value of homemade protein and carb shake?

maradona10 · 05-11-2007 06:32PM #1

ive been trying soya milk and silken tofu cubes(from the chinese supermarkets) in a blender along with fruit( bananas,strawberries).

use the tofu to replace eggs.

any opinions on the value of this as a protein and carb shake

rubadub · 05-11-2007 07:24PM

I dont think many rate soya protein highly if it is muscle building you are after.

Chicken & turkey is good, red meat too, though pork is not meant to be great.

And dont bother with eggs in blenders, if thats what you were doing. You get more available protein from eggs when they are cooked- and they taste nicer too.

Penaut butter is an easy way to get protein too, get natural stuff, 1kg for ~€5.50 in holland & barret.

I have whey protein, skim milk, & frozen fruit for smoothies. Some keep saying get protein from whole foods, but whey is very good for muscle building, and a little can have good effect. And I think soya milk & tofu is about a "unwhole-food" as whey protein is.

pwd · 05-11-2007 07:40PM

Soya products are supposed to increase oestrogen levels which would have a negative effect on weight training. I don't know how much you have to eat for the increase to be significant.
Peanut butter is beneficial for building muscle because of it is high in calories and very nutritious, but it should be noted that nuts do not contain complete protein like eggs, meat, whey etc. You can get complete protein by combining nuts with grains and pulses or beans.

I haven't heard that pork is supposed to be a poor choice. Do you know why? It's a natural source of zinc, which is an important mineral for people doing weight training, and I would have thought it would be equivalent to other meat as a protein source.

rubadub · 05-11-2007 07:44PM

pwd wrote: »

I haven't heard that pork is supposed to be a poor choice. Do you know why? It's a natural source of zinc, which is an important mineral for people doing weight training, and I would have thought it would be equivalent to other meat as a protein source.

I am not sure, it was in another thread and a few said it. And I dont think it was just pointing out processed ham or sausages. It might not have been very bad, but I think people were saying chicken and red meat were a lot more beneficial.

I do not like the idea of sausage meat or processed ham. I used to make pork burgers or sausages by liquidising pork chops. I since gave up after reading the others are better. I get round steak, trim the fat and make my own burgers or meatballs, cheaper and lower in fat than "low fat mince" which is made with god knows what cuts.

I have heard zinc is good for test production, and suppose a little pork is going to give a more diverse protein mix.

Degsy · 05-11-2007 08:06PM

No reason why pork wouldnt work as well as any other meat.In fact,pig meat is closely related to human flesh in structure.The only problem i could see with pork is it can contain quite high levels of fat,but thats where the flavour is IMO.

smellslikeshoes · 05-11-2007 08:09PM

I wouldn't worry about the estrogen raising effects of soya, It has been blown out of all proportions by the internet. Its been a staple of eastern foods for a long time and would probably be more documented if it was a serious problem. Its a good source of protein not quite as good as animal proteins but who wants a shake made out of a steak eh?

maradona10 · 05-11-2007 08:20PM

rubadub i wasnt aware of peanut butter in holland and barret.

im using the kelkin brand and have used panda. are these ok

never heard of the oestrogen rasing effects of tofu

i thought it was one of these new super foods

its hard to know what to eat these days

pwd · 05-11-2007 08:29PM

http://www.soyonlineservice.co.nz/articles/soya_jola_chudy.pdf

interesting, if a little sensationalist.

maradona10 · 05-11-2007 09:09PM

just read it. it looks like its back to whole fat milk and pork chops and gravy for me

Hanley · 05-11-2007 09:42PM

I don't see why there's a need to reinvent the wheel in the hopes of finding some magical combinatino that everyone else has missed out on up until now....

maradona10 · 05-11-2007 09:56PM

when u can guarantee me whats in protein drinks ill listen

theres a lot of badly informed and impressionable people on this forum

there is more wonder supplements being quoted than any wonder foods

g'em · 05-11-2007 10:00PM

maradona10 wrote: »

when u can guarantee me whats in protein drinks ill listen

Nutrition X Pro X Whey ingredients list:

Not a wonder supplement, just whey, a cheese manufacturing by-product. As for the guarantee, well I can give you the owner of the company's phone number and you can ask him yourself? Irish owned, Irish made, EU certified.

maradona10 · 05-11-2007 10:10PM

that doesnt prove to me what the powder contains.

its just a label

g'em · 05-11-2007 10:12PM

maradona10 wrote: »

theres a lot of badly informed and impressionable people on this forum

lol, you don't say... :rolleyes:

Hanley · 05-11-2007 10:13PM

maradona10 wrote: »

when u can guarantee me whats in protein drinks ill listen

theres a lot of badly informed and impressionable people on this forum

there is more wonder supplements being quoted than any wonder foods

Eh what?

