Liverpool v Man Utd - Sunday 16th December

Melion · 10-12-2007 06:32PM

herbieflowers wrote: »

Reina's a good shot stopper but he's too dodgy at corners and susceptible to charging out of his box and messing up...Everton last season for example...VDS is solid, had a bad patch after breaking his nose vs Spurs last season but other than that he's as solid and reliable as they come...

If Pool come out to attack Utd could hurt them on the counter but I'd imagine Rafa will be conservative and play two holding midfielders...playing away will probably suit Man U's style more (like against Arsenal), still think it'll be decided by a setpiece

Reina has improved so much in these areas, he is without a doubt the 2nd best keeper in the premiership, far better than VDS.

whatawaster · 10-12-2007 06:33PM

And no way would I swap our back 5 as a unit, for United's. Reina, Finnan, Carra, Agger and Arbeloa are rock solid when fit, as are United's defence I know, there really is little to choose, Liverpool are great at holding a line, and defending set plays (bar saturday's hiccup of course)

Melion · 10-12-2007 06:33PM

herbieflowers wrote: »

Er, how is that baseless? Reina's height means he regularly misses or f***s up corners or crosses. Golden gloves? That has nothing to do with him being a better keeper than VDS...

Casillas isnt tall, Buffon isnt tall, Kahn isnt tall. They have all been at some stage of their career the best keeper in the world. You dont have to be tall to be a good kepper.

And yes of course it does, he had 19 clean sheets in 38 games, thats good goalkeeping.

herbieflowers · 10-12-2007 06:33PM

Melion wrote: »

Reina has improved so much in these areas, he is without a doubt the 2nd best keeper in the premiership, far better than VDS.

I beg to differ. I still think VDS reliability and all-round golakeeping skills trumps Reina's susceptibility to making grave errors

whatawaster · 10-12-2007 06:33PM

Melion wrote: »

Reina has improved so much in these areas, he is without a doubt the 2nd best keeper in the premiership, far better than VDS.

and he has a lovely shiny head.

whatawaster · 10-12-2007 06:34PM

herbieflowers wrote: »

I beg to differ. I still think VDS reliability and all-round golakeeping skills trumps Reina's susceptibility to making grave errors

what's the last grave error Reina has made? the anelka chance v bolton was Carra's fault.

Melion · 10-12-2007 06:35PM

herbieflowers wrote: »

I beg to differ. I still think VDS reliability and all-round golakeeping skills trumps Reina's susceptibility to making grave errors

Care to point out any errors since the Everton game last season?
And dont mention the Bolton game because he came out to clear the ball, called it but Carra didnt get out of his way(Carra's fault, not Pepe)

Unearthly · 10-12-2007 06:35PM

Melion wrote: »

And yes of course it does, he had 19 clean sheets in 38 games, thats good goalkeeping.

True, but also good defending. I didn't rate Reina last season but he has improved, don't see how he has leap frogged VDS though, who is mister consistent and performs excellent saves

Melion · 10-12-2007 06:37PM

Unearthly wrote: »

True, but also good defending. I didn't rate Reina last season but he has improved, don't see how he has leap frogged VDS though, who is mister consistent and performs excellent saves

He didnt have to "leapfrog" VDS, he has been better in the premiership since he came from Spain. IMO of course

whatawaster · 10-12-2007 06:37PM

Unearthly wrote: »

True, but also good defending. I didn't rate Reina last season but he has improved, don't see how he has leap frogged VDS though, who is mister consistent and performs excellent saves

Mister consistent = Reina (see clean sheet record)
Excellent saves = Reina (probably more so than any other prem keeper)

MrPillowTalk · 10-12-2007 06:38PM

whatawaster wrote: »

Deep back four? You know nothing about the way Liverpool play, which is about defending high up the pitch, defending as a team, attacking as a team.

I didnt say thats how they defend I said thats how you should hope they defend because if they leave space in behind Utds pace is going to do them.

herbieflowers · 10-12-2007 06:39PM

How about the FA Cup final in 2006? (granted, the penalty shoot-out) He was at fault for most, if not all, of WH's goals that day...

