return like the dog to its vomit" certainly NEVER was saved!!!:D
Sins and iniquities up to the point of their initial calling, after that they will be more judged than the unsaved. Its up to those that received their initial calling to choose the narrow road that leads to salvation, if they fall back into sin again they are back on the wide road and will end up danmed!Heb 10:14-17 puts the issue (that the saved are saved forever) beyond all doubt:-
For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified. Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before,
This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.
Basically most churches have inherrited this poison off OSAS from John Calvan and not from the Bible. Again.......Eternal security implies a 'license' to sin without consequencesSince it was written in Scripture. In Ireland, all the Irish Baptist churches hold to it; as do the Evangelical Presbyterians, Reformed Presbyterians, Free Presbyterians, the Brethren, many of the evangelical wings of the Presbyterian and C of I, and several smaller groups.
If have diabetes or low blood sugar. If I eat something sweet I have a few minutes of pleasure followed by hours of headache, fatigue, and pain. I don't eat sweets because the price I pay afterwards is just too great. So it is with drunkenness, drug abuse, sexual sin, lying, cheating, stealing, outburst of anger, jealousy, envy, strife, etc. sin just isn't worth it. sin never pays and when left unrepentant will eventually lead to Death and spiritual danmnation and separation from God to both those that were Once Enlightened who Backslid and the unsaved.0 -
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Those that believe "once saved always saved" is a false docterine.CommandoJack wrote: »risking seeming troll-ish... since when was it (eternal security) a doctrine?Since it was written in Scripture.
But since that time, the doctrine that those who are truly saved cannot be lost is found in various places, e.g. Augustine, Calvin, the various Reformed confessions. All the Reformed Churches are supposed to believe it, but as you may know, many churches today no longer hold to their founding articles.
In Ireland, all the Irish Baptist churches hold to it; as do the Evangelical Presbyterians, Reformed Presbyterians, Free Presbyterians, the Brethren, many of the evangelical wings of the Presbyterian and C of I, and several smaller groups.
.......sounds like just about everybody except the 'catholic-type theology' churches (like Roman Catholics and Orthodox as well as some Anglicans and Lutherans) hold to OSAS!!!!:D
......so apparently, you still hold to a 'catholic-type theology' on this issue, RTDH????
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Hey JC. Even the elect can be deceived. Don't be one of them. "For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect." Mark 13:22. It is possible to draw back from the faith. All you have to do is believe a false doctrine like the Galatians or just give up acting in faith on God's Word and trust in your own righteousness. Paul talks about it to the Galatians. Starting in the Spirit and ending in the flesh.
Galatians 3:3
Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?
Habakkuk 2:4
Behold, his soul which is lifted up is not upright in him: but the just shall live by his faith.
Hebrews 10:38
Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.
Revelation 2:7
He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.
Revelation 2:10
Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.
Revelation 2:11
He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death.
Revelation 2:17
He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it.
Revelation 2:26
And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:
If your name is written in the book of life then how can it be possible for Jesus to blot it out for not over coming this world? See below:
Revelation 3:5
He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment, ;and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.
Blotted out of the book of life? Your argument is that if you are once saved (i.e. name written in the book of life) then you are always saved. Not according to Rev 3:5 your not. You need to overcome first.
Revelation 3:12
Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.
Revelation 3:21
To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.
Revelation 21:7
He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.
Revelation 12:11
And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.
While you are acting in faith on this side of eternity you are seen as absolutely saved in the eyes of God but you must keep that connection alive by continuing that action. Just like the way you need to keep a kettle plugged into the source of electricity for it to boil, once you disconnect it it will stop boiling. We are not sanctified wholly until we get over there, so until we get there we must keep acting in faith everyday. The promise is as thy day so shall thy strength be and today if you here is voice harden not your heart. It is always today, it is never tomorrow so while it is called today we must act on the promises of God. If we were once saved always saved then why would Paul need to write letters to Churches to admonish them and keep them on track? Why was it only after he could say that he had finished his course and kept the faith that there was a crown of righteousness laid up for him?
