Bugging me for a while thread...

msg11 · 22-01-2008 1:32am #1

Ill start this thread for all the people, full and provisional just meaning to brush up on a few things.

Whats this about...?

Well if you have a single question and dont want to start a whole thread just ask here...

////

Now, this has been really getting on my nerves...

I know its on the test and all that, but...

Is reversing around a corner, not illegal?

jhegarty · 22-01-2008 10:27am

msg11 wrote: »

Is reversing around a corner, not illegal?

As I understand it...

reversing from major road to minor (like you do on the test) legal...

reversing from minor to major illegal....

tolosenc · 22-01-2008 2:42pm

jhegarty wrote: »

As I understand it...

reversing from major road to minor (like you do on the test) legal...

reversing from minor to major illegal....

But highly dangerous all the same.

galah · 24-01-2008 1:03pm

to be honest, I've never seen the point of it. Reversing into a parking spot, yes. Reversing out of a parking spot, yes. Three point turn, fine...but reversing around a corner? I don't think I've ever had to do it in my life (in the real world). Unless I'm missing something?

ztoical · 24-01-2008 1:16pm

seen alot of trucks having to do it but not cars

MrPudding · 24-01-2008 2:10pm

ztoical wrote: »

seen alot of trucks having to do it but not cars

Seriously? I reverse round corners every day.

MrP

The Hacker · 24-01-2008 3:19pm

galah wrote: »

to be honest, I've never seen the point of it. Reversing into a parking spot, yes. Reversing out of a parking spot, yes. Three point turn, fine...but reversing around a corner? I don't think I've ever had to do it in my life (in the real world). Unless I'm missing something?

I have to do it every single day when leaving my estate..

msg11 · 24-01-2008 6:27pm

That clears that one up for me, still very dangerous I might say.

Also, while on it. Why do so many people think that its hard ? Its quite easy to reverse around the corner, just adjust your mirrors to the curb, thats about it and after a while you just get used to it with the need of the mirrors..

Anyone for another question ??

ztoical · 24-01-2008 7:15pm

MrPudding wrote: »

Seriously? I reverse round corners every day.

MrP

If we're counting people reversing out of drive ways then yes I've seen cars do it but the only cars I see going backwards round corners on busy roads are people on their tests [I leave down the road from a test center] I'm not saying people do or don't do it, I was just answering honestly that I've only noticed trucks doing it, mainly round construction yards as they are making deliveries. Only time I've had to do it so far is for my test.

ztoical · 24-01-2008 7:21pm

msg11 wrote: »

Also, while on it. Why do so many people think that its hard ? Its quite easy to reverse around the corner, just adjust your mirrors to the curb, thats about it and after a while you just get used to it with the need of the mirrors..

I don't find it hard but doing it under the test conditions is annoying. I've found the places the testers pick to do it in kilkenny are just mad. The main one they use is just off one of the roundabouts for the ring road and across from Supervalue. No matter what time of day you try to do it there are cars coming from ever direction. It seriously took me over 15 mins to do mine - 45 seconds for the actually reverse but waiting for the road to be clear and then going round the corner only to be meet with more traffic, having to go back and start all over. I would never in a million years reverse around that corner as all I have to do is drive down take two lefts and I end up on the street I'm trying to reverse into.

Wishbone Ash · 24-01-2008 9:51pm

galah wrote: »

to be honest, I've never seen the point of it. Reversing into a parking spot, yes. Reversing out of a parking spot, yes. Three point turn, fine...but reversing around a corner? I don't think I've ever had to do it in my life (in the real world). Unless I'm missing something?

The reverse around a corner manoeuvre is used to assess your observational skills, spatial awareness and right of way knowledge while maintaining complete control over your vehicle using the accelerator, clutch, footbrake, parking brake and the steering wheel.

Whether or not you ever have to do it again is irrelevant.

Cookie_Monster · 24-01-2008 11:24pm

galah wrote: »

to be honest, I've never seen the point of it. Reversing into a parking spot, yes. Reversing out of a parking spot, yes. Three point turn, fine...but reversing around a corner? I don't think I've ever had to do it in my life (in the real world). Unless I'm missing something?

