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Robbie keane

13

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,322 ✭✭✭Mad_Max


    Xavi6 wrote: »
    P.S. And no I haven't lost any money on him. I know better than to bet on anything that involves Ireland.

    Touche!.

    I would argue that he's all tricks and flicks though!. I think his play this season for example has been excellent. He does play a lot of simple passes and does bring others into the game.

    Yes I'd agree that earlier in his career that might have been the case but thats just the nature of learning the game. I mean Ronaldo was the biggest example of this, he learned and is now considered the best in the world by some.
    Im not comparing the two, just stating that Keane has improved and changed as a player and as such deserves recognition on what he is doing now.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,077 ✭✭✭✭Xavi6


    Mad_Max wrote: »
    just stating that Keane has improved and changed as a player and as such deserves recognition on what he is doing now.

    But he is getting recognition. Everyone is lavishing him with praise. There is a big difference being simple recognition and going over the top though. He's a good striker, not a world class one.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 36,714 ✭✭✭✭LuckyLloyd


    Xavi6 wrote: »
    I despise Robbie Keane for his general play. Too many step overs, dummies and all that fancy b*llox is the reason he is not a 'Top 4' striker.

    Now having said that he does know where the goal is and fair play to him for banging them in this season. He is Ireland's best striker but as we have little of no one so it's not exactly something to be immensely proud of.

    He has underperformed in many big games for us when needed (a few as captain might I add) and has been a constant source of my frustration over the years. So for me he's average.

    !!?? He's also done it for Ireland in a lot of big games too!!??


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 729 ✭✭✭scruff321


    xavi you keep on refering to his attempte at tricks and flicks but if you have been watching keane regularly at spurs like i have you would see that he has cut that sh/t out of his game over the past 2 or 3 seasons..he plays simple passes,shoots when the time arises but also makes the righ decision to pass instead,and he has also trimmed down alot in wieght making him faster and a more complete player..if he hadnt ahd that few year blip in his club career hed be playing for a top side in europe.also imo hed bag alot of goals on any top 4 side if he was givin the chance.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,077 ✭✭✭✭Xavi6


    scruff321 wrote: »
    xavi you keep on refering to his attempte at tricks and flicks but if you have been watching keane regularly at spurs like i have you would see that he has cut that sh/t out of his game over the past 2 or 3 seasons..he plays simple passes,shoots when the time arises but also makes the righ decision to pass instead,and he has also trimmed down alot in wieght making him faster and a more complete player..if he hadnt ahd that few year blip in his club career hed be playing for a top side in europe.also imo hed bag alot of goals on any top 4 side if he was givin the chance.


    If he can cut it out for Spurs then why hasn't he done it for Ireland?


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,077 ✭✭✭✭Xavi6


    LuckyLloyd wrote: »
    !!?? He's also done it for Ireland in a lot of big games too!!??

    Off the top of my head the Germany game in 2002 is the only big game that springs to mind. I'm sure I'll be inundated with claims of other games he's done it in but right now that's all I can recall, unless you want to include friendlies.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,322 ✭✭✭Mad_Max


    Xavi6 wrote: »
    If he can cut it out for Spurs then why hasn't he done it for Ireland?

    So the nub of your enitre keane argument is why isnt he doing it for ireland.

    Is it only him that hasn't performed during the last campaign. NO, no-one did.
    What exactly has he to do? Score more? Hes the leading scorer. Assist more maybe? sure he might aswel jump in goal and keep some clean sheets.

    Using his performances in a below par internation team as a measure of HIS ability is not accurate or fair.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,077 ✭✭✭✭Xavi6


    Mad_Max wrote: »
    So the nub of your enitre keane argument is why isnt he doing it for ireland.

    Is it only him that hasn't performed during the last campaign. NO, no-one did.
    What exactly has he to do? Score more? Hes the leading scorer. Assist more maybe? sure he might aswel jump in goal and keep some clean sheets.

    Using his performances in a below par internation team as a measure of HIS ability is not accurate or fair.

    I understand what you're saying and yes he is playing in a limited team BUT as captain his role is to lead by example and encourage his team. He went missing during many of the qualifiers and didn't step up to the plate when needed.

    Look he is a good player, he does score goals but he is not a world class striker imo based on his all round game no matter how well he is playing at the moment.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 36,714 ✭✭✭✭LuckyLloyd


    Xavi6 wrote: »
    Off the top of my head the Germany game in 2002 is the only big game that springs to mind. I'm sure I'll be inundated with claims of other games he's done it in but right now that's all I can recall, unless you want to include friendlies.