II Timothy 4:7-8
I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith: Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing.
You can’t love His appearing if you are not acting in faith and acting in faith is a daily action not a once off action. You stop acting in faith and you grieve the spirit away.
Genesis 6:3
And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man.
You can grieve the spirit.
Ephesians 4:30
And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.
Only sealed if you keep the connection of faith. God is faithful and will keep you, but you must trust in His Word. That’s what building on Jesus means. Building on a rock.
Demas was one of Paul’s fellow labourers but he fell away.
Philemon 1:24
Marcus, Aristarchus, Demas, Lucas, my fellowlabourers.
2 Timothy 4:10
For Demas hath forsaken me, having loved this present world, and is departed unto Thessalonica; Crescens to Galatia, Titus unto Dalmatia.
So keep the faith bro 0 -
Not sure.
Nope, I have gone through this with you before. The Catholic type theology on this issue is that one is "saved" at baptism and that they must endure to the end by following the traditions and teachings of the Roman Catholic Church........sounds like just about everybody except the 'catholic-type theology' churches (like Roman Catholics and Orthodox as well as some Anglicans and Lutherans) hold to OSAS!!!!:D
......so apparently, you still hold to a 'catholic-type theology' on this issue, RTDH????
I believe one is only "saved" through repentance and accepting Christ in faith and enduring to the end by obeying the Gospel. (2 Thessalonians 1vs8).0 -
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Those that believe "once saved always saved" is a false docterine.Soul Winner wrote: »While you are acting in faith on this side of eternity you are seen as absolutely saved in the eyes of God but you must keep that connection alive by continuing that action. Just like the way you need to keep a kettle plugged into the source of electricity for it to boil, once you disconnect it it will stop boiling.
......they saved ARE permanently 'plugged into the source'......by being saved and indwelt by the Holy Spirit!!!
.....and saved people ARE 'burning' to proclaim the Word of God.....to whomever will listen!!Soul Winner wrote: »We are not sanctified wholly until we get over there, so until we get there we must keep acting in faith everyday. The promise is as thy day so shall thy strength be and today if you here is voice harden not your heart. It is always today, it is never tomorrow so while it is called today we must act on the promises of God. If we were once saved always saved then why would Paul need to write letters to Churches to admonish them and keep them on track? Why was it only after he could say that he had finished his course and kept the faith that there was a crown of righteousness laid up for him?
....for the simple reason that Paul could ONLY get his reward in Heaven.....when he arrived in Heaven.....i.e. AFTER he died!!Soul Winner wrote: »II Timothy 4:7-8
I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith: Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing.
You can’t love His appearing if you are not acting in faith and acting in faith is a daily action not a once off action. You stop acting in faith and you grieve the spirit away.
.......of course the saved act in faith.......and live exemplary lives.....and DON'T live in open sin.....BUT they ARE sinners in sinful bodies nonetheless!!!
....the unsaved grieve God's Spirit.....and God was warning that His patience was about to run out with Mankind in Gen 6:3.....and Noah's Flood was the result!!Soul Winner wrote: »Genesis 6:3
And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man.
You can grieve the spirit.Soul Winner wrote: »Ephesians 4:30
And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.
Only sealed if you keep the connection of faith. God is faithful and will keep you, but you must trust in His Word. That’s what building on Jesus means. Building on a rock.
...."sealed unto the day of redemption"......sounds BOTH certain and permanent to me!!!!Soul Winner wrote: »Demas was one of Paul’s fellow labourers but he fell away.
Philemon 1:24
Marcus, Aristarchus, Demas, Lucas, my fellowlabourers.
2 Timothy 4:10
For Demas hath forsaken me, having loved this present world, and is departed unto Thessalonica; Crescens to Galatia, Titus unto Dalmatia.
Demas forsook PAUL......and NOT Jesus Christ !!!Soul Winner wrote: »So keep the faith bro
I will keep the faith.....why do you think that I strive for Jesus.....and take insults as compliments ......both on this thread....and the mega-thread on Creationism and prophecy???!!!
