Robbie keane

Savman · 29-01-2008 05:33PM

DesF wrote: »

THE most important for a striker imo.

Good. So long as you remember that when I come back from hols

:D

kryogen · 29-01-2008 05:34PM

des for you to say stats schmatz and the a few posts later say stats are the most important thing is pretty funny

you can only beat whats in front of you, stapleton scored 75 league goals for arsenal in 225 appearances and he scored 60 in 223 for united....not exactly prolific was it

keane has scored 76 league goals for spurs so far in 182 games,

stapleton couldnt outscore him in what you say were better teams at the time

LuckyLloyd · 29-01-2008 05:36PM

Unearthly wrote: »

Great another simpleton who only judges players through certain stats

Ah yeah, your right. I guess I'm a simpelton and not a real football fan because I don't like to generalise and judge players on the basis of how many ridiculous transfer deals they are linked to in the tabloids.

Nalz · 29-01-2008 05:37PM

DesF wrote: »

Stapo played for ManYoo and Arsenal.

Those were big clubs in the shadows of Liverpool,Everton and the likes during his career

LuckyLloyd · 29-01-2008 05:38PM

Trilla wrote: »

Those were big clubs in the shadows of Liverpool,Everton and the likes during his career

DING DING DING

_blank_ · 29-01-2008 05:39PM

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Competative:

Yugoslavia
Turkey (playoff)
Iran (playoff)
Germany
Spain

Friendly:

Czech Republic
Holland
Russia
Croatia
Sweden

Yeah Des. He doesn't contribute in the key games or against decent teams.

http://www.rsssf.com/miscellaneous/robkeane-intlg.html

Types of           Matches    Goals

Friendlies      	29       12
World Cup Qualifier	18        6
World Cup                4        3
European Ch. Qual.	24       11
Other Tournaments	 3        0

Total caps:             78       32

Twelve goals in Friendlies.

I can't make out from that full table in the linked page who he scored the Qualification goals against.

Unearthly · 29-01-2008 05:40PM

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Ah yeah, your right. I guess I'm a simpelton and not a real football fan because I don't like to generalise and judge players on the basis of how many ridiculous transfer deals they are linked to in the tabloids.

No

Call me old fashioned, but I like to judge players by watching them and not spending my time looking at some opta index website

_blank_ · 29-01-2008 05:41PM

kryogen wrote: »

des for you to say stats schmatz and the a few posts later say stats are the most important thing is pretty funny

In different eras of football, I was referring to.

Read my full posts people.

gracehopper · 29-01-2008 05:42PM

I think Robbie is decent enough. Not world class but his record is very good.

He would do very well at liverpool and possibly Arsenal. He'd be on the bench for Utd and Chelsea. I do think he is good enough to play regularly and score for a top four team. As a United fan I'd swap saha for him noany day of the week but he would certainly be behind Rooney and Tevez. He would play in the wing positions for Chelsea as he is too slight for their style of centre forward.

LuckyLloyd · 29-01-2008 05:45PM

Unearthly wrote: »

No

Call me old fashioned, but I like to judge players by watching them and not spending my time looking at some opta index website

Yeah I watch both Keane and Berbatov. And as a Liverpool fan, I'd be delighted if we signed Keane up tomorrow.

Unearthly · 29-01-2008 05:51PM

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Yeah I watch both Keane and Berbatov. And as a Liverpool fan, I'd be delighted if we signed Keane up tomorrow.

Well I like Robbie Keane, just rate Berbatov higher.

LuckyLloyd · 29-01-2008 05:56PM

DesF wrote: »
http://www.rsssf.com/miscellaneous/robkeane-intlg.html
Types of           Matches    Goals

Friendlies      	29       12
World Cup Qualifier	18        6
World Cup                4        3
European Ch. Qual.	24       11
Other Tournaments	 3        0

Total caps:             78       32
Twelve goals in Friendlies.

I can't make out from that full table in the linked page who he scored the Qualification goals against.

So he scores a goal every 2.3 games in competative games at international level.

Stapleton scored 20 goals in his International career. I can't find any info on how those broke down between friendly and international matches. A very quick look told me that he opened his career with two goals in his debut against Turkey in a friendly (they would have been hapless at the time) and some of his international scoring contributions include goals against world powers such as Cyprus, Luxembourg (competative) and Malta (friendly).

