Big Sam Sacked?!?

kinaldo · 10-01-2008 12:59AM

Mr Alan wrote: »

Cliches? these are cliches for a reason....because they are true.

Managers need time to turn underperforming poor teams into teams qualifying for Europe year in and year out.

The fact you said "GET IN!" in response to him being sacked gave me the impression that you were delighted. Apologies if it shouldnt?!

Yes. Delighted that I no longer have to look forward to the "football" we've played so often this season against the likes of Derby and Wigan.

I honestly think we have the makings of a good team, and a good manager will get us going.

And here's a cliche for you; anything can happen in football! So that negates all your other cliches.

As for the new manager, this season will now form the basis for next season. Nothing will be expected this season aside from "football". Not that hard.

Mr Alan · 10-01-2008 01:02AM

Ok....that was my point.....you were delighted he got the sack.....and were not willing to give him time. Hence the problem Newcastle fans face.

Will you only be willing to give someone the time if they are playing lovely football at the same time? if that is the case, expect no changes in Newcastles fortunes in the near future

kinaldo · 10-01-2008 01:03AM

BaZmO* wrote: »

Lawreson made a very good point on Football Focus a few weeks back about Newcastle. He said that there's a very large part of the Newcastle support that wouldn't mind losing a game as long as it was a 4-3 thriller.

Lawrenson has a habit of saying the exact opposite of how most Newcastle fans feel. He hates us, we hate him. He was once our '"defensive coach", a role that was short lived.

genericgoon · 10-01-2008 01:05AM

I just checked and Man U have had 8 managers since...... World War 2. Lulz.

Thanx 4 The Fish · 10-01-2008 01:07AM

Well in fairness any team that ever had titus bramble in it never really stood a chance regardless of who was defensive coach.

kinaldo · 10-01-2008 01:08AM

Mr Alan wrote: »

Ok....that was my point.....you were delighted he got the sack.....and were not willing to give him time. Hence the problem Newcastle fans face.

Will you only be willing to give someone the time if they are playing lovely football at the same time? if that is the case, expect no changes in Newcastles fortunes in the near future

I was prepared to give him time. I'm a patient person. But now I don't have to and I'm quite happy. How hard is that for you to understand?

If we play decent football, or lovely football as you put it, then results should follow. Maybe not spectacular results. but results.

The only thing that is not acceptable is non-football combined mediocre results. That is why Big Sam was sacked - not the fans.

genericgoon · 10-01-2008 01:08AM

Actually Bramble is currently Wigans player/problem I think

Thanx 4 The Fish · 10-01-2008 01:09AM

That is correct, that is why I said, ever had him in their team.

Unearthly · 10-01-2008 01:10AM

He's a fox in the box at Anfield though

Het-Field · 10-01-2008 01:10AM

I hereby pledge my support for Sam Allardyce to become manager of the Irish National Football team. A man does not become a poor manager overnight. Newcastle are a team who hold themselves in too high an esteem. Im a West Ham fan, however, Newcastle are no bigger or more successful then my team. In fact they have been the most consistent big spenders ( Chelsea only began buying big in 1998, Manure in 1998, Arsenal 1997) Since 1995 Newcastle have been paying 7 million here and 8 million there. Yet they have been a complete failure and have delivered nothing. Even Freddy Shephard forced the club into te inter toto cup, as "Newcastle were too big not to be in Europe"

1995
Les Ferdinand 7m
Warren Barton 4m
David Ginola 2m

1996
Faustino Asprilla 7m
Alan Shearer 15m

1997
J Dal Tommason 4m

1998
D.Ferguson 8 m
S. Guivarch 4m
D.Domi 4m

1999
K.Dyer 7m
Marchelino 5m
A.Goma 4m

2000
C.Cort 7m
D.Cordone 2m

2001
C.Bellamy 6m
L.Robert 11m
T Lua Lua 3m

2002
H.Viana 10m
J.Jenas 5m

2003
L.Bowyer

2004
N.Butt 3m
J.Milner 5m
P.Kluivert

2005
J.A.Boumong 8m
C.Babyaro 4m
M.Owen 17m
S.Parker 8m
Emre 5m
A.Luque 9m

2006
D.Duff 5 Million

2007
A.Smith 7m
M.Viduka 3m
Gerimi 1m

kinaldo · 10-01-2008 01:11AM

Thanx 4 The Fish wrote: »

Well in fairness any team that ever had titus bramble in it never really stood a chance regardless of who was defensive coach.

actually that was well before Bramble's time...