....and I have yet to see almost any other Christians defend their faith effectively against the Skeptics over on that thread......
.....or even come to my defence when the Skeptics advocated that Creationists should lose their jobs as practicing conventional scientists!!!0 -
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....for the simple reason that Paul could ONLY get his reward in Heaven.....when he arrived in Heaven.....i.e. AFTER he died!!
Yes and he had to keep the faith until then.....the unsaved grieve God's Spirit.....and God was warning that His patience was about to run out with Mankind in Gen 6:3.....and Noah's Flood was the result!!
God's Word is forever settled in heaven and His spirit can still be grieved. Not putting your faith in Him grieves Him the most not sin. He hates sin but loves the sinner. Sin is not the issue anymore because He dealt with that on the cross. It’s all about faith now not perfection. I know you are not implying that it is but saying that you accept Jesus once in your life is not going to pass muster with God. It should be done daily and when a circumstance in your life hits you that contradict God's promises then you must all the more grab hold of His promises by speaking them forth.
2 Corinthians 1:20
For all the promises of God in him are yea, and in him Amen, unto the glory of God by us.
The above verse gives us license to claim all God's promises if we need to.
Hebrews 11:1
Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
The above verse teaches that we substantiate God's promises by faith. They become reality through faith action in the promise being seized. No point in claiming His promise to heal you if you're not sick and no point in claiming the promise that He will provided if you have a healthy bank account and so on. The promise must be for something that you do not actually have in reality and when it is obtained by continued faith (i.e. healing for sickness and provision when needy etc) action in the promises for God that defies your circumstance. The verse below teaches this very thing.
Romans 8:24
...but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?"sealed unto the day of redemption"......sounds BOTH certain and permanent to me!!!!
It is, but my point is that you can slip away from it by ceasing the aforementioned trusting action in God's Word. This must be maintained daily until death.Demas forsook TIMOTHY......and NOT Jesus Christ !!!
He actually forsook the Apostle Paul and loved the world more than His calling to minister with Paul. It was Paul who wrote 2 Timothy not Timothy himself.I will keep the faith.....why do you think that I strive for Jesus.....and take insults as compliments ......both on this thread....and the mega-thread on Creationism and prophecy???!!!
A truly humble man does not look back to see if he was. I get that myself and couldn't care less what anyone thinks of me when it comes to Christianity. The world hated Jesus as well and we are no greater than the master.....and I have yet to see almost any other Christians defend their faith effectively against the Skeptics over on that thread......
.....or even come to my assistance when the Skeptics advocated that Creationists should lose their jobs as practicing conventional scientists!!!
That thread was going for years before I joined Boards, so for me to make a comment without actually reading all of it would be a bit rich of me. There’s over 400 pages of posts in that thread :eek: I have started it though and thought your opening arguments are very interesting and very well made. You obviously know what you are talking about when it comes to the subject. I've started a few threads of my own in the A+A forum itself and found out very quickly that I do not know enough (yet) about the subject to have a considered opinion. As Wicknight and others pointed out in those threads, to argue about evolution and science one must understand what they are first, I had to stand down because I ran out of material to support what I saying and no one else had any other input except for the pro-evolutionists, so I know how you feel there. But I do still have questions about evolution but I will not pretend to know what I’m talking about when I don’t. Need to get both sides of the argument straight before taking sides. I personally do not believe in evolution as being the process by which all living things derived. And that’s not because I’m a Christian. Even if I wasn’t a Christian I would still have the same questions about the theory of evolution. A lot of atheists seem to latch onto evolution as a club to bash religious people with more than because they really believe in it themselves.
And for what its worth. I don’t believe that Creationists should loose their jobs as conventional scientists simply because they are Creationists, they should loose them for being bad scientists as should non-Creationist scientists. So we would need to define what a Scientist is before we can adjudge someone as being a bad one. Pro evolutionist scientists seem to think that they have the corner on Science and that only if your theories gel with the established evolutionary idea then only then can they be accepted as good science. At least that seems to be the idea that comes across. But hey what do I know???0 -
Those that believe "once saved always saved" is a false docterine.
