do i have a rite to be angry???

dRNk SAnTA wrote: »

Ok answer me this hypothetical situation, which is the worse crime:

1) cheating on your SO
2) reading your SO's phone to confirm that he/she IS cheating.

At the end of the day in this case, the girlfriends behaviour has been worse than the boyfriends. I really cannot understand the desire to keep stuff private from your girlfriend. I tell my girlfriend everything, I am completely open, honest, and feel secure. if that were to change then we should probably break up. So why would I be angry if she had a gander at my messages.

My issue with the reading of the phone messages is where do you draw the line? your ok with reading your partners texts, what about going through their closet? Or reading their diary or email? Some people chose to have very open relationships but we all have those things that we just like to keep to our selves.

Also all these people who are being so open and honest with their partners - how long would you be in a relationship before you'd be that open? I know for me that kind of trust takes time to earn and I can understand couples that have been together years maybe reading each others texts without it being a big deal thou not in the context of checking to see if they are cheating.

Fysh wrote: »

What I don't understand is why people think that the logical response to a breakdown in trust is to go spying on people. If the trust is already gone, what good does the confirmation do? What help can it possibly be, other than in playing the blame game?

You can't go around trusting every single person you meet in life, same goes for boyfriends and girlfriends. You can't just automatically trut someone, OR give up on what MIGHT end up being a life-long relationship just because there are some trust issues near the beginning!!!

You need to get over this whole stance you have going on here and realise that having a snoop sometimes does more harm than good, yes, but by god, it shouldn't mean the end of a relationship, some people are born nosy and their other half accepts them for who they are at the very beginning of the relationship, nosy and all as they are (or inqusiitive, untrusting, insecure possibly - there are people like that the world over and many of them in strong loving relationships *shock horror*). Some people have been hurt in the past and may have issues with trust - does this mean they should NEVER have another relationship, ever again, simply because they have to work hard at trusting their new partner? Some people have VALID reasons to be suspicious and have a massive urge to confirm their suspicions by sneaking a peak and in my opinion there's nothing wrong with that.

Trust is hugely important, don't get me wrong, but some people just don't trust easily and I would put far more emphasis on respect in a relatioship than trust. There are people out there who will probably never trust anyone or at least tak years upon years to do so, but who can love and respect someone 110% .... so you think they should be single forever? I think it's disrespectful to text an ex who you obviously have feelings for, when you're in a new relationship. I also think it's disrespectful to hide your phone from your boyfriend. Yes, it's bordering on disrespectful to read your other halfs texts but in any good solid relationship, there should be nothing on your phone that you need to hide from your "other half" and this lad had valid reasons to want to check his girlfriends phone - more power o him! Hope he uses the knowledge he now has to good effect!

What I don't understand is why people think that the logical response to a breakdown in trust is to go spying on people. If the trust is already gone, what good does the confirmation do? What help can it possibly be, other than in playing the blame game?[/QUOTE]



For me, after 8 years with him, I myself needed to prove to him that I knew he was lying. I wasnt mature enough to walk away and end it and needed him to know that i knew he had been lying.

l3LoWnA wrote: »

Yes, it's bordering on disrespectful to read your other halfs texts but in any good solid relationship, there should be nothing on your phone that you need to hide from your "other half" and this lad had valid reasons to want to check his girlfriends phone - more power o him! Hope he uses the knowledge he now has to good effect!

but what if the information they are reading in their texts has nothing to do with your relationship but someone elses? I'm just looking through my phone and I have messages from a friend who is going through a very difficult time in their life right now - they have been calling me and texting me, as one of their closest friends, with information that they only want to share with me. They are my friend not a mutal friend of both myself and BF so how would they feel if they knew my BF would read their messages?

I get all of the following verbal diorrhea from someone who obviously has alot to hide from his girlfriend and doesn't feel he can open up fully to her.......

Fysh wrote: »

...I'm puzzled as to what criteria you use when you're deciding whether you want to have a relationship with someone, if you can embark on one without having yet reached a decision about the other person's trustworthiness. But, well, whatever works for you...