It seems like you're saying the majority of protein supplements are full of drugs? Well I've news for you, I compete in a drug tested sport with very regular testing and last time I was tested I had used 4 or 5 different products over the week beforehand and some of the day of the comp too, and guess what, my results were negative.

I wouldn't put my reputation at risk if I thought there was any chance of getting a false positive from supplements. You're a GAA or soccer player right? Do you guys even get tested?? If you don't then it should be of no concern to you anyway.

The only badly informed person is yourself I'm afraid. You seem to be under the impression all or the majority of supplements have illicit substances in them.

maradona10 · 05-11-2007 10:27PM

no im not saying that but when someone needs to take 4 or 5 different products to compete somethings amiss.

a person can only digest 25g of protein at a time. why the need for big drums of powder. make a natural shake or have a sandwich

pwd · 05-11-2007 10:28PM

I'm pretty sure steroids cost a lot more than whey protein

Hanley · 05-11-2007 10:33PM

maradona10 wrote: »

no im not saying that but when someone needs to take 4 or 5 different products to compete somethings amiss.

a person can only digest 25g of protein at a time. why the need for big drums of powder. make a natural shake or have a sandwich

My god man. Every post you put up further erodes your credability. For your own sake you need to stop.

I'm not even going to address your assertation about the bodies ability to digest a perfectly quantifiable amount of protein (and perfectly round amount too, what a coincidence) because it's so ridiculous.

Could you please explain how taking supplements and competeing means something is "amiss"?

For the record, the products were;
pre workout shake
post workout shake
creatine mono
whey
protein bars

pwd · 05-11-2007 10:36PM

maradona10 wrote: »

a person can only digest 25g of protein at a time.

what's your source on this?

maradona10 · 05-11-2007 10:42PM

yes but there is no guarantee that those products are not contaminated

im not saying that people are taking protein shakes in the hope of them being contaminated

im trying to make the point that when people ask for advice on food/bulking up etc protein powders are always advised. as a person can only digest 25g at a time this need can be met by food alone. protein powders primary use to my knowledge is to help people who are dieting maintain muscle while keeping there calorie intake where it should be

also hanley its true that we are not tested but we should be. im not havin a go at you by the way but i cant understand how that many supplements are deemed necessary

Latchy · 05-11-2007 10:45PM

I do recall reading somwere that to much protien is bad for you ........

g'em · 05-11-2007 10:49PM

maradona10 wrote: »

yes but there is no guarantee that those products are not contaminated

Oh Lordy. Like I said, Nutrition X is an Irish company. All its products are strictly regulated:

Nutrition X products are tested to E.F.S.I.S and H.A.C.C.P standards. Every ingredient entering our production facility is tested for quality and impurities. All ingredients used in our products are IOC/WADA compliant and manufactured similarly in an IOC/WADA friendly environment.

EFSIS = European Food Safety Inspection Service
HACCP = Hazard Analysis and Critical Control Point (FDA program)
IOC = International Olympic Committee
WADA - World Anti Doping Agency

I took similar products to Hanley at my last drug-tested comp too, and hey, whaddya know, I passed the urine test :rolleyes:

Sure, there's a tiny number out there that are contaminated, but they are VERY much in the minority. All the big reliable brands will be quality tested in the same way that Nut X is.

As for the protein, around 50g per serving is the most your body can absorb, but that's influenced by activity level, age, body composition etc. And for an otherwise healthy individual (with no previous history of renal or liver disease and/ or weakness) there's really no harm from excess protein consumption, it just gets pi$$ed out.

Hanley · 05-11-2007 10:51PM

maradona10 wrote: »

yes but there is no guarantee that those products are not contaminated

Yes there is. How could they become contaminated? Do you think protein powders are made in the same labs as anabolics and cross contamination occurs??

im trying to make the point that when people ask for advice on food/bulking up etc protein powders are always advised. as a person can only digest 25g at a time this need can be met by food alone.