I agree with ALL of the above......AND from the moment they place their trust in Jesus Christ they are saved forever!!!Soul Winner wrote: »The saved haven't got any power in and of themselves to be saved. They need God to empower them by the indwelling of the Holy Spirit and that can only come when they trust in Him.Soul Winner wrote: »ohn 15:5
I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing
Literally nothing at all. We can't even have faith without Him. He even gives us the capacity to have faith.
.....once again I fully agree with you that without God we are nothing......but with God we are saved for eternity!!!!Soul Winner wrote: »Romans 12:3
For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.
It's what we do with that faith that’s important. We can either put it in Him or put it in ourselves or this world. That’s the only freedom we have.
....if we are saved we have unshakable faith in Jesus Christ!!Soul Winner wrote: »Matthew 16:26
For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?
Quite.........we are unable to save ourselves through good works lest any man should boast!!!
......Oh what Grace that saved a wretch like me!!!Soul Winner wrote: »If we are once saved always saved then why would we need to overcome? Doesn't make sense. If you are drowning and someone throws you a life saving rope and starts to pull you to safety and you let go of the rope how can they save you? We are being saved by faith, we are not ACTUALLY saved until we ACTUALLY overcome. That hasn't happened yet and it is possible to fall away before it does all we have to do is to let go of the faith rope that He has thrown us.
.......the 'saving rope' that Jesus has used to save us is wound around our bodies with an unbreakable knot!!!Soul Winner wrote: »Hebrews 2
Therefore we ought to give the more earnest heed to the things which we have heard, lest at any time we should let them slip. For if the word spoken by angels was stedfast, and every transgression and disobedience received a just recompence of reward; How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him;
.....yes indeed there is NO escape if we neglect to be saved....and indeed IF "every transgression and disobedience" of the saved WERE to receive "a just recompence of reward".....we would all be utterly lost.......
........'tis a good thing that we are saved then......isn't it????:) 0 -
Those that believe "once saved always saved" is a false docterine.Originally Posted by J C
....for the simple reason that Paul could ONLY get his reward in Heaven.....when he arrived in Heaven.....i.e. AFTER he died!!
Please note that it is logically implicit in OSAS that the saved 'keep the faith' until they die!!!Soul Winner wrote: »Yes and he had to keep the faith until then.Soul Winner wrote: »God's Word is forever settled in heaven and His spirit can still be grieved. Not putting your faith in Him grieves Him the most not sin. He hates sin but loves the sinner. Sin is not the issue anymore because He dealt with that on the cross. It’s all about faith now not perfection. I know you are not implying that it is but saying that you accept Jesus once in your life is not going to pass muster with God. It should be done daily and when a circumstance in your life hits you that contradict God's promises then you must all the more grab hold of His promises by speaking them forth.
...once again, please note that it is logically implicit in OSAS that the saved 'keep the faith' until they die!!!Soul Winner wrote: »2 Corinthians 1:20
For all the promises of God in him are yea, and in him Amen, unto the glory of God by us.
The above verse gives us license to claim all God's promises if we need to.
.....ONLY if we are saved!!
Faith is a given for the Saved ......Jesus eloquently confirmed the veracity of what you are saying when He told Thomas "you believe because you see.......but blessed is he who believes but has not seen".Soul Winner wrote: »Hebrews 11:1
Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
The above verse teaches that we substantiate God's promises by faith. They become reality through faith action in the promise being seized. No point in claiming His promise to heal you if you're not sick and no point in claiming the promise that He will provided if you have a healthy bank account and so on. The promise must be for something that you do not actually have in reality and when it is obtained by continued faith (i.e. healing for sickness and provision when needy etc) action in the promises for God that defies your circumstance. The verse below teaches this very thing.
Romans 8:24
...but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?
NOBODY knows who is saved only the saved theselves.......so I don't know if Demas was saved......but if he was saved then he would have remained saved......even if he tired during his walk with the Lord.Soul Winner wrote: »It is, but my point is that you can slip away from it by ceasing the aforementioned trusting action in God's Word. This must be maintained daily until death.
