Family dog kills one-year-old boy

Mairt wrote: »

Post #34 in this thread is worth reading.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=54749027&posted=1#post54749027

Thanks Mairt

Here it is again, for the AH gen-pop



This is pure speculation now (because I wasn't there) but that Rottweiler needn't have been "viscous" at all for this to happen.

Here's the theoretical scenario:

The grandparents keep the dog mostly in the back garden, he's supposed to guard the property after all. He does get his walks, he gets his food, he's well cared for. Every now and then he's even let inside to lie by the fireside for a while.

When the older kids come around, they are introduced to him and they can pet him under supervision of the grandparents.

Everything is fine, the dog is regarded as docile and that's that.

What the dog doesn't get, is proper training with the kids and taught proper rules how (not to) behave around them.

There probably were several occasions where the seven year old went out to the dog with something in her hands like a toy or a treat to give to the dog or play with him.

On these occassions, it is likely that the dog just snatched whatever the kid had in her hands and ran away with it ...played with it or ate it.

All in good fun ...isn't it hilarious ...

Nobody bothered to correct him for that behaviour ...sure, he's only playing, isn't he ...

So ...in the dogs' mind (because he was let away with it several times) ...whatever that seven year old brought outside was his ...to play with or to eat. And it was his for the taking.

On the night of the tragic accident, the seven year old didn't walk out with a toy or a goodie though ...it was the baby.

The dog doesn't know that (he's probably never "met" the baby before) ...all he sees is his sparring partner with something very interesting in her arms. By habit, this interesting thing is also his to play with ...so he goes for it.
The seven year old most likely pulls the baby away and starts screaming.

Tragically, this is the point where the dog's natural instincts kick in: Something he wants is taken away from him ...there's shouting and excitement ...the "hunt" is on !

What was play to begin with becomes earnest ..he really goes for that poor baby, snatches it and runs away with it.

The baby cries, the other kids shout at him, try to pull the baby away, he even gets beaten by the older kid. The excitement grows, the adrenalin flows fast. So he just holds on tighter.

Whether the dog now has the intention to kill the baby, or whether he just holds it firmly because he regards it as his "toy" and doesn't want to release it is purely academic ...two, three hard bites and the baby is lethally injured.

I'm not saying this is how it happend ...but it could very well have.


Now ...all you dog owners ....think long and hard:

Have you let your dog away with just helping itself to whatever it was it wanted?
Have you had your kids play with the dog and the dog snatched something from them?
Have you taught your dog that snatching something from you or your kids is not allowed?
Do you allow your kids to play tug games with your dog?
Have you taught your dog to release things on command?

peasant wrote: »

Thanks Mairt

Here it is again, for the AH gen-pop



This is pure speculation now (because I wasn't there) but that Rottweiler needn't have been "viscous" at all for this to happen.

Here's the theoretical scenario:

The grandparents keep the dog mostly in the back garden, he's supposed to guard the property after all. He does get his walks, he gets his food, he's well cared for. Every now and then he's even let inside to lie by the fireside for a while.

When the older kids come around, they are introduced to him and they can pet him under supervision of the grandparents.

Everything is fine, the dog is regarded as docile and that's that.

What the dog doesn't get, is proper training with the kids and taught proper rules how (not to) behave around them.

There probably were several occasions where the seven year old went out to the dog with something in her hands like a toy or a treat to give to the dog or play with him.

On these occassions, it is likely that the dog just snatched whatever the kid had in her hands and ran away with it ...played with it or ate it.

All in good fun ...isn't it hilarious ...

Nobody bothered to correct him for that behaviour ...sure, he's only playing, isn't he ...

So ...in the dogs' mind (because he was let away with it several times) ...whatever that seven year old brought outside was his ...to play with or to eat. And it was his for the taking.

On the night of the tragic accident, the seven year old didn't walk out with a toy or a goodie though ...it was the baby.

The dog doesn't know that (he's probably never "met" the baby before) ...all he sees is his sparring partner with something very interesting in her arms. By habit, this interesting thing is also his to play with ...so he goes for it.
The seven year old most likely pulls the baby away and starts screaming.

Tragically, this is the point where the dog's natural instincts kick in: Something he wants is taken away from him ...there's shouting and excitement ...the "hunt" is on !

What was play to begin with becomes earnest ..he really goes for that poor baby, snatches it and runs away with it.

The baby cries, the other kids shout at him, try to pull the baby away, he even gets beaten by the older kid. The excitement grows, the adrenalin flows fast. So he just holds on tighter.

Whether the dog now has the intention to kill the baby, or whether he just holds it firmly because he regards it as his "toy" and doesn't want to release it is purely academic ...two, three hard bites and the baby is lethally injured.

I'm not saying this is how it happend ...but it could very well have.


Now ...all you dog owners ....think long and hard:

Have you let your dog away with just helping itself to whatever it was it wanted?
Have you had your kids play with the dog and the dog snatched something from them?
Have you taught your dog that snatching something from you or your kids is not allowed?
Do you allow your kids to play tug games with your dog?
Have you taught your dog to release things on command?

Is there a Dr Zoolittle methodology for training children?