It's a way of simulating reversing into a parking space without having to worry about potentially damaging any car that would be parked either side of you if it was a real space. Thats what my instructor told me anyway...

galah · 25-01-2008 1:38pm

I see...

well, way back when I learned to drive, the instructor used traffic cones to mark the spot I had to reverse into, and during the driving test, I had to reverse into a proper parking spot - at least there's no danger for other drivers as such...

@ Wishbone Ash: Obviously, I use the "method" of reversing every day - but not on an open road as such - and I've never seen the need for it (I classify reversing out of a driveway not as 'reversing around a corner', but maybe it's just my understanding of the term rather than the actual manouever...

Johnny Bitte · 25-01-2008 2:40pm

Hi all,
My question is when reversing around the corner in the test is it ok to stop na dcompletely adjust your mirros to see the curb?

wil · 28-01-2008 11:42am

If you never had to reverse around a corner then you obviously dont drive much in the city. (This exact question was asked about a month ago.)

Often this manoeuvre is the only safe way to change direction on a narrow street and a 3 point turn would just block traffic or there was not enough room for a tpt.
As for being dangerous - ???? - only if carried out dangerously.

Nothing inherently any more dangerous than regular reversing, observation is the key point.

wil · 28-01-2008 1:05pm

The_Goose135 wrote: »

Hi all,
My question is when reversing around the corner in the test is it ok to stop na dcompletely adjust your mirros to see the curb?

No problem adjusting mirrors, good observation is particularly important for reversing as your view is restricted and normally you are reversing against flow of traffic. But also remember to look out for pedestrians and cars.
Look around, forward, left and back then reverse and regularly look around particularly when the nose of your car crosses the central line.

This is why as WA said, this manoeuvre is a good test of many abilities.

msg11 · 29-01-2008 12:05am

Have a new question ...

I am getting a letter from my job, saying I need a full license as part of my job etc...

Just wondering how quick should the test come after the letter is sent?

SeanW · 29-01-2008 12:38am

The only problem I have with the reversing around a junction maneuvure is how hard it is to practice. I was practicing almost daily in the run up to my test and almost every time I went to the junctions commonly used for that maneuvure would always be taken up by other L-Platers doing the same maneuvre, about 50% of the time the junction I intended to practice on would be occupied first.

wil · 29-01-2008 12:40pm

SeanW wrote: »

The only problem I have with the reversing around a junction maneuvure is how hard it is to practice. I was practicing almost daily in the run up to my test and almost every time I went to the junctions commonly used for that maneuvure would always be taken up by other L-Platers doing the same maneuvre, about 50% of the time the junction I intended to practice on would be occupied first.

Have you tried the junctions NOT commonly used for that maneuvure.:rolleyes:
Surely "Longford" has a few more junctions than you are leading us to believe. Plenty of places you can practice, including car parks, gateways, any space with some cones/bollards laid out as previously suggested.
I dont think think there is anything like the number of Learners actually learning on the roads as I have encounterd in the UK, in fact a small fraction of that number. In some housing estates during the day you could have several L-cars queueing up to drive around. Saw one with 7 L-cars, all PROPER instructors.
People do easily 4 times as many proper paid for lessons as here.

SeanW · 29-01-2008 2:08pm

wil wrote: »

Have you tried the junctions NOT commonly used for that maneuvure.:rolleyes:

Yes, I was taken on one in one of my earlier tests - a corner on a steep hill with a 30 degree angle :mad:

Surely "Longford" has a few more junctions than you are leading us to believe.

Plenty of junctions, most of them on main roads. But I got onto the requisite junctions enough to get it down to fine art so I'm not really complaining.

Saw one with 7 L-cars, all PROPER instructors.
People do easily 4 times as many proper paid for lessons as here.

And I think that's a problem - I passed my test only after changing driving schools - went from getting 12 Grade 2 faults to only 1 - from a school with multiple instructors to a single instructor. New instructor left me in no doubt about the quality of instruction I got from the other crowd. And in retrospect, it's all starting to make sense.