He actually forsook the Apostle Paul and loved the world more than His calling to minister with Paul. It was Paul who wrote 2 Timothy not Timothy himself.
Excessive and overplayed humility can ALSO be a form of pride (in the extent of one's own humility)!!!!Soul Winner wrote: »A truly humble man does not look back to see if he was. I get that myself and couldn't care less what anyone thinks of me when it comes to Christianity. The world hated Jesus as well and we are no greater than the master.
I have never claimed to be particularly endowed with the virtue of humility.....and I have 'fallen' on many occasions .......and took pleasure in driving home a debating point against the Evolutionists.......
......indeed I wouldn't be Human if I didn't 'score' when the Evolutionists presented me with a 'wide open goal' to aim at......as was often the case during the debate!!!!0 -
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Those that believe "once saved always saved" is a false docterine.Soul Winner wrote: »3 reasons: 1. To remind myself that Christ died for the un-Godly not the Godly. 2. Because it becomes a stumbling block for the self righteous. 3. Because I like it.
Do you put up a Christmas tree at Christmas time?
I do put up a Christmas tree.......but a Christmas tree is merely a tree with lights .............and it is therefore a form of decoration.
........while an Ank is a pagan symbol used in the worship ceremonies of pagan deities by the ancient Egyptians and some modern 'mystery cults'.
.....and BTW....although Christ died to save sinners......His sacrifice will ultimately only benefit the Godly .........i.e. the Saved Elect.
.......and do you think that a Christian should wear a Pentagram or set up a statue to Baphomet in their home ......as "a stumbling block for the self righteous"...... or because they "like it"???? 0 -
I do.......but a Christmas tree is merely a tree with lights .............and it is therefore a form of decoration.
........while an Ank is a pagan symbol used in the worship of pagan deities by the ancient Egyptians and modern mystery cults.
Jeremiah 10:1-5
"Hear ye the word which the LORD speaketh unto you, O house of Israel: Thus saith the LORD, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them. For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe. They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not. They are upright as the palm tree, but speak not: they must needs be borne, because they cannot go. Be not afraid of them; for they cannot do evil, neither also is it in them to do good."
Good article about Christmas.....and BTW....although Christ died to save sinners......His sacrifice will ultimately only benefit the Godly Saved Elect.
Yes the Godly that are made Godly by Him not themselves. Do you not consider yourself still a sinner? I do. Until this garment of the flesh is laid down ony then can I be truly sanctified and separated wholly over there. Until then I (sinner) must keep acting in faith on God's promises........and do you think that a Christian should wear a Pentagram or set up a statue to Baphomet in their home ......as "a stumbling block for the self righteous"...... or because they "like it"????
Yes. I hate self righteous people especially self righteous Christians and if a statue of Baphomet is the only thing that will keep them out of my house then that's who I will erect. Self righteous Christians are products of fleshly works that they think will get them to heaven and are by nature children of the bond woman which shall not be heir with the children of the free. So what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her child.
Genesis 21:10
Wherefore she said unto Abraham, Cast out this bondwoman and her son: for the son of this bondwoman shall not be heir with my son, even with Isaac.
Galatians 4:30
Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.0 -
Those that believe "once saved always saved" is a false docterine.I do.......but a Christmas tree is merely a tree with lights .............and it is therefore a form of decoration.
........while an Ank is a pagan symbol used in the worship of pagan deities by the ancient Egyptians and modern mystery cults.
This verse refers to the use of a tree as a Totem Idol......and as I do not adore my Christmas tree nor permit others to do so.......Soul Winner wrote: »Jeremiah 10:1-5
"Hear ye the word which the LORD speaketh unto you, O house of Israel: Thus saith the LORD, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them. For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe. They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not. They are upright as the palm tree, but speak not: they must needs be borne, because they cannot go. Be not afraid of them; for they cannot do evil, neither also is it in them to do good."
.......it is therefore NEITHER a Totem nor an Idol......but merely a decoration!!!!