Sonnenblumen wrote: »

Is there a Dr Zoolittle methodology for training children?

Although you were trying to be flippant, you've actually unwittingly highlighted an important point.

A wee story - just last week I was playing out ball with my little doggie in the park when this little kid of 4-5 ran over, completely hyped up by the sight of a dog playing with a ball, and for about 5 minutes he continually:

- chased my dog around while roaring his head off
- tried to kick her whenever he got near enough.
- tried to hit her with a thin branch of a tree he had picked up.

She kept trying to get away from him, and get near me, and he kept on after her, despite me repeatedly telling him to stop. All the time his mother was sitting there watching her little darling doing this and saying nothing.

Now my doggie is a placid little thing, but I could see her getting 'wound up' by the situation. She didn't retaliate, but she would have been justified if she had done. Hell I wanted to give the little bollox a kick up the hole.

Point is, people in general dont' understand the do's and don'ts of dealing with dogs. That education needs to start with adults and be passed on to children under supervision who are going to be in contact with dogs.

Should I worry that my sisters family have a Rotti living in their house? He's a beautiful beautiful creature, and I am a real dog-lover, but he does make me nervous for the children. They have two kids (5 and 2) and the dog goes to each of their bedrooms each night to check they're asleep before he retires himself (in the lounge on his own couch) He seems a very loyal and gentle dog but I still worry as you hear all these horror stories.

I'm scared to let my little girl sleep over in their house. Hell, I'm scared sleeping over there myself sometimes. He roams around the house freely. He's a show-winner, a beautiful, lean, strong, handsome dog. As I've said, he has never shown any signs of being a vicious creature, he's loyal and lovely, but is it true that a rottweiler can just turn at any given time?

Don't get me wrong, I think rottweilers are beautiful creatures and should never be banned completely. I just amn't too sure about rottis or any of the bull-terrier family being kept as family pets (and being left alone with children especially)

I'm not against any breed of dog in particular. I have a friend who has the most beautiful Staffordshire Bull Terriers, they are like children, real pets (but she has no children herself - she has been bitten herself, however, when two of her b*tches (Mother & Daughter) were having a tussle and she was seperating them. When these types of breeds get angry (as any living creature will at some stage) they are dangerous, you cannot deny that fact. I have a king charles myself (not my first choice of breed personally, but since I have a 3 year old I thought it would be the best choice as a little companion for her - they are so close and sometimes even sleep together, I know, no matter how angry the dog gets, she could do very little to harm my child, she's not physically capable of it)

I used to always defend pitt-bulls, staffies, rottis, etc to the last, but now that I'm faced with a situation where my small defenceless relatives could be in danger, I'm not too sure about the whole situation.....One attack from that massive rottweiler, and my little niece or nephew could be left blind or disfugured or worse...it's scary.....and whoever said a cat could make good work of a baby....for gods sake think about what yu've just said, do you really believe a little cat could do even close to as much damage as a 10 stone rotti with massive jaws and huge teeth?

Mairt wrote: »

Jesus man you sound like one windy fecker

Statistically your children are at greater risk of physical/sexual abuse from a family member than being attacked by a dog at that family members home!.

Statistically, more children must live with humans that are likely to inflict abuse, than with dogs that are likely to attack, so that's irrelevant. But if there is indeed even the smallest risk that a big heavy-weight dog with jaws that have a tendency to lock could indeed attack a child, for whatever reasons (ie. child could tease dog etc.....) why put the child (and the dog) into that situation on a day to day basis, and increase the risk.....

how am I windy?

I think my sisters Rottweiler is absolutely gorgeous and if I didn't have a small daughter myself, I'd be the proud owner of a gorgeous Staffie, but my question is, Mairt, is it true, that no matter how a Rottweiler is treated and raised, whether it's a family pet or a guard dog, there is a possibility that it has a vicious streak and can turn on its master or indeed a child with whom it has always been familiar? Or is that a Myth?

Mordeth wrote: »

there's the possibility that you are going to crash your car and kill the baby in the back seat... are you going to stop driving?

No, but I will drive with care and avoid any potential hazards. I will avoid, at all costs, taking any risks, obviously and especially when my child is in the car.

In this day and age, for many, driving is a necessity, especially when you live in an area with a poor public transport system and have a family/job/responsibilites to tend to.

I need to drive to go about my day-to-day business. So I do drive, I drive well, I don't take risks on the road or in my home with my child, yes every day there is going to be a risk of something happening to all of us, but at least, I will have a clear conscience that I avoided taking risks with my daughters life. I dont "need" a Rottweiler in my home, I can't think of many (or any) who do......yes, I may want one, yes, if I have one I may grow to love it etc, but I don't need it to aid me in my life, so that's a bullsh*t argument too.

Why would anyone put their own child at risk just because they personally want to own a rottweiler....for whatever reasons....I just find it hard to understand. I think it's a selfish and wreckless act for anyone to have a large and even just potentially dangerous dog in a home with children and unsupervised. When I was expecting my child, I got rid of a labrador that I absolutely loved to pieces. It would have been selfish to keep the dog in case he clashed with the baby or there was any accidents that could have been avoided.