BaZmO* · 10-01-2008 01:11AM

kinaldo wrote: »

Lawrenson has a habit of saying the exact opposite of how most Newcastle fans feel. He hates us, we hate him. He was once our '"defensive coach", a role that was short lived.

Whether you all like him or not his point seems to be true.

kinaldo · 10-01-2008 01:14AM

Het-Field wrote: »

I hereby pledge my support for Sam Allardyce to become manager of the Irish National Football team. A man does not become a poor manager overnight. Newcastle are a team who hold themselves in too high an esteem. Im a West Ham fan, however, Newcastle are no bigger or more successful then my team. In fact they have been the most consistent big spenders ( Chelsea only began buying big in 1998, Manure in 1998, Arsenal 1997) Since 1995 Newcastle have been paying 7 million here and 8 million there. Yet they have been a complete failure and have delivered nothing. Even Freddy Shephard forced the club into te inter toto cup, as "Newcastle were too big not to be in Europe"

1995
Les Ferdinand 7m
Warren Barton 4m
David Ginola 2m

1996
Faustino Asprilla 7m
Alan Shearer 15m

1997
J Dal Tommason 4m

1998
D.Ferguson 8 m
S. Guivarch 4m
D.Domi 4m

1999
K.Dyer 7m
Marchelino 5m
A.Goma 4m

2000
C.Cort 7m
D.Cordone 2m

2001
C.Bellamy 6m
L.Robert 11m
T Lua Lua 3m

2002
H.Viana 10m
J.Jenas 5m

2003
L.Bowyer

2004
N.Butt 3m
J.Milner 5m
P.Kluivert

2005
J.A.Boumong 8m
C.Babyaro 4m
M.Owen 17m
S.Parker 8m
Emre 5m
A.Luque 9m

2006
D.Duff 5 Million

2007
A.Smith 7m
M.Viduka 3m
Gerimi 1m

Actually we are more successful than West Ham, and technically bigger by whatver criteria you use, but thanks for that.

kinaldo · 10-01-2008 01:16AM

BaZmO* wrote: »

Whether you all like him or not his point seems to be true.

Except that it's not true. It's a myth perpetuated by Sky and the likes of him, not the fans.

Mr Alan · 10-01-2008 01:18AM

Kinaldo-we could talk about this all night.

You cant say, i was willing to give him time, and then be delighted he got the sack....if you want things to change at Newcastle, you'll need to walk the walk as opposed to just talking the talk...ie,you'll need to put up with ****e performances and results, as a proven manager, with a track record (Big Sam) alters the many things that were wrong with the club.

As has been pointed out, Newcastle are mid-table at the minute and in no immediate danger of getting relegated

were at the start of a new transfer window giving a PROVEN manager, a chance to bolster his squad.

and has already been pointed out, Newcastle have a better home record than Liverpool this year

So if you honestly think that the results are wat got him the sack and not Ashley sitting with some of the most fickle and clueless fans in England i dont know wat i can say to change you mind.

goodnight.

Savman · 10-01-2008 01:20AM

kinaldo wrote: »

Actually we are more successful than West Ham, and technically bigger by whatver criteria you use, but thanks for that.

Seriously kinaldo, delusion affects your senses. Both teams remarkably similar. Newcastle are undoubtedly a very well supported team, the envy of many other teams in fact. That does not make you a "big club" - only those who challenge in Europe and for domestic competitions can really claim to be a big club. It's not a status based on how many fans you have, but on your level of sustained success, of which you have none.
Trust me, I know from many years experience, midtable mediocrity is difficult to live with.

kinaldo · 10-01-2008 01:22AM

Home form my arse. We've been sh1te at home and abysmal away, if that's better than Pool then they have problems.