However, an Ank is a pagan symbol used in the worship of pagan deities by the ancient Egyptians and by some modern 'mystery cults'......which puts it into a totally different category to a Christmas tree!!!
......perhaps you didn't realise what an Ank was when you chose it as your avator???Soul Winner wrote: »Yes the Godly that are made Godly by Him not themselves. Do you not consider yourself still a sinner? I do. Until this garment of the flesh is laid down ony then can I be truly sanctified and separated wholly over there. Until then I (sinner) must keep acting in faith on God's promises.
.....you ARE joking.....I assume!!!Soul Winner wrote: »Yes. I hate self righteous people especially self righteous Christians and if a statue of Baphomet is the only thing that will keep them out of my house then that's who I will erect.
Could I gently point out that hatred should have no place in a Christian's heart........and especially NOT hatred towards fellow Christians.Soul Winner wrote: »Yes. I hate self righteous people especially self righteous Christians and if a statue of Baphomet is the only thing that will keep them out of my house then that's who I will erect.
......sounds like the 'cure' could be significantly worse than the 'disease'!!!:eek:
......and the following verses of Scripture also come to mind:
Eph 5:11-13 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them.
For it is a shame even to speak of those things which are done of them in secret.
But all things that are reproved are made manifest by the light: for whatsoever doth make manifest is light.Soul Winner wrote: »Self righteous Christians are products of fleshly works that they think will get them to heaven and are by nature children of the bond woman which shall not be heir with the children of the free. So what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her child.
......could I gently remind you that MY position is that that fleshy works (of either sin or virtue) will NOT save or condemn anybody.......because the saved are OSAS and the unsaved are.......er.. UNSAVED!!!!:D
......could I gently point out that saying 'I do' once to my wife DID pass muster with God as a binding life-long commitment between myself and her......Soul Winner wrote: »......saying that you (J C) accept Jesus once in your life is not going to pass muster with God. It should be done daily and when a circumstance in your life hits you that contradict God's promises then you must all the more grab hold of His promises by speaking them forth.
......so why shouldn't saying 'I believe on You' once ALSO pass muster with God as a binding eternal commitment between myself and Jesus Christ???? 0 -
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Not sure.OSas is the number One Doctrine of Devils to Undermine the Fear of God,
Jesus said you MUST be born again. MUST. and no doubt about it!!!
"Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God". John 3vs3
Many church folk, from the pulpit to the back door, who are living in all sorts of unrepentant sin and iniquity who say they are born again. I say are living proof of the dirty lie of OSAS. OSAS sells, thats why so many churches buy it!. Chances are you bought it too!!
1 John 2:3-4 And hereby WE do KNOW that we KNOW HIM, IF (IF, IF, IF) we KEEP HIS commandments. He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.0 -
This verse refers to the use of a tree as a Totem Idol......and as I do not adore my Christmas tree nor permit others to do so.......
.......it is therefore NEITHER a Totem nor an Idol......but merely a decoration!!!!
However, an Ank is a pagan symbol used in the worship of pagan deities by the ancient Egyptians and by some modern 'mystery cults'......which puts it into a totally different category to a Christmas tree!!!
But your Christmas tree is a phallic symbol, it is not Christian and neither is Christmas for that matter. Christ was not born on the 25th of December so why do you celebrate it then? And if it is not Christ's birth you are celebrating then what is it and why the tree?......perhaps you didn't realise what an Ank was when you chose it as your avator???
Perhaps, but that’s besides the point at this stage of the argument. You seem to be implying that I advocate the Ank as a pagan symbol to be worshipped. If so then where have I advocated the worship of the Ank as a pagan symbol more than you have of the Christmas tree? You think the Christmas tree is a decorative thing as do I of the Ank. What’s the difference? The Christmas tree is a phallic symbol and has nothing to with the birth of Christ as does the Ank but the Christmas tree is ok but the Ank isn’t?.....you ARE joking.....I assume!!!
No I am not joking. I hate self-righteous people. So does God.Could I gently point out that hatred should have no place in a Christian's heart........and especially NOT hatred towards fellow Christians.
Hatred of the right things has a place though. God hates plenty of things.