I've been hearing a lot about this instructor-testing thing. Not a damn minute too soon as far as I'm concerned. Because there are probably a whole load of instructors nationwide who shouldn't really be doing it at all.

Obviously I can't name names about my above experience but if anyone in Longford wants the name and contact details of the good instructor, PM me.

wil · 29-01-2008 8:13pm

SeanW wrote: »

New instructor left me in no doubt about the quality of instruction I got from the other crowd. And in retrospect, it's all starting to make sense.

I've been hearing a lot about this instructor-testing thing. Not a damn minute too soon as far as I'm concerned. Because there are probably a whole load of instructors nationwide who shouldn't really be doing it at all.

Spot on, a good instructor is worth every penny, a bad one is a complete waste of time and money.

daveharnett · 01-02-2008 11:38am

msg11 wrote: »

Have a new question ...
I am getting a letter from my job, saying I need a full license as part of my job etc...
Just wondering how quick should the test come after the letter is sent?

A month or two, depending on what centre. It was 6 weeks for me.

BlackWizard · 02-02-2008 1:15pm

I heard someone say that I shouldn't rest my foot on the clutch when driving.

But I always do this. Where should I put my foot then or is it okay to leave my foot rest on the clutch? I don't press it in, it's just hovering there.

Wishbone Ash · 02-02-2008 1:36pm

BlackWizard wrote: »

I heard someone say that I shouldn't rest my foot on the clutch when driving.

But I always do this. Where should I put my foot then or is it okay to leave my foot rest on the clutch? I don't press it in, it's just hovering there.

Place it to the left of the clutch pedal or under it if space is restricted.

You say that you don't press the pedal but, in a test, an examiner cannot tell if you are pressing it slightly or not and will have no choice but to penalise you.

Personally, I would find having my foot hovering over the pedal to be very uncomfortable. :eek:

Wishbone Ash · 02-02-2008 1:41pm

Vehicle Controls

An applicant should make proper use of the: - accelerator, clutch, gears, footbrake, handbrake, steering,
and secondary controls or a fault may be recorded for ‘Vehicle Controls’ as appropriate.

The ‘Technical Checks’ should be demonstrated correctly, as should the coupling/uncoupling exercise, as required, or the appropriate fault should be recorded. Some controls require a degree of co-ordination and should be
demonstrated smoothly by the applicant.

Examples of ‘Vehicle Control’ faults include:

(a) Accelerator: not applied properly or at the correct time, or excessive use for the conditions.

(b) Clutch: coasting, i.e. driving for a prolonged distance with the pedal pressed in or sharp engagements causing the vehicle to jerk unnecessarily or resting the foot on the clutch pedal for prolonged periods causing it to slip or attempting to change gears without using the clutch.

(c) Gears: selecting an incorrect gear, or coasting, i.e. driving for some distance in neutral, or driving for a prolonged distance in an incorrect gear.

(d) Footbrake: non application of the footbrake, unnecessarily sharp application or late application for the circumstances.

(e) Handbrake: not applied as appropriate on an incline, or during a prolonged stop in traffic, or being applied before the vehicle has come to a halt, or inadequate application, or attempting to drive while the handbrake is still engaged.

jhegarty · 02-02-2008 2:09pm

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

Personally, I would find having my foot hovering over the pedal to be very uncomfortable. :eek:

If find it depends a lot on the car... my current car has a grand foot rest next to it , but my last one had no where to put your foot , so really had a "hover"....

Its a very hard habit to get out of, but make sure you do before the test, its enough to fail on its own....

BlackWizard · 02-02-2008 3:10pm

Ive no space to the left of the pedal. Ive a fourth pedal to the left of the clutch. It's my handbrake.

So should I take my foot off it and place it on the floor on front of the clutch? I don't think I can drive like that. I like having easy access to the clutch.

Wishbone Ash · 02-02-2008 8:41pm

BlackWizard wrote: »

Ive a fourth pedal to the left of the clutch. It's my handbrake

It must be awkward reaching down there!