    He scored:

    - At home vs Yugoslavia in a crunch qualifier;
    - At home vs Turkey and Iran in vital playoff games;
    - Away vs Holland in a qualifier;
    - In three of four world cup games;
    - At home vs Israel under Kerr;

    Everyone was rubbish under Staunton.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,077 ✭✭✭✭Xavi6


    Xavi6 wrote: »
    I'm sure I'll be inundated with claims of other games he's done it in
    LuckyLloyd wrote: »
    He scored:

    - At home vs Yugoslavia in a crunch qualifier;
    - At home vs Turkey and Iran in vital playoff games;
    - Away vs Holland in a qualifier;
    - In three of four world cup games;
    - At home vs Israel under Kerr;

    Everyone was rubbish under Staunton.

    And there it is.

    Again they're goals. I'm rating him on his overall play and in my mind he's not world class.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,121 ✭✭✭✭chopperbyrne


    He is a striker. His job is to get goals, which he has done quite well.

    Saying he can do it for Spurs so why not Ireland is a ludicrous statement.

    The people he plays with for Ireland are not as good as the people he plays with for Spurs.

    Many people have already stated he has cut out a lot of the crap that he used to do, but if all you're seeing of him is Match of the Day highlights, then of course they're going to show attempted pieces of skill that may or may not have worked.

    Two top class managers have seen fit to make him the number one striker at Spurs and club vice-captain.

    Face it Xavi, this time you're wrong.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,077 ✭✭✭✭Xavi6


    He is a striker. His job is to get goals, which he has done quite well.

    Saying he can do it for Spurs so why not Ireland is a ludicrous statement.

    The people he plays with for Ireland are not as good as the people he plays with for Spurs.

    Many people have already stated he has cut out a lot of the crap that he used to do, but if all you're seeing of him is Match of the Day highlights, then of course they're going to show attempted pieces of skill that may or may not have worked.

    Two top class managers have seen fit to make him the number one striker at Spurs and club vice-captain.

    Face it Xavi, this time you're wrong.

    Firstly we don't get MOTD highlights in Australia.

    Secondly I agree with everyone who has said his job is to get goals because he is clearly doing that. I do watch Keane play regularly for both Spurs and Ireland. World class is a big title to bestow on a player and for me he is not in the A grade of world strikers.

    The OP asked if Robbie Keane is underrated. I say no he is not underrated because everyone is saying he is playing well. There are people however who are blowing the good form out of all proportion by labelling him as world class.

    I'm not wrong by any means, I just don't agree with you.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,617 ✭✭✭✭PHB


    Xavi6 wrote: »
    Firstly we don't get MOTD highlights in Australia.

    www.tvcatchup.com

    Works a treat


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 41,926 ✭✭✭✭_blank_


    PHB wrote: »
    www.tvcatchup.com

    Works a treat

    :confused:
    To access this service, you must be:

    a resident of the United Kingdom

    in posession of, or covered by, a valid TV Licence

    Your IP Address is not registered as originating from within the borders of the United Kingdom.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,322 ✭✭✭Mad_Max


    I guess i'll have to agree with you Xavi in that I probably wouldn't rate him as world class. I think thats a term thrown around too loosely and imo the only real world class strikers would be RVN, Henry, Eto'o and maybe ronaldo (Yeah i think he's still good).

    But i think the thread is about him being class in his league and underrated in his league. He is top drawer in the premiership and because he isnt in the 'big 4' i think he is underrated by some, and criticising his Irish performances is underrating him in a way too.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,617 ✭✭✭✭PHB


    Ah suckage, hmm. I would suggest you try and access it through an IP randomising or a proxy.
    http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20070929063947AAveQHN seems to be a good bet


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 14,013 ✭✭✭✭eirebhoy


    Xavi6 wrote: »
    Sounds like you're talking about two different players in that comment. He hasn't shown much heart or presence for Ireland in a long time, more so since he was made captain
    Ah c'mon. He's one of the few players that realises how priviledged he is to be playing for us. He's one of the few players that would feel the emotion the rugby players did when the national anthems played before the England match at Croker. He runs his socks off for Ireland.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 14,013 ✭✭✭✭eirebhoy


    As for his leadership skills. He's regarded as the main man by the Spurs players anyway apparently.

    Martin Jol article.
    In the Tottenham dressing room I pinned up a motto: “The Team is the Star”. If any player sums up that philosophy, it’s Robbie Keane. Normally it’s not the best combination to have a striker as your skipper. Robbie is different. He’ll do any job a manager asks and seeks togetherness with teammates socially as well as on the pitch. Character-wise, if you had 11 Robbie Keanes on your side, you’d have a chance of winning any game.