And no I couldn't talk about this all night because frankly I'm quite bored now. I've said my piece and you genuinely don't understand me, so whatever.

Looking forward to the new manager thread.

Mr Alan · 10-01-2008 01:24AM

Savman wrote: »

Seriously kinaldo, delusion affects your senses. Both teams remarkably similar. Newcastle are undoubtedly a very well supported team, the envy of many other teams in fact. That does not make you a "big club" - only those who challenge in Europe and for domestic competitions can really claim to be a big club. It's not a status based on how many fans you have, but on your level of sustained success, of which you have none.
Trust me, I know from many years experience, midtable mediocrity is difficult to live with.

Mistake?

Big Fanbase-Yes
Well Supported-No

Savman · 10-01-2008 01:28AM

Mr Alan wrote: »

Mistake?

Big Fanbase-Yes
Well Supported-No

I am not opening that can of worms

kinaldo · 10-01-2008 01:28AM

Savman wrote: »

Seriously kinaldo, delusion affects your senses. Both teams remarkably similar. Newcastle are undoubtedly a very well supported team, the envy of many other teams in fact. That does not make you a "big club" - only those who challenge in Europe and for domestic competitions can really claim to be a big club. It's not a status based on how many fans you have, but on your level of sustained success, of which you have none.
Trust me, I know from many years experience, midtable mediocrity is difficult to live with.

I have no delusions of grandeur.

There's a scale right. It measures in various ways. Trophies being the number one criteria. Then comes stature, fanbase, stadium size, average attendance, income, expenditure etc.

Some guy said we're no bigger "or successful" than West Ham - yes we are. We can start at the beginning of English football and look at how many trophies have been attained, or we can talk about the Premiership and how Newcastle in one less season than most are still 5th in the overall Premiership table. And West Ham consider top 6 'success'.

PHB · 10-01-2008 01:32AM

No matter what you think of any manager, you only have to look at Big Sams record. They won't get somebody else of his record, not a chance. Not only that, because they are so stupid about sacking managers and not giving them a chance, they are gona have trouble attracting any decent managers.

kinaldo · 10-01-2008 01:32AM

Mr Alan wrote: »

Well Supported-No

Average home attendance?

Away support reuglarly tops 5k.

Well supported- yes.

eirebhoy · 10-01-2008 01:41AM

Het-Field wrote: »

I hereby pledge my support for Sam Allardyce to become manager of the Irish National Football team.

I'm sorry but is the manager that left Emre on the bench for most of the season. He's a long ball merchant and we don't have the players for that. In fact we do. He'd probably play Morrison, Kilbane and O'Shea in favour of Doyle, Andy Reid and Ireland.

Boring stats comparison since he left Bolton and joined Newcaslte...

Bolton:

[B]               06/07             07/08[/b]
[B]Player             Passes/90 minutes (Success)[/B]

N.Hunt         32 (57&#37;)          26 (62%)
T.B.Haim       36 (63%)          49 (92%)
A.Meite        27 (71%)          22 (78%)
A.Faye         33 (66%)          31 (75%) Still playing under Sam

I.Campo        43 (71%)          45 (72%)
G.Speed        39 (70%)          36 (72%)
K.Nolan        26 (69%)          20 (76%)
E.H.Diouf      30 (73%)          30 (76%)

N.Anelka       25 (72%)          23 (73%)
K.Davies       37 (52%)          33 (55%)
[B]Total/Average  328 (66.4%)       315 (73.1%)[/B]

Newcastle:

[B]               06/07             07/08[/b]
[B]Player             Passes/90 minutes (Success)[/B]

H.Beye         -                 26 (66%)
D.Rozehnal     -                 31 (76%)
S.Taylor       36 (72%)          29 (76%)
C.N'Zogbia     31 (75%)          32 (69%)

N.Butt         50 (73%)          42 (74%)
Geremi         55 (76%)          41 (77%)
A.Smith        35 (77%)          33 (72%)
J.Milner       33 (72%)          26 (68%)

M.Viduka       32 (70%)          29 (67%)
O.Martins      27 (77%)          21 (71%)
[B]Total/Average   - (74%)          310 (71.6%)[/B]

Mr Alan · 10-01-2008 01:47AM

kinaldo wrote: »

Average home attendance?