(It's a foot operated park brake

).

BlackWizard wrote:

So should I take my foot off it and place it on the floor on front of the clutch? I don't think I can drive like that. I like having easy access to the clutch.

You only think that - a bit of practise and you'll wonder how you could drive the other way.

cson · 02-02-2008 9:15pm

Got the date for my test on Wednesday last (w00t), the 5th of March, and with just over 4 weeks til then theres a few things that need clarifying for me;

Roundabouts: I haven't gone round a roundabout with an instructor yet (I've absolutely no problem with them) but one of my mates said his instructor told him that you *must* be in 2nd gear when going around a roundabout. Is this true?
Gearing: From the bits and bobs I've read here, you should never use 1st gear unless taking off. What is confusing me is; if I stop in traffic (Traffic Lights, obstruction etc) can I go down to 1st or must you take off in second?
Time: Can I be as meticulous with parking etc as I want or can you be marked down on causing obstruction to other road users? As in, can I take my time reversing into a parking space?
Observation: Do you physically have to show yourself checking your mirrors? i.e. Turn your head? I can check them without moving my head (move my eyes) but I presume the tester would ride you on observation if I do it my way?

Cheerio's

Wishbone Ash · 02-02-2008 9:29pm

cson wrote: »

[*]Roundabouts: I haven't gone round a roundabout with an instructor yet (I've absolutely no problem with them) but one of my mates said his instructor told him that you *must* be in 2nd gear when going around a roundabout. Is this true?

It would really depend on the size of the roundabout.

[*]Gearing: From the bits and bobs I've read here, you should never use 1st gear unless taking off. What is confusing me is; if I stop in traffic (Traffic Lights, obstruction etc) can I go down to 1st or must you take off in second?

You should never change down to first gear while moving. It should only be selected after the vehicle has stopped. At traffic lights etc. you may select 1st after coming to a stop.

[*]Time: Can I be as meticulous with parking etc as I want or can you be marked down on causing obstruction to other road users? As in, can I take my time reversing into a parking space?

Unless you are parallel parking, I'd just drive straight into the parking spot. There's no point delaying the tester or making things more awkward for yourself. Do not park on double yellows or cause an obstruction. Reverse park prior to the test so that you can drive straight out for the test.

(You cannot be penalised if your vehicle is illegally parked at the start of the test).

[*]Observation: Do you physically have to show yourself checking your mirrors? i.e. Turn your head? I can check them without moving my head (move my eyes) but I presume the tester would ride you on observation if I do it my way?

I'd make a slight movement but I wouldn't exaggerate any movements.

WUSBDesign · 02-02-2008 10:19pm

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

You should never change down to first gear while moving. It should only be selected after the vehicle has stopped. At traffic lights etc. you may select 1st after coming to a stop.

Hmm...the need to change down to 1st gear depends on the *speed* the car needs to move at given the situation...eg., sharp turns, going up an inclined driveway, etc.

Wishbone Ash · 02-02-2008 10:30pm

WUSBDesign wrote: »

Hmm...the need to change down to 1st gear depends on the *speed* the car needs to move at given the situation...eg., sharp turns, going up an inclined driveway, etc.

If you need to change down to 1st gear while moving then there is something wrong with you or your car.

What turn is so sharp that you need to drop to 1st? In over 20 years of driving, I've never met one.

Driveway - perfectly acceptable to stay in 1st if moving off on a steep driveway as the car is moving off from a stop.

chris85 · 02-02-2008 10:42pm

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

What turn is so sharp that you need to drop to 1st? In over 20 years of driving, I've never met one.

There is only one turn so sharp ive had to drop it down to 1st. The infamous hill in Lucan. To make the swing left to go up the hill need to pretty much be slowed right down and 2nd isnt good to start that hill on. Was fine on my old 1.4L but the latest 1.2L prefers a little help with it so 1st gear.

WUSBDesign · 02-02-2008 10:51pm

Perfect example - I've been there on that road from Lucan to Clonsilla. One will notice that the left rear near-side wheel is actually not touching the road surface.