    Robbie doesn’t play the game for personal accolades but deserves any which come his way, and yesterday he reached 100 against Sunderland. Only two other players in the past 30 years have reached a century. Their identities, Teddy Sheringham and Glenn Hoddle, show how special it is. At Spurs, Robbie is appreciated, the fans regularly voting him player of the year, but I wonder whether in the country he gets the recognition he deserves. He is only 27 and hardly any other striker in England comes up with the goods so regularly. He’s worth £15m to £20m - at least. Nobody scored more times in the Premier League in the calendar year of 2007 than Robbie. But the statistic which is even more revealing involves his number of goals away from home. It’s about 50%, and it’s a very rare footballer who performs as well in hostile stadiums as on his own ground. In my time as Spurs manager, Dimitar Berbatov didn’t come close to 50%. Robbie’s consistency is a result of his coolness and character. It’s a big reason why after two years of saying “I have three first-choice strikers though only two can play”, I changed my policy and announced “Robbie is my No 1”.

    In my first six months it was difficult for Robbie, he was a substitute almost as often as he played from the start. He moaned, like most footballers would, but his effort and performance didn’t drop in training or in games. He scored a number of important goals during that period coming on as a substitute and that reflected well on him. Many strikers you put on the bench sit there with a miserable face and when you send them on, their attitude is: “I’m only involved for 20 minutes, what can I do? If I don’t score nobody will complain.”

    Robbie would charge onto the pitch, desperate to get a goal and a win for the team. And when he played from the start and I substituted him, he hated it. He’d rather stay on the pitch and move to left-back than clock off early. This made him a great player to have when you needed to make a tactical change.

    You could tell Robbie to move wide and close down the full-backs to stop the opposition starting attacks from the flanks, and he’d do it happily. Similarly, with Berbatov being a real No 9 I needed his partner to be more of a No 10 and Robbie adapted without asking questions. He developed into a good provider of assists.

    When I first set eyes on the Tottenham squad, I would not have put Robbie among those who stood out as natural athletes. Then we did the physical tests. Quickest over 10 yards? Robbie. Over 20? Robbie was second only to Ledley King. Stamina? He was near the top in those tests. Later, Aaron Lennon would arrive and take the mantle of the club’s top speed merchant but Robbie (and Ledley) still ran him close.

    On top of that, I’d seldom seen a player who could score in such a variety of ways. Robbie gets goals with his right foot, left foot, from volleys, chips and free kicks. The only things he can’t do are tackle and head the ball. He has an ability with penalties which is almost unique - most players decide in advance which side they’ll put the ball but Robbie runs up, watches the keeper and makes his choice in the very last milliseconds.

    Off the pitch he can be a funny guy. I’ve always enjoyed having Irishmen in my dressing room. They love companionship. In my experience, they do everything they can to ensure there’s a good atmosphere and spirit, whether it’s organising games on the team bus or sitting down next to a guy who is by himself in the training ground canteen. Andy Reid was similar. I remember on a preseason trip to France, Andy and Robbie leading everyone in a round of singing until 4am. I didn’t want to stop them, I thought: “This is what a football team is all about.”

    In Holland we say: “Be a man in the night and a man in the morning.” That means if you want to stay out until the early hours having a drink, don’t be a sissy the next day. Be a man and get on with your work. Irish players are like that.

    Robbie is good at making new players welcome. Some fans didn’t agree, but when Ledley was injured he was my automatic choice to be captain. It puzzled me that only once during my time did another club - Everton - try to buy him. I look at some of the strikers being signed by Europe’s top clubs and think Robbie’s better. It would have been nice if goal No 100 had come against Arsenal on Tuesday but I knew Robbie would score yesterday.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 36,714 ✭✭✭✭LuckyLloyd


    eirebhoy wrote: »
    Ah c'mon. He's one of the few players that realises how priviledged he is to be playing for us. He's one of the few players that would feel the emotion the rugby players did when the national anthems played before the England match at Croker. He runs his socks off for Ireland.

    Yes, yes, yes. Where did this rubbish perception that he doesn't try for Ireland come from?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 17,122 ✭✭✭✭Nalz


    Xavi6 wrote: »
    I despise Robbie Keane for his general play. Too many step overs, dummies and all that fancy b*llox is the reason he is not a 'Top 4' striker.

    Robbie Keane is not a world class striker, then again is Kuyt, Vorrinin, Crouch, Saha, Pizzaro, Kalou, Bendtner, Eduardo? He is a very good striker who can be frustrating at times, but most of the players in that list above can define the word frustrating.

    Also I think at this stage we need a definition for "top 4", cas it aint what it used to be.