On a more general level stats are fundamentally important when analysing sports. If it's american football and you are assessing the performance of a running back total yards and yards per carry are the benchmark. You can watch players and see a back make more impressive individual runs or seem more agile, pacy, etc, etc. But the bottom line is what counts - and the player with the most yards deservedly gets the plaudits.

Was RVN pretty to watch when he was at Utd? Not really. He just banged them in. And that's all that matters for a striker really.

In any case, Keane is a talented player on the ball; passes well; moves well; works hard. All that is fine - but he scores goals at the top level with regularity. That is his value (eventhough he has games under his belt at spurs on the right or the left).

MrJoeSoap · 29-01-2008 06:37PM

DesF wrote: »

Pure gick.

DesF wrote: »

Meh, I just liked the phrase.

DesF wrote: »

He certainly isn't World Class TM

DesF wrote: »

Stapleton tbh

Where did it all go wrong Des!? You used to make some good posts with insight and opinion, not stuff like this that I'd expect of a 14 year old (minus the Stapleton reference).

green123 wrote: »

no , not good enough.
if he was , he would be there

Complete and utter BS. Althought measuring a player as a "Top 4 Player" in itself is a totally pointless yardstick. Maybe if you were to say he's one of the ten best strikers in the league or something similar it would be worth commenting on. But judging a player by whether he would be good enough to be signed by Chelsea, Arsenal, United or Liverpool isn't the way to go.

DesF wrote: »

Robbie only seems to score against "weaker" nations, who didn't even exist in Stapo's day, or in friendlies.

Thats not true, though the amount of times I've heard it said is mind-boggling. He does score against weaker nations, but some of his best moments have been against Germany and Spain (albeit from the spot) in the '02 World Cup, and on two seperate occasions in the Amsterdam Arena against the Dutch. He got a standing ovation on his debut at home in the defeat to Argentina as well, although he didn't score on that particular night. I think he is without doubt the countries greatest goalscorer. He broke the goalscoring record at age TWENTY FOUR, and will probably go on to double it, and reach 100 caps.

DesF wrote: »

Robbie has played for Wolves, Inter, Coventry, Leeds and Spurs, and has only really made an impact in the 1st Div with Wolves, and in the Premier League with a generally ailing Spurs side, who don't live up to their potential or hype, much like Robbie actually.

What does the guy have to do to live up to the "hype"??? Score 50 goals for Ireland? Only score against the big countries? Score 50 goals for Ireland, only against the big countries?

Only in Ireland can we complain about a striker who shatters our national goal-scoring record, and say that the people he surpassed were better than him.

This country should never have left the 80's.

Pighead · 29-01-2008 07:53PM

MrJoeSoap wrote: »

Where did it all go wrong Des!? You used to make some good posts with insight and opinion, not stuff like this that I'd expect of a 14 year old (minus the Stapleton reference).

Complete and utter BS. Althought measuring a player as a "Top 4 Player" in itself is a totally pointless yardstick. Maybe if you were to say he's one of the ten best strikers in the league or something similar it would be worth commenting on. But judging a player by whether he would be good enough to be signed by Chelsea, Arsenal, United or Liverpool isn't the way to go.

Thats not true, though the amount of times I've heard it said is mind-boggling. He does score against weaker nations, but some of his best moments have been against Germany and Spain (albeit from the spot) in the '02 World Cup, and on two seperate occasions in the Amsterdam Arena against the Dutch. He got a standing ovation on his debut at home in the defeat to Argentina as well, although he didn't score on that particular night. I think he is without doubt the countries greatest goalscorer. He broke the goalscoring record at age TWENTY FOUR, and will probably go on to double it, and reach 100 caps.

What does the guy have to do to live up to the "hype"??? Score 50 goals for Ireland? Only score against the big countries? Score 50 goals for Ireland, only against the big countries?

Only in Ireland can we complain about a striker who shatters our national goal-scoring record, and say that the people he surpassed were better than him.

This country should never have left the 80's.