Chardee MacDennis · 10-12-2007 06:40PM

Call_me_al wrote: »

tbh from what i've seen i think I would take lucas over anderson, lucas seems to offer both defensive and attacking qualities, while anderson is only attacking. but i haven't seen that much of either to be sure.

MrPillowTalk wrote: »

LOL

p_larkin99 wrote: »

you clearly havent seen utd games this season as this statement is pure shíte. you judging him from FM or youtube?

the thing that has surpsried most UTD fans is that he is willing to defend

now i CLEARLY stated I haven't seen enough to be sure so either you're both just using selective reading or you're not the smartest...

I have seen every Liverpool game this season being a Liverpool fan, and Lucas has been very impressive. I haven't seen many full United matches, generally only highlights on MotD and while he has impressed in an attacking role, his defensive attributes have not stood out for me.

sure we'll see on Sunday...

Melion · 10-12-2007 06:41PM

herbieflowers wrote: »

How about the FA Cup final in 2006? (granted, the penalty shoot-out) He was at fault for most, if not all, of WH's goals that day...

Since the Everton game????

MrPillowTalk · 10-12-2007 06:41PM

IrishMike wrote: »

And you base this on what exactly?
Liverpool have the best defensive midfielder in the League in Mascherano.
Sissoko will probably also play which means a tackle every 36 seconds
even if his own team mate has the ball.
There will be no fluid gameplay and there will be no one destroyed on the break
as you put it.
The game will be won/lost by a goal probably from a set play.
As with all games between the top 4 it will be cagey and probably won by
either luck or a bit of magic which both teams are more than capable of.

This is basically what I said in my original post pool will most likely play Sissoko and Mascherano and just try to clog the whole game up in midfield without ever really trying to win it.

I said IF pool come on the attack Utd will do them on the break.

I also said pool will settle for a draw or try and win with a set piece ty for agreeing with me.

Unearthly · 10-12-2007 06:41PM

whatawaster wrote: »

Mister consistent = Reina (see clean sheet record)
Excellent saves = Reina (probably more so than any other prem keeper)

Reina is more prone to a mess up than VDS. As for the clean sheets, yes that shows good keeping, but excludes other factors such as the mistakes he made in the games he didn't keep clean sheets, or having a good defence infront of you(like he has)

and you are right, Reina wins shot stopper but VDS wins the most all rounder. Anyway think it's quite obvious neither of us want to change keepers so lets leave it at that

Melion · 10-12-2007 06:43PM

Unearthly wrote: »

Reina is more prone to a mess up than VDS. As for the clean sheets, yes that shows good keeping, but excludes other factors such as the mistakes he made in the games he didn't keep clean sheets, or having a good defence infront of you(like he has)

and you are right, Reina wins shot stopper but VDS wins the most all rounder. Anyway think it's quite obvious neither of us want to change keepers so lets leave it at that

Where are these mistakes you're talking about? He had a howler against Everton last season and hasnt made a mistake since.

Unearthly · 10-12-2007 06:45PM

Melion wrote: »

Since the Everton game????

Everton 3-0 win last season?

If so, the flapping at Ronaldos freekick which led to a easy knock in for the winner last season.

Incidentally, VDS made a good save from Crouch a couple of minutes beforehand

Chardee MacDennis · 10-12-2007 06:46PM

Unearthly wrote: »

Reina is more prone to a mess up than VDS. As for the clean sheets, yes that shows good keeping, but excludes other factors such as the mistakes he made in the games he didn't keep clean sheets, or having a good defence infront of you(like he has)

and you are right, Reina wins shot stopper but VDS wins the most all rounder. Anyway think it's quite obvious neither of us want to change keepers so lets leave it at that

so you're admitting the back 5 liverpool have is better than uniteds or that Rafa is a better manager tactically than SAF?