Again, this is wrong.

also hanley its true that we are not tested but we should be. im not havin a go at you by the way but i cant understand how that many supplements are deemed necessary

With all due respect, you don't know why it's neccessary because you don't compete at a high level in a strength sport (and I never said that it was absolutely neccessary). You don't know how badly your body gets beat up when you're training for national and world championships. I would imagine you don't know what it feels like to get under a bar knowing that even an inch out of the groove and you risk SERIOUS injury. It's a big burden to have on your mind. And if I choose to ease that burden and risk of injury by taking a variety of supplements so that I'm recovered enough to train then I don't think I need to make any justification as to why.

maradona10 · 05-11-2007 11:29PM

with respect i think the taking of so many supplements is more for psychological reasons then

training/playing for team sports involve lots of cardio work, weights and physical contact. injury risk is higher. this can be avoided with proper recovery and nutrition. supplements are never advised

on the question of 25g protein. thats what the american college of sports medicine says

smellslikeshoes · 05-11-2007 11:40PM

maradona10 wrote: »

with respect i think the taking of so many supplements is more for psychological reasons then

training/playing for team sports involve lots of cardio work, weights and physical contact. injury risk is higher. this can be avoided with proper recovery and nutrition. supplements are never advised

on the question of 25g protein. thats what the american college of sports medicine says

No point in throwing out figures unless you provide a link to a study or where it says the information.

05-11-2007 11:48PM

Your posts are giving me a headache. Or maybe that's the heavy dosage of protein (over 25g now) that I just subjected my poor renal system to...

training/playing for team sports involve lots of cardio work, weights and physical contact. injury risk is higher. this can be avoided with proper recovery and nutrition. supplements are never advised

Depends on the team sport. I can bet my team sport has a lot different risk of injury than yours... Similarily the risks of powerlifting are different again. My sports now rugby formerly mma both have a lot of chronic injuries that when training hard supplements can really help

on the question of 25g protein. thats what the american college of sports medicine says

I'm sorry but your figure is senseless. Do you only eat 1/2 chicken breasts just in case you overdo it on protein. To come out with a black and white rule about the many different types of bodies is naive at best.

maradona10 · 06-11-2007 12:13AM

columok excess protein cant be stored in the body. its passed out through the kidneys

thats why small protein meals throughout the day are recommended

every person needs 1g of protein per lb of body weight to maintain

theres no point in eating a 16oz steak, it just is waste. eat 2 6-8oz though at seperate times and your ok

maradona10 · 06-11-2007 12:15AM

ill post the links to this info tomorrow or provide the references

Hanley · 06-11-2007 12:16AM

maradona10 wrote: »

columok excess protein cant be stored in the body. its passed out through the kidneys

thats why small protein meals throughout the day are recommended

every person needs 1g of protein per lb of body weight to maintain

theres no point in eating a 16oz steak, it just is waste. eat 2 6-8oz though at seperate times and your ok

As I said previously, every post further erodes your credability. Put down the books, spend some time under the bar. And come back in 6 months and tell us what you've learned.

rubadub · 06-11-2007 10:48AM

maradona10 wrote: »

why the need for big drums of powder. make a natural shake or have a sandwich

People buy big drums for the same reasons they buy big packs of washing powder- it has a long shelf life and it is cheaper to buy in bulk, also whey can be in "out of the way" shops

You are eating tofu & soya products yourself, they are about as "natural" as a whey shake. Whey is not some pharmaceutical synthetic product- it is a dairy based product, like cheese, butter or skim milk powder.

Also if you eat a steak it is not fully absorbed/digested immediately, the protein goes in slowly as it is digested. This is a reason some take whey, it is absorbed quickly after a workout.

06-11-2007 11:07AM

rubadub wrote:

Whey is not some pharmaceutical synthetic product

Idiot! Whey is a chemical and we all know that chemicals are unnatural and bad...;)

Maradona,

You coming out with a magic number for protein absorbtion will always be rubbish. How can you claim that every body (with the massive number of variations possible in the human body) behaves in the same way. That doesn’t make sense; study or no study. That’s like saying EVERY man needs to eat 3000 calories a day. It’s senseless.

There are some pretty compelling reasons to use whey as a means of increasing your protein intake.

-It’s quick to prepare requiring no cooking facilities
-It’s cheap
-It’s convenient
-It’s a better ethical alternative than buying cheap chicken
-It his the system quickly

I’d much prefer to have a dude with a giant barbeque of meat follow me around all day handing me a fine selection of tasty lean meats but that isn’t possible. I work 9-6 with no cooking facilities and have little apart from spar chicken fillet baguettes in my neighbourhood. I train then at 7.30 and get home late so how am I meant to get whole foods prepared to bring to work early the next day. It’s difficult. I try but by and large shakes are my only way of getting the protein I need to go with a nice salad at lunch time.

value of homemade protein and carb shake?

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