Was gonna go on a rant about how wrong Des was but coincidentally the rant was the exact same(down to the 3 question marks after "hype") as Joe's so i'll just copy his message.

Well said Joe.

eirebhoy · 29-01-2008 09:32PM

The poll options could be better. I think he's a very good player who's rated as a very good player.

eirebhoy · 29-01-2008 09:47PM

DesF wrote: »

http://www.rsssf.com/miscellaneous/robkeane-intlg.html

Types of           Matches    Goals

Friendlies      	29       12
World Cup Qualifier	18        6
World Cup                4        3
European Ch. Qual.	24       11
Other Tournaments	 3        0

Total caps:             78       32

Twelve goals in Friendlies.

Klose
Friendlies 34 17
World Cup 14 10
European Ch. Qual. 17 7
World Cup Qualifier 5 2
European Championship 2 0

Ronaldinho
Friendlies 32 14
World Cup Qualifiers 21 5
World Cup 10 2
Confederations Cup 13 9
Copa America 4 1
Other Tournaments 2 1

Zidane
Friendlies 11 51
European Champ. Qual. 6 19
European Championship 5 14
World Cup 5 12
World Cup Qualifier 1 4
Other Tournaments 3 8

scruff321 · 29-01-2008 10:20PM

i think that the fact alot of people dont rate robbie keane is down to somewhat irish begrudgery,in other countries people strive to be like so callled "successful people" but in ireland most people just look at people who may be in a better situation or living a life they would prefere and just slag off or turn there noses up at these people.robbie keane is without shaddow of a doubt irelands best striker hence why he is top goalscorer even though he has taken a dip in form over the last few years the facts speak for themselves,he plays better with better players and a manager who can motivate a player of his quality

Xavi6 · 29-01-2008 10:54PM

I despise Robbie Keane for his general play. Too many step overs, dummies and all that fancy b*llox is the reason he is not a 'Top 4' striker.

Now having said that he does know where the goal is and fair play to him for banging them in this season. He is Ireland's best striker but as we have little of no one so it's not exactly something to be immensely proud of.

He has underperformed in many big games for us when needed (a few as captain might I add) and has been a constant source of my frustration over the years. So for me he's average.

scruff321 · 29-01-2008 11:19PM

Xavi6 wrote: »

I despise Robbie Keane for his general play. Too many step overs, dummies and all that fancy b*llox is the reason he is not a 'Top 4' striker.

Now having said that he does know where the goal is and fair play to him for banging them in this season. He is Ireland's best striker but as we have little of no one so it's not exactly something to be immensely proud of.

He has underperformed in many big games for us when needed (a few as captain might I add) and has been a constant source of my frustration over the years. So for me he's average.

i would have agreed with you but the last 2 seasons i think robbie keane has cut out all that step over bollox and has really matured as a player eg he squared the ball to lennon when he could have had a shot againstarsenal in the carling cup ,i do believe he could cut it defo in the top four more clinical then kuyt,tevez,rooney,shevshenko,kalou,saha (ok he doesnt get his game much) just the fact is hes not english and hes not brazilian so they dont rate him in england

Xavi6 · 29-01-2008 11:26PM

scruff321 wrote: »

just the fact is hes not english and hes not brazilian so they dont rate him in england

So Berbatov, Adebayor, Torres aren't rated either by that definition

scruff321 · 29-01-2008 11:37PM

ok fair enough i was just using the fact that hes irish and not from the continent or south american etc as an example i mean the english press dont shut up about the likes of rooney and tevez aswell as other players who arent performing as well as robbie, the last 2 years keane has really uped his game at club level developed a partnership with berbatov whish is probably the best in england.

Pigman II · 29-01-2008 11:38PM

Des how are you such an aficionado on how good Stapleton is/was? He was pretty much finished as a top-player by 1990 so I doubt you saw much of him in his prime?

Keane is a class act. He's proven that he can deliver the goods at any club that'll give him a chance. I think people see him acting the maggot on the pitch and it's all they take away from the experience. He's got natural skill and a phenomonal strike rate considering the teams he plays for (Ireland/Spurs.)

Blackjack · 30-01-2008 01:05AM

Top scorer in the last calendar year.
Check out the last games of the season here.