It has to be one of the three either Reina > VDS, Liverpool Def > Man Uniteds Def or Rafa > SAF. you're choice....

herbieflowers · 10-12-2007 06:47PM

Melion wrote: »

Since the Everton game????

er...against Arsenal for Fabregas' goal? That's off the top of my head, but there were a host from last season

Melion · 10-12-2007 06:48PM

herbieflowers wrote: »

er...against Arsenal for Fabregas' goal? That's off the top of my head, but there were a host from last season

What??
How can you blame Reina for that goal?

Unearthly · 10-12-2007 06:48PM

Call_me_al wrote: »

so you're admitting the back 5 liverpool have is better than uniteds or that Rafa is a better manager tactically than SAF?

It has to be one of the three either Reina > VDS, Liverpool Def > Man Uniteds Def or Rafa > SAF. you're choice....

I think Liverpool defend better as a team. So that means Rafa is better than Ferguson on the defensive side of things. As for attacking, well who wins that?....

herbieflowers · 10-12-2007 06:49PM

He was rooted! Anyway, I'm bored of this...VDS is better all round IMO, Reina is better in your opinion. End of.

An Citeog · 10-12-2007 06:54PM

If people are going to keep posting facts, can they at least make sure they're right eg. Buffon not being tall. He's 6'3 ffs. There's loads more stuff about Ronaldo aswell that's blatantly made up.

I think the key for United is that Hargreaves plays. Anderson has taken to the Premiership like a duck to water and has really made the position in central midfield his own. I think United are a lot stronger here than they were last season, even though Scholes is missing. In United's defence, a lot will depend on how Rio plays. If Torres plays up front on his own, I'm sure he'll try to isolate Vidic and get him one-on-one. If that happens, he's got the beating of him for pace, so Ferdinand will need to be able to cover. Hopefully Giggs can put in a good performance aswell. I have a feeling he'll play an important part in this game.

In short, I can't wait for this game. I think it's impossible to predict who's going to win but I have a feeling that United will lay down a marker here, if Hargreaves plays. If Ronaldo has one of his off-days like he did against Arsenal, I'll be more than happy.

An Citeog · 10-12-2007 07:00PM

Call_me_al wrote: »

now i CLEARLY stated I haven't seen enough to be sure so either you're both just using selective reading or you're not the smartest...

I have seen every Liverpool game this season being a Liverpool fan, and Lucas has been very impressive. I haven't seen many full United matches, generally only highlights on MotD and while he has impressed in an attacking role, his defensive attributes have not stood out for me.

sure we'll see on Sunday...

Here he is in action against Blackburn.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iQqbWOgP1hM

Chardee MacDennis · 10-12-2007 07:09PM

Unearthly wrote: »

I think Liverpool defend better as a team. So that means Rafa is better than Ferguson on the defensive side of things. As for attacking, well who wins that?....

United are a better attacking team, just annoys me that if we won the league 5 years in a row united fans would still claim they were a better team!

lordgoat · 10-12-2007 07:13PM

Call_me_al wrote: »

United are a better attacking team, just annoys me that if we won the league 5 years in a row united fans would still claim they were a better team!

Maybe from some, but imo the league table in may doesn't lie. The best team wins it. Whoever manages to win it has the best team.

Unless you count la liga where they don't go by goal difference... For some reason or other...

An Citeog · 10-12-2007 07:15PM

Call_me_al wrote: »

United are a better attacking team, just annoys me that if we won the league 5 years in a row united fans would still claim they were a better team!

Why? United are the current league champions and Liverpool haven't won the league in 17 years. United are also above Liverpool in the league. It stands to reason that United are the better team.

Who do you think is the better team?

Unearthly · 10-12-2007 07:16PM

lordgoat wrote: »

Maybe from some, but imo the league table in may doesn't lie. The best team wins it. Whoever manages to win it has the best team.

Unless you count la liga where they don't go by goal difference... For some reason or other...

I agree with that.

When Chelsea won the league by a mile for 2 years with a less attacking approach I still admired them for accumulating so many points. Best team by far in that period.

smemon · 10-12-2007 07:23PM

just annoys me that if we won the league 5 years in a row!

and that's what annoys the hell outa Man Utd fans

Liverpool v Man Utd - Sunday 16th December

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