Away support reuglarly tops 5k.

Well supported- yes.

ahhhh ya see, thats where we disagree.....numbers does not equal good support, it means you have a big fan base.

Savman · 10-01-2008 01:51AM

kinaldo wrote: »

I have no delusions of grandeur.

There's a scale right. It measures in various ways. Trophies being the number one criteria. Then comes stature, fanbase, stadium size, average attendance, income, expenditure etc.

Some guy said we're no bigger "or successful" than West Ham - yes we are. We can start at the beginning of English football and look at how many trophies have been attained, or we can talk about the Premiership and how Newcastle in one less season than most are still 5th in the overall Premiership table. And West Ham consider top 6 'success'.

Why what do the toon consider success? Top 6 is actually considered "success" in the modern game, because it's virtually a path into Europe. Then you can get more income for the club and attract better players etc. Newcastle were, and still are, very capable of a Top 6 finish but it would take a mammoth effort by the players...and possible the fans too. IMHO you just hit the self destruct button, when personally I thought yiz were on the verge of turning a corner. Milner, Martins, Owen & co. are all good players and you were never in any danger in fairness.

Changing managers now so abruptly can only disrupt the club further. If Ashley never wanted Allardyce, fair enough, but it just demonstrates how badly things are being done off the field as well as on it.

kinaldo · 10-01-2008 01:52AM

Mr Alan wrote: »

ahhhh ya see, thats where we disagree.....numbers does not equal good support, it means you have a big fan base.

What makes for bad support? The lack of atmosphere that is shared amongst the Premiership clubs, or minority sections of a crown booing when 3-0 down at home to Pompey after 15 minutes? Excuse us for not singing "we're gonna win 4-3" at that stage (although some probably did).

smog · 10-01-2008 01:53AM

PHB wrote: »

No matter what you think of any manager, you only have to look at Big Sams record. They won't get somebody else of his record, not a chance. Not only that, because they are so stupid about sacking managers and not giving them a chance, they are gona have trouble attracting any decent managers.

It is not his record.
It is the fact that :

1. the owner didn't appoint him
2. there is some friction with ashley and sam. (Ashley is very public in the crowd and sam refuses to even do a post match interview)
3. letting it settle (even though i thought the timing/pre-support was wrong) i think its better off.
4. Harry has a lovely style of tactics and is complete wheeler dealer, not bad appointment if that was to be the case.
5. we have a tough run, let go off the man u game - was never coming to happen the way we were playing, bring in someone after (or mid run) to kick the run up for a 6/7 position and an idea of what to look for during the summer transfer)
6. Ashley has aready plugged a 75M !!!! debt without blinking an eyelid, we have a Roman Abramovich, and if he want his fantasy team, he needs HIS manager. let him do as he pleases from what ive seen so far. THe past does not count to him. so what if we have had a ton of managers, some of them have been great, but none of them have been Ashleys!

kinaldo · 10-01-2008 01:58AM

Savman wrote: »

Why what do the toon consider success? Top 6 is actually considered "success" in the modern game, because it's virtually a path into Europe.

Newcastle are quite a successful Premiership club then... oh how we've fallen. Success this season would have been top 6 or 7. In order for that to happen now we would have to suddenly start playing actual football between now and May.

smog · 10-01-2008 01:58AM

Newcastle and Man City are the biggest "Fan-Based" supported in the PL. No matter what division they would end up in. Fans would turn out in 4 foot of snow. And only avoid a game to make a point!

Never a prawn sandwich brigade to be seen. Everyone is there for one reason only, watching FOOTBALL ...And every supporter has been to the ground unlike certain clubs supported by prebesant asian kids dreaming of golden balls .

Savman · 10-01-2008 02:00AM

smog wrote: »

let him do as he pleases from what ive seen so far. THe past does not count to him.

So you'd have no objection to changing the official club colours? How about renaming the team itself? "Ashley Stadium" has a nice ring to it.

Big Sam Sacked?!?

Comments