Personally, if I had even a hint of a notion that I couldn't or shouldn't trust someone, there's no way in hell I'd consider a relationship with someone. Likewise, if I had reason to believe I could no longer trust my girlfriend, it would be brought up and discussed at the earliest opportunity, and not left alone until I'd decided whether my concerns had been resolved.



ARGH.

You being "naturally nosy" is NOT A GOOD ENOUGH REASON TO GO ROOTING THROUGH MY PERSONAL INFORMATION, REGARDLESS OF WHETHER YOU'RE MY GF, MY MOTHER OR THE FRIGGING POPE! It is NOT your decision to make, REGARDLESS OF HOW VALID YOU THINK YOUR REASONS ARE.

If you have been hurt in the past, my condolences - I've been there and it frigging sucks. That is YOUR issue, not your prospective new SO's issue - YOU have to deal with them. The sooner you deal with them, the sooner you can get on with having a healthy relationship with someone.

Having suspicions about your SO means you should DISCUSS THEM WITH YOUR SO. If you don't like the answer, END THE RELATIONSHIP. This really isn't that hard a concept to grasp, except you seem to think that magically the rules of respecting personal privacy and boundaries don't apply to you. This shows a staggering lack of respect for your SO or anyone else, and it is YOUR PROBLEM. Not anyone else's, YOURS. YOU have a problem trusting people. This will hold YOU back in relating to people in a healthy way.

As for the confirming suspicions part, where does it end? You think your BF is cheating, so you check his mail. You find nothing incriminating. Do you think "Wow, things must be pretty awful if I'm checking his private email and not finding any confirmation of naughtiness"? No. Apparently, you just dismiss it as "normal behaviour" and keep on doing it, instead of realising that if you've gotten to the point of checking your SO's messages/texts/diary/WHATEVER without permission, your relationship may as well be in the toilet.



Oh, BOO FRIGGING HOO. "Wah, I have trust issues therefore you have to consent to me spying on you and sticking a probe up your ass to make sure that you don't eat anything I don't approve of, as that could indicate you're cheating on me!"

If you've got trust issues, DEAL WITH THEM. Don't get all uppity about how your SO should love you enough to share everything with you and, moreover, allow you to spy on them without reprisal.

I am an individual. I'm very happy with my GF and am still an individual while we are together; should things between us fall apart I will continue to be an individual. As an individual, I reserve the right to have some thoughts, conversations, ideas etc etc that I keep completely to myself and it is not within your right, nor that of anyone on the face of this planet, to demand that I relinquish that right. Were you, my GF, or anyone else for that matter, to try and ask or force me to relinquish it, they would be told swiftly and impolitely where they could go and what they could do when they got there.

In short, .

And then I get this....

STOP TRYING TO PUSH YOUR ISSUES ONTO OTHER PEOPLE, AND DEAL WITH THEM YOURSELF.[/

Hahahahahahaha!!

Go figure!!

I have no trust issues at the moment personally. My last boyfriend and I trusted each other completely and were very solid - as for phones, we used to enjoy flicking through each others phones (usually in bed.....dont know why...:rolleyes:) He would show me texts from his ex or from whoever (I didn't ask him to, he just said "look", etc and we've have a laugh or just a chat) I suppose it was a way of getting to know each other better, I'd read a text about something and he'd explain it to me, then he'd read my messages (I've usually over 2000 in my in-box from all sorts of people, they tell a certain kind of a story about a person...) and we'd find out more about each other using this method - If I choose a partner, of course I'm going to want to trust them, but NO-body can tell if a person is 100% trustworthy after a few dates....and I wouldn't attempt to look through a new partners phone sneakily. I would however, if he offered or wanted me to or if, down the road into a relationship, I had niggling doubts in my mind about someone that may or may not be going on!

