MA articles in Metro Eireann

Nothingcompares · 29-08-2007 06:09PM

I'm considerably less impressed by the second batch of articles. Obviously the author has the "chip on the shoulder" about non combat-sport martial arts like Iaido and similar. The articles, in my opinion, seem to have taken a route down the "history and lineage" way rather than "this is where I went, who I met, how we trained, what the athmosphere was". Presumably the author is trying to give an overall picture of a martial art rather than the one particular experience of a particular club but then why is he only visiting one club from the one art once?

I'd prefer a bit more factual content on the actual classes rather than some spiel as to what's wrong with the mental state of the Iaido practioneer and some wikipedia lookalike article on martial art legend.

Rob Carry · 29-08-2007 07:44PM

Nothingcompares wrote:

I'm considerably less impressed by the second batch of articles. Obviously the author has the "chip on the shoulder" about non combat-sport martial arts like Iaido and similar. The articles, in my opinion, seem to have taken a route down the "history and lineage" way rather than "this is where I went, who I met, how we trained, what the athmosphere was". Presumably the author is trying to give an overall picture of a martial art rather than the one particular experience of a particular club but then why is he only visiting one club from the one art once?

I'd prefer a bit more factual content on the actual classes rather than some spiel as to what's wrong with the mental state of the Iaido practioneer and some wikipedia lookalike article on martial art legend.

I don't actually recall questioning the mental state of an Iaido practioner and I wouldn't say I have a chip on my shoulder about 'non-combat sport martial arts' - I just don't like non-martial martial arts.

Anyway, one big issue that crops up is time contraints - I don't always have the work hours left to make it out to a martial arts class each week, but I still have to write a column about a form - that's generally the reason as to why there are articles there that are not written about my own experiences. This might happen again - I'm going to have to write about Sumo wrestling at some stage but I doubt I'll be flown out to Japan.

Also, no paper is going to pay a reporter to go to a dozen or so different martial arts classes a week, every week ,for a 900 word column - so going more than once to a class just isn't possible. In fact, journalists write about a huge range of subjects, most of which they have never had any direct experience of, so the column would probably be unusual by virtue of the fact I have went out of my way to go to the vast majority of these classes.

Another thing you should keep in mind is that the column is written for a (relatively) mainstream paper and a general audience, rather than for a specialist martial arts readership. This means that an attempt has to be made to make it interesting for the average reader. Most people who read it will probably never go to a class and so factual information, class times, training drills etc are of no interest. What I do instead to try and keep general readers interested is either tell a story, like the Eskrima one, or take the piss a bit, like the Iaido one. Maybe that's not to your taste but it's impossible to satisfy everyone.

But either way, I wouldn't say the articles are going down the 'history and lineage' path - some do and some don't and that's the way it has been since the start - like with Capoeira for example was history orientated. And Kung Fu - was to a great degree about a 'martial arts legend'. Also, I was wrestling at the Hercules Gym the other week (not online yet for some reason) and I was in MAI last night so they would be more along the 'this is where I went, who I met, how we trained, what the athmosphere was' line. Likewise with the Bujinkan one I posted today.

Anyway, thanks for taking the time to read the articles, it's much appreciated, as is the feedback.

Cheers,

Rob.

Nothingcompares · 30-08-2007 12:07AM

fair enough

Michael O Leary · 30-08-2007 10:55AM

Hi Rob,

I was pretty disappointed with the standard of your report on Iaido. You measured everything against fighting ability. The main thing is that the goal of Iaido is not fighting ability but it is practiced as a spiritual discipline. That is the difference between Japanese arts which end in “Jitsu” as opposed to “Do” and is linked to a specific period in Japanese history. Examine the difference between Jiu Jitsu/Judo, Kenjitsu/Kendo. Maybe a bit of research before the class might have put things in context for you.

So why were you “disgusted” that the punch bags were taken down before the class? What would punch bags have to do with swordwork? Iaido does not engage in actual fighting. Also Iaido does not claim to practice the full range of a fight with weapons. It is merely concerned with the drawing of the sword. A similar parallel would be drawing the gun and firing as in the old wild west. So yes the amount of moves would be small but just remember the practice of Iaido is not for fighting but for self-cultivation. It is a spiritual discipline. Therefore to practice a move for three years before learning the next one is not as “outrageous” as you make it out to be.