Of course, go the M50 way, and 1st gear is not needed.

Wishbone Ash · 02-02-2008 11:23pm

chris85 wrote: »

There is only one turn so sharp ive had to drop it down to 1st. The infamous hill in Lucan

WUSBDesign wrote: »

Perfect example

Sorry, I'm not familiar with that hill lads but I think if I was in a similar scenario I would bring the car to a stop, then select 1st and continue. Selecting 1st while moving is a no no.

cson · 03-02-2008 12:02am

Cheers WA, I'm sure I'll have a few more q's winging their way here again soon.

Wishbone Ash · 03-02-2008 12:08am

cson wrote: »

Cheers WA, I'm sure I'll have a few more q's winging their way here again soon.

That's what we're here for!

chris85 · 03-02-2008 10:31am

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

Sorry, I'm not familiar with that hill lads but I think if I was in a similar scenario I would bring the car to a stop, then select 1st and continue. Selecting 1st while moving is a no no.

Just to try to explain the hill the way i come from. Its basically a very very sharp left turn with an immediate change from flat road to steep hill as soon as you turn. The car is more or less at a standstill just at the apex of the turn, and the hill is to steep to take in 2nd. Drop to first just at the apex of the turn at slowest point and then give the car a good bit of welly and get up the hill.

Oh and hard to take it at any speed as well as it a back road with no lighting, although is a busy section. Well known around that area.

J_R · 03-02-2008 1:08pm

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

Sorry, I'm not familiar with that hill lads but I think if I was in a similar scenario I would bring the car to a stop, then select 1st and continue. Selecting 1st while moving is a no no.

I vaguely remember my Father talking about not being able to select 1st gear whilst the car was moving, used to say something about no synch on 1st. - whatever that meant - was very very young, long long time ago.

As far as I am aware, all modern cars have now full synchronisation on all forward gears and therefore 1st can and should be treated exactly as any other gear. That is, used properly and correctly. Have the speed of the car correct before selecting and use it when the situation demands. Same as any other gear, no need to stop before engaging.

Of course, if you are driving an old car with only partial synchronisation, you must stop, select 1st and away. If you are doing the test, mutter aloud about no Synch on 1st and that if you pass the test you will treat yourself to a proper modern car.

SeanW · 03-02-2008 2:31pm

cson wrote: »

Roundabouts: I haven't gone round a roundabout with an instructor yet (I've absolutely no problem with them) but one of my mates said his instructor told him that you *must* be in 2nd gear when going around a roundabout. Is this true?

Generally speaking, yes.

Gearing: From the bits and bobs I've read here, you should never use 1st gear unless taking off. What is confusing me is; if I stop in traffic (Traffic Lights, obstruction etc) can I go down to 1st or must you take off in second?

In the 1L VW Polo I drive, if you get caught up in very slow traffic <5MPH, the car will struggle in 2nd gear. You should not use 1st gear while moving unless you lose speed enough to cause the car to struggle in 2nd, or you must drive up a steep hill at low speed.

Time: Can I be as meticulous with parking etc as I want or can you be marked down on causing obstruction to other road users? As in, can I take my time reversing into a parking space?

Wishbone has it right - reverse in before the test, drive straight out, then drive straight back in and reverse back out when you have your competency/failure cert.

There is no point in exposing yourself to unnecessary complications while you have the tester in the passenger seat.

Observation: Do you physically have to show yourself checking your mirrors? i.e. Turn your head? I can check them without moving my head (move my eyes) but I presume the tester would ride you on observation if I do it my way?

I'm not sure there's any definitave answer on this, but my first instructor told me that it's not enough to "eyeball" the mirrors and blind spots, the tester has to SEE that you're doing it. I changed instructors and the new one didn't pull me up on it. I proceeded to do the test with observation backed by demonstrated head movements, and passed. Remeber that the MSMM demands a check of the blind spot along with the second mirror check.

xeroshero · 04-02-2008 5:59pm

When driving an automatic - should you put it into neutral when stopping at lights etc?
Thanks

woop · 04-02-2008 6:14pm

I vaguely remember my Father talking about not being able to select 1st gear whilst the car was moving, used to say something about no synch on 1st. - whatever that meant - was very very young, long long time ago.