    Although Robbie has played in WC finals, Stapleton had better players playing with him in his Ireland career - Brady, McGrath, Whealan, O Leary and the likes. hard to compare with the different eras and style, but there is no vast difference in terms of ability and importance to a side between the two.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,322 ✭✭✭Mad_Max


    I dont think there are any true world class strikers in the premiership really.

    Torres could be, Rooney for some i suppose, maybe drogba but none would really be considered the best around the world say like RVN.

    In terms of 'top 4' strikers (IMO). I suppose drogs is there for me. He has done it now for a few seasons. Rooney when on form (patchy season), Adebayour on this seasons form is up there, and same for torres. Berbs is also class and should be there.

    Oh and keane :p


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,617 ✭✭✭✭PHB


    I find it funny that people say that RVN is a world class striker, but forget that he was pushed out of the team by Saha. Different types of strikers work in different types of systems. For me, Drogba is probably the best in the world for the type of system he works in. RVN is probably the best finisher in the world, and works great within the current Real system, but wasn't working great within the old United system.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,584 ✭✭✭shane86


    Mad_Max wrote: »
    Is it only him that hasn't performed during the last campaign. NO, no-one did.
    .


    Bar Doyle, Hunt, Andy Reid, Duff and Given when they were fit enough to play, Finnan, even Kilbane......


    Eirebhoy- yep. He runs his socks off. He pants, huffs and puffs his way around the pitch, and throws his arms in the air. And complains alot over nothing.

    As for the stats, correct me if Im wrong but wasnt the last goal he scored in an away game against a decent team during WC 2002? Thats approaching 6 years.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 34,404 ✭✭✭✭~Rebel~


    Its also hard to look at Shevchenko's career and not call him world class too.

    He's the exception that proves PHB's point on Drogba. Where drogba is the best in the world for Chelsea's system, Sheva is quite the opposite.

    Horses for courses. I'd go with Eto'o as the best all rounder.

    Subscribe to save Boards.ie from closing down: The Bad News

    https://subscriptions.boards.ie/



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 36,714 ✭✭✭✭LuckyLloyd


    PHB wrote: »
    I find it funny that people say that RVN is a world class striker, but forget that he was pushed out of the team by Saha. Different types of strikers work in different types of systems. For me, Drogba is probably the best in the world for the type of system he works in. RVN is probably the best finisher in the world, and works great within the current Real system, but wasn't working great within the old United system.

    Always wondered about that. He was still banging them in during his last season at Utd.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,617 ✭✭✭✭PHB


    He was, but in order to get him those goals, the players had to play in a way that did not work towards their strengths. The system was based around him, and it didn't work. Because of this, his goalscoring rate did drop somewhat, in comparison to his earlier seasons when the system actually worked for him.
    That's why he was dropped, and eventually sold because he didn't want to sit on the bench.

    People put too much emphasis on players these days, when in reality the system is what is most important. Picking a system that gets the best out of the players you have is the toughest part of being a manager, and sometimes the best managers sacrifice their 'best' players in order to get a better system.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 41,926 ✭✭✭✭_blank_


    PHB wrote: »
    People put too much emphasis on players these days, when in reality the system is what is most important. Picking a system that gets the best out of the players you have is the toughest part of being a manager, and sometimes the best managers sacrifice their 'best' players in order to get a better system.
    This is the best, most inspired, piece of a post I've seen on Boards.ie in a long long, long time.

    It's so true.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,322 ✭✭✭Mad_Max


    shane86 wrote: »
    Bar Doyle, Hunt, Andy Reid, Duff and Given when they were fit enough to play, Finnan, even Kilbane......

    Sorry, I disregarded all you said after Duff. Simply did not perform. Hunt was used as sub and in the game he got his start he wasn't anywhere near as good. I'd agree that reid was good toward the end but was he not frustrating for large periods??


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,684 ✭✭✭FatherTed


    Mad_Max wrote: »
    Sorry, I disregarded all you said after Duff. Simply did not perform. Hunt was used as sub and in the game he got his start he wasn't anywhere near as good. I'd agree that reid was good toward the end but was he not frustrating for large periods??

    Also Hunt did a great job getting himself sent off against the Czechs.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,942 ✭✭✭missingtime


    PHB wrote: »
    People put too much emphasis on players these days, when in reality the system is what is most important. Picking a system that gets the best out of the players you have is the toughest part of being a manager, and sometimes the best managers sacrifice their 'best' players in order to get a better system.

    Is that not what Rafa is doing now i.e. playing a team designed to beat the opposition rather that going with a continuous regular 11.

    He gets a lot of stick for doing that.


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