Regarding the etiquette in Iaido, it is based on Japanese culture. For you to rubbish it is the same as making insulting comments on a foreign culture without understanding it and something I would expect from a british tabloid, not Metro.

Michael.
www.iewto.org

cowzerp · 30-08-2007 11:21AM

Michael O Leary wrote:

Hi Rob,

Therefore to practice a move for three years before learning the next one is not as “outrageous” as you make it out to be.

www.iewto.org

How good can you get at drawing a sword-i'd say your man practising 10 years is a beast-:eek:

Dragan · 30-08-2007 11:59AM

Michael O Leary wrote:

Hi Rob,

I was pretty disappointed with the standard of your report on Iaido. You measured everything against fighting ability. The main thing is that the goal of Iaido is not fighting ability but it is practiced as a spiritual discipline.

Surely if it's a martial art, it should be about the fighting?

Also, do you not find it somewhat odd that a group of Dublin boys would look so far outside there own culture for a spiritual discipline?

Michael O Leary · 30-08-2007 12:17PM

Dragan wrote:

Surely if it's a martial art, it should be about the fighting?

Also, do you not find it somewhat odd that a group of Dublin boys would look so far outside there own culture for a spiritual discipline?

Hi Dragan,:)

The word "Martial Art" is very vague and broad. Some martial arts specialise in sport (kickboxing), others health (some Tai Chi), others character building (Shotokan Karate), other spiritual discipline (Aikido, Iaido), others self-defence (Wing Tsun/Gracie Jiu-Jitsu).

There is a relationship between Iaido and “fighting” which itself is a broad term but to become martially proficient in the area of drawing a sword is a by-product. The “fighting/martial” aspect is only a tool. The goal itself is something else.

I also don’t find it odd that some Dublin “men” would look outside their own culture for a spiritual discipline. That is the world we live in. And maybe they just do it because they like it. When I make the point that Iaido is a spiritual discipline I just mean that you cannot compare the practise of it to MMA (for example) which has a different goal.

Regards,

Michael
www.iewto.org

Nothingcompares · 30-08-2007 01:46PM

Dragan wrote:

Surely if it's a martial art, it should be about the fighting?

Also, do you not find it somewhat odd that a group of Dublin boys would look so far outside there own culture for a spiritual discipline?

Did the founder of Iaido tick the "martial art" box when creating it? It's a martial art because it's called a martial art. Martial arts means nothing specifically. You just interpret at something relating to fighting.

Gorman · 30-08-2007 03:37PM

People buy way too much into the spiritual aspect of the Japanese martial arts, the "Do" - the way of life concept. The people who buy into it the most seem to be non-Japanese.

I lived in Japan for a few years and had some exposure to martial arts. I never seen anyone take the "Do" concept very seriously, take Judo for example, the guys who do Judo do it to kick ass and win competitions not to find some deep spiritual enlightenment. Arts like Iaido aren't really seen as a spiritual way of life, they're seem to be a way to keep a tradition, an out of date skill set alive. I actually had a friend who did Iaido there, he was probably the only person in the group under the age of 60 and he was a foreigner.

Saying that Rob was "making insulting comments on a foreign culture without understanding" is not really fair, I have a feeling that most Japanese people would have found the article funny and would have agreed with it.

A group of lads trying to be Samurai or ninjas in the name of spiritual enlightenment..... come on, it is a bit funny

O'Leprosy · 30-08-2007 03:55PM

Michael O Leary wrote:

Hi Dragan,:)

The word "Martial Art" is very vague and broad. Some martial arts specialise in sport (kickboxing), others health (some Tai Chi), others character building (Shotokan Karate), other spiritual discipline (Aikido, Iaido), others self-defence (Wing Tsun/Gracie Jiu-Jitsu).

There is a relationship between Iaido and “fighting” which itself is a broad term but to become martially proficient in the area of drawing a sword is a by-product. The “fighting/martial” aspect is only a tool. The goal itself is something else.

I also don’t find it odd that some Dublin “men” would look outside their own culture for a spiritual discipline. That is the world we live in. And maybe they just do it because they like it. When I make the point that Iaido is a spiritual discipline I just mean that you cannot compare the practise of it to MMA (for example) which has a different goal.

Regards,

Michael
www.iewto.org

True enough Micheal, " And maybe they just do it because they like it." As a TKDer and mega MMA fan, I can see the reason why people like doing kata etc. As far as I know, Chuck Liddell still trains weekly in Kenpo, Bas Rutten in TKD, George