As far as I am aware, all modern cars have now full synchronisation on all forward gears and therefore 1st can and should be treated exactly as any other gear. That is, used properly and correctly. Have the speed of the car correct before selecting and use it when the situation demands. Same as any other gear, no need to stop before engaging.

Of course, if you are driving an old car with only partial synchronisation, you must stop, select 1st and away. If you are doing the test, mutter aloud about no Synch on 1st and that if you pass the test you will treat yourself to a proper modern car.

do you mean a synchro mesh?
my o4 corsa needs to slow down before going into 1st although it doesnt need to stop really

not that id take of in 1st from second when moving Ive just noticed this from stopping at lights etc

msg11 · 04-02-2008 8:28pm

Another question...

I have applied for a test , I might be waiting a while, do you think it would be a good idea too book me in for another centre ? Like book a second test, just in case the first on doesn't work out ?

Wishbone Ash · 04-02-2008 8:39pm

xeroshero wrote: »

When driving an automatic - should you put it into neutral when stopping at lights etc?
Thanks

No - leave it in 'Drive'.

chris85 · 04-02-2008 8:46pm

msg11 wrote: »

Another question...

I have applied for a test , I might be waiting a while, do you think it would be a good idea too book me in for another centre ? Like book a second test, just in case the first on doesn't work out ?

Firstly this is not allowed as you cannot have two applications in the system at same time afaik.

Use the time you are waiting to get your test to practice so you will pass the test when it does come around.

macplaxton · 04-02-2008 8:54pm

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

Sorry, I'm not familiar with that hill lads but I think if I was in a similar scenario I would bring the car to a stop, then select 1st and continue. Selecting 1st while moving is a no no.

For all your wise words WBA, selecting 1st whilst moving most certainly isn't a no no, provided it's done properly. By that I mean making sure the vehicle is slowed to an appropriate speed before changing down into first gear so the gear goes in easily without jerking or acting as a break and slowing the car down.

When I learnt to drive I had to change down into first (on a car with a crash first) on the move at a couple of broad "Give Way" junctions leading onto steep hills in my locality. Stopping, having to apply the handbrake, selecting first and moving off again was something you'd needn't necessarily do at a "Give Way" junction with good visibility. This came under headings "correct use of gears" and "making progress".

msg11 · 05-02-2008 12:43am

chris85 wrote: »

Firstly this is not allowed as you cannot have two applications in the system at same time afaik.

Use the time you are waiting to get your test to practice so you will pass the test when it does come around.

Practising all the time, I would say I am confident that I would pass. Its just the fact that if I get an instructor who is in an angry mood on the day, that they would just fail me.

I know I can apply again, but I would rather get it the first time, rather than sitting around waiting again.

J_R · 05-02-2008 6:50am

woop wrote: »

do you mean a synchro mesh?

Yes that was it. Remember it was a long time ago.

In my lifetime of driving, I have never found it necessary to stop before engaging 1st gear.

Of course it is the most difficult gear to use smoothly, so I can quite understand how a bad or very inexperienced driver would find it difficult to engage whilst still moving and do it smoothly and competently. for them it might indeed be better to stop

In the test, If you stop unnecessary to engage 1st then you could be marked for gears and progress.

WUSBDesign · 05-02-2008 10:50am

J_R wrote: »

Of course it is the most difficult gear to use smoothly, so I can quite understand how a bad or very inexperienced driver would find it difficult to engage whilst still moving and do it smoothly and competently. for them it might indeed be better to stop

Careful now...you might get banned

cson · 06-02-2008 1:58pm

Another one, when reversing around a corner what indication should one use? Hazards?

Old_-_School · 06-02-2008 2:53pm

cson wrote: »

Another one, when reversing around a corner what indication should one use? Hazards?

Left indicator on at all times. Keep putting it back on when it turns itself off.

Bugging me for a while thread...

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