I once caught what seemed like "the perfect boyfriend" out using this method, and thankfully, although broken-hearted, I got out of the relationship before there was a house/dog/child involved......and to be perfectly honest, the first clue that a person can't be trusted is them being extremely private about their phone - that's a fact! Luckily, I now take a wide berth from any guy who's extremely private with his phone, as there's always more to it. Maybe I should have walked away because the trust was gone before I snooped, but he was the perfect boyfriend in every way (from the outside) I loved him very much and our sex life was unbelieveable, I enjoyed his company and loved our life together. Of course I had asked him was he cheating before I snooped and he denied everything. And I suppose I held a little hope that what he said was true (he said I was being "paranoid and insecure" Typical womanisers line to get themselves off the hook) and I hoped that when I checked his phone I'd be proved wrong and we could go on enjoying our wonderful relationship as I'd trust him once more....but I wasn't proved wrong, he was proved a liar and a cheat, and our relationship was over. And I'm glad! Sometimes, a litte snooping is needed, regardless of the circumstances, one day, and you may never see it coming, it may be you picking up your girlfriends phone whilst it's killing you inside that you have to stoop to such depts - never say never, the day might just come, the day you feel you cannot live without her, but you're convinced she's playing away from home, the day you HOPE you are being an insecure tool and the day you HOPE you find no evidence there to prove you are not! The day when picking up her phone, you feel, will ease your insecurities that have recently arisen in your mind. The day you cannot just walk away (as the trust is now gone) because you feel this girl is so much a part of your life that your life could never be the same without her and also because you doubt your instincts and wonder if maybe you are being paranoid.

OH and another thing, with my last boyfriend, although he never showed any reasons to doubt me (nor me him) and we certainly had no trust issues, if I was ever in his company and texting someone I would always excuse myself and explain who or why I was texting as I think it's SUCH a rude habit to be fiddling away with your phone when in ANYbodies company, not least your partner. (this is in relation to the orignal subject of this thread)

Thank god you'll never be my "SO" though, nor anyone like you Fysh.....I'd detest a relationship with so many things hidden from one another, thoughts, ideas, conversations.....would you even CALL your SO your friend? I would never end up with someone like you Fysh and I would certainly not try to force someone like you to relinquish any of our "rights" :rolleyes: Thank god, I put more emphasis on unity in a relationship than individuality. (you can be an individual without being secretive about who you are, can you not?)

l3LoWnA wrote: »

Exactly! I would do the same with my ex if he needed my phone - same goes the other way! I don't know how anyone in a trusting relationship can handle it any other way......the privacy would eat me up personally as I would feel my boyfriend was hiding something(if even only a part of himself) from me. And it makes no less of an individual of someone if you can be open and honest with your other half.

No one is saying you have to build a fence around your phone/email/diary what ever, and keep everyone away, all I'm saying is there is a different between sharing items and snopping. I've borrowed ex's phones, hell I've borrowed friends phones.

I just feel if you were reading your SO's texts and there was a really personnal text from one of their friends or a memeber of their family that was nothing about you or your relationship that you don't have a right to read just because your dating.

Waiting for someone to leave their phone unattended and then checking their texts with the soul intention to see if they are cheating means you don't have an honest and open relationship. You can argue the ends justify the means if you do catch them out but what if they weren't cheating. Why should they trust you again.

Fysh wrote: »

Well, yes, in fact - if you're not in a position where you explicitly expect to have shared ownership of certain types of purchase (eg living together) and you take a slice without asking, then yes it could be theft - if she considers it to be an issue. My point is that from a legal perspective in Western culture, there is a right to privacy which is quite protected in legal terms, so this assumption that being in a relationship automatically means the other person jettisons that right to privacy doesn't hold water.

They may or may not be happy with that kind of full-disclosure relationship. But the assumption that they are could well cause problems, so best not to make it.

It doesn't take much to figure out if someone is the type to put up privacy walls around them. In my opinion, knowingly hidding something from your girlfriend is not being fully honest unless for example it is not telling your girlfriend that there is a surprise party for her etc which is a different story.

Fysh wrote: »

If you don't have the same problem, bully for you. As I said above, my point is more that assuming someone else won't mind such full-disclosure is where the problems will appear.

That does not need to be assumed. You would not need to be a rocket scientist to figure out if someone likes to hide behind privacy.