Yep, he must be Rubbish alright.

Xavi6 · 30-01-2008 01:13AM

Blackjack wrote: »

Top scorer in the last calendar year.
Check out the last games of the season here.

Yep, he must be Rubbish alright.

I don't think anyone is really questioning his goals. The facts speak for themselves.

However, he is a deeply frustrating player to watch in general play with his tricks and flicks that rarely come off. That is why he is not one of the top strikers in the game.

Blackjack · 30-01-2008 01:23AM

Xavi6 wrote: »

I don't think anyone is really questioning his goals. The facts speak for themselves.

However, he is a deeply frustrating player to watch in general play with his tricks and flicks that rarely come off. That is why he is not one of the top strikers in the game.

He's also been in the top 10 Premiership goalscorers for the last 2 seasons, and will likely end up there this year as well.

With that record, how can you say he's not one of the top strikers?. Just because he's not a flair player, you can hardly write him off for that. His Job is to score goals. He does.

Xavi6 · 30-01-2008 01:25AM

Blackjack wrote: »

He's also been in the top 10 Premiership goalscorers for the last 2 seasons, and will likely end up there this year as well.

With that record, how can you say he's not one of the top strikers?. Just because he's not a flair player, you can hardly write him off for that. His Job is to score goals. He does.

I already said he's a good goalscorer so I don't anymore facts on that thanks.

You're right, he's not a flair player, yet he tries his utmost to be one when there's no need. That is why he is frustrating.

WhiteWashMan · 30-01-2008 01:38AM

great player. great goalscorer. great heart. great presence.

Xavi6 · 30-01-2008 01:47AM

WhiteWashMan wrote: »

great player. great goalscorer. great heart. great presence.

Sounds like you're talking about two different players in that comment. He hasn't shown much heart or presence for Ireland in a long time, more so since he was made captain

Mad_Max · 30-01-2008 03:01AM

Have you lost money on bets involving keane Xavi?? You seem easily frustrated by Keane.

Does duff not frustrate you as much? Does Doyle? Does Reid? etc etc 'cause they all play as bad if not worse than him at times for Ireland.

He is a top drawer player. simple as. The stats say it and I believe his general play does too. I don't think spurs are the same without him and clearly ramos doesn't think so either. He seems happy enough to let defoe go and rely on keano as berb's foil.

Arguing that he doesn't score against the top nations is a non argument imo. If you regard the top teams as say the top 10, then since 2000 Keane has played in 16 games scoring 6, In no way a bad return for international level. But in anyway, if these smaller teams are so easy to score against why doesnt the rest of the team have as high a goal tally. so I'm sorry I don't buy that argument.

About the top 4 argument. I personally believe he should be in one of them. I can't believe for a second anyone would rate voronin or kuyt ahead of him for starters. But remember this, Spurs were very close to breaking that top 4 not that long ago. Ok they've had a blip this year but if they had of cracked the top 4, would that argument still apply or would he magicly have gained the top class player status he seems to be denied by some.

Also, maybe he wants to stay at spurs. He was labelled a wanderer when he went from club to club. Then he settles and we want him to move again.

He is also vice-captain for spurs and captain( though maybe not much longer) of Ireland. He MUST have something going in the leadership department. Whatever about staunton being a donkey, I don't think either Jol or Ramos are and they are convinced by him.

I think its sad that we are almost worse than the english now at jumping on our top players (albeit we dont have as many).

I think it's safe to assume I voted he is class and underrated

Xavi6 · 30-01-2008 03:06AM

Well in response to that, I will again say I have never once questioned his goals and he is Ireland's best striker of all time.

He is NOT a leader, whether it be club or country. Watch Keane closely when he plays. He tries to do little flicks instead of getting the ball tight to his feet and playing simply. You say I'm easily fristrated. If he did that sort of sh1te in one or two games then yes I'd have no cause for complaint. But he has done it all through his career, right back to the game he scored the winner for Wolves against City. He scores goals but his general play prevents him from falling into the 'world class' category for me.

To say I am wrong for something I have seen him do for years now is b*llox

P.S. And no I haven't lost any money on him. I know better than to bet on anything that involves Ireland.

Robbie keane

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