For instance:
Deuteronomy 9:28
…'Because the LORD was not able to take them into the land he had promised them, and because he hated them, he brought them out to put them to death in the desert.'
Proverbs 6:16
There are six things the LORD hates, seven that are detestable to him:
Malachi 2:16
"I hate divorce," says the LORD God of Israel, "and I hate a man's covering himself with violence as well as with his garment," says the LORD Almighty. So guard yourself in your spirit, and do not break faith.
Romans 9:13
Just as it is written: "Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated."
Romans 12:9
Love must be sincere. Hate what is evil; cling to what is good.
Revelation 2:6
But you have this in your favor: You hate the practices of the Nicolaitans, which I also hate.
David also hated people:
Psalm 31:6
I hate those who cling to worthless idols; I trust in the LORD.
If a self-righteous person were a so called fellow Christian then I would not be a Christian. A Christian is someone who follows Christ, puts their trust in Christ, is like Christ. What makes someone self-righteous is the fact that they trust in their own righteousness rather than God’s. This proves they are not my brothers. Some of these self-righteous ones call themselves Christians but they are not. They give lip service to God but worship the creature. They are false brethren. Read what kind and loving words Paul used here and what he wished the false brethren who came in unawares to the saints at Galatia compelling them to be circumcised would do:
Galatians 5:12
As for those agitators, I wish they would go the whole way and emasculate themselves!......sounds like the 'cure' could be significantly worse than the 'disease'!!!:eek:
I disagree. As bad as a the cure might be I think the disease is much worse.
......and the following verses of Scripture also come to mind:
Eph 5:11-13 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them.
For it is a shame even to speak of those things which are done of them in secret.
But all things that are reproved are made manifest by the light: for whatsoever doth make manifest is light.
Reprove?
Reprove from Dictionnary.com:
1. to criticize or correct, esp. gently: to reprove a pupil for making a mistake.
2. to disapprove of strongly; censure: to reprove a bad decision.
3. Obsolete. to disprove or refute.
–verb (used without object) 4. to speak in reproof; administer a reproof.
To voice or convey disapproval of; rebuke. See Synonyms at admonish.
To find fault with.
—Synonyms 1. scold, reprimand, upbraid, chide, reprehend, admonish. See reproach.
—Antonyms 1. praise......could I gently remind you that MY position is that that fleshy works (of either sin or virtue) will NOT save or condemn anybody.......because the saved are OSAS and the unsaved are.......er.. UNSAVED!!!!:D
I think I pointed out clearly enough in my other response that the OSAS is a false doctrine. We are only Always Saved when we make it home. We have to make it there first though. It is like a man running a 100m sprint race. He is not awarded the status of having finished the race until he crosses the line. He could run 99% of the way and fall inches from the line and the guy behind him would pinch the prize. All analogies break down but you get my drift I think.......could I gently point out that saying 'I do' once to my wife DID pass muster with God as a binding life-long commitment between myself and her......
......so why shouldn't saying 'I believe on You' once ALSO pass muster with God as a binding eternal commitment between myself and Jesus Christ????
You’re vows are valid to you wife but imagine how she would feel if you never expressed another thing to her or vice versa until death did you part? She needs to know time and again that you love her. Plus people do renew their vows in marriage. And it is also possible to be married to somebody who you don’t love anymore or who you actually hate. It happens all the time. You start out loving them and committing to them and then after a few years you fall out of love with them for whatever reason or they fall out of love with you and although you are still legally married your marriage is meaningless because the love is gone. God hates divorce but He’d rather that than a bad marriage. Commitment to God is the same. Yesterday’s faith will be of no benefit to you in eternity if you lose faith it today. We must re-commit ourselves to God daily. The once saved always saved doctrine is what is wrong in the Church. It has become a vehicle of pride. Nobody has a right to say that they are saved until they are actually saved out of this world. Once you are still here it is possible to fall away and the only thing that can stop that from happening is daily faith action on God’s promises which puts His power in you, and once you are doing that you can safely say that you are “being” saved.0 -
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