Fysh wrote: »

Yes, but if you need to know for sure, ASK YOUR SO. Jesus. It's not exactly complex, but it seems to be something several people fail to grasp. And if your SO doesn't answer your questions in a way that satisfies you, well, that should be all the answer you need. Either you're happy with the state of the relationship, or you're not. If you're not happy with it, and you can't get your SO to answer your questions or resolve your doubts, what difference does it make whether your suspicions were confirmed or not? None whatsoever - you were unhappy with the state of things, and your SO did not act to remedy this.

I would have no problems asking my girlfriend anything like that if I felt I needed to.

You sound like you work on the principle of blind trust. Blind trust is not realistic.

Fysh wrote: »

It's not hiding things, and this seems to be where you're either deliberately or incidentally misunderstanding me. The fact that I do not vomit forth every single thought that crosses my mind to my GF does not mean that I'm hiding things from her, just that there are things that I don't think she needs to know. These things might include the exact nature of my recent visit to the bathroom, the exact inflection of a friend's voice when he explained that he'd broken up with his girlfriend, or the extensive information regarding the interoperation of computer systems that I have to collate and analyse as part of my job.

I said knowingly hiding something e.g. in the case of the OP, being very secretative about the communication with her ex.

Fysh wrote: »

The fact that I make a judgement on what things she needs or does not need to know doesn't mean I'm hiding things from her, or that I have intentions to commit misdeeds under the cover of her ignorance. We've known each other long enough to trust each other, and if for any reason something comes up that upsets one of us or the other we bring it up and discuss it. Would that everyone else could deal with things in this way, instead of signing up to play a real life version of Cluedo.

Again you have misunderstood what I have said.

Fysh wrote: »

A) I don't work on blind trust, I work on the principle of not putting myself in a position of having to depend on people I don't feel I can trust. I've known my GF long enough to know that I can trust her.

b) You sound like you work from a principle of no trust whatsoever. I'm curious as to your reasons for this, particularly on the basis that if you can't trust the person you're in a relationship enough to allow them some private space, why would you be involved with them? I know l3LoWnA has made the comment about how do you know you can trust someone after only a few dates, but, well, who says you only have a few dates in which to get to know someone before getting involved? Myself and my GF knew each other for a little less than a year before we started dating, and this meant that we were already comfortable with each other. I know this isn't always an option, but if you know you take time to build up trust in someone, why rush into getting involved with them before you've got that trust?

I dont, I trust my girlfriend enough to not need private space from her. What would someone want to keep private from their long term girlfriend?

Fysh wrote: »

Really? If my GF rooted through my email for any reason without first asking, I'd be rather upset. It would be a sign of not respecting me, and I would consider the converse situation of me browsing through her email without permission to be a similar sign of disrespect.

Your mileage clearly varies here and you don't mind your GF seeing all your private information. That's fine, for you. But, for the love of Jesus, STOP TRYING TO SUGGEST THAT IF I WANT PERSONAL PRIVACY I MUST BE HIDING THINGS. Christ. Only in a time where people post up everything up to and including scans of their internal organs on their Myspace page, and reality TV tries to teach us that all-day every-day surveillance is not only normal but desirable, could I expect to find such downright suspicion of a person choosing not to share everything.

You do realise you are talking about your girlfriend here and not the Gardai, Metropolitan Police, the NSA or any other surveillance agency.

Fysh wrote: »

I happen to want to retain a certain amount of personal privacy, and it's my choice to make. That's as much reason as you're going to get, and you can like it or lump it. You can try to suggest that I must be hiding something, but you are the one advocating the idea of spying on the other half as if it's a totally normal state of affairs.

I'm saying that trusting each other enough to respect personal privacy and not question it is a sign of mutual respect and trust, you're saying that trust can only be built on Big Brother (1984-style, rather than crap-reality-tv-style) levels of knowledge/checking up on each other.

I don't snoop or spy or monitor or anything else you have said. Im not talking about anyone checking up on anyone. Im not talking about interragations of the SO, i'm talking about the type of relationship where people do not need privacy from each other as there is nothing about them that they want to hide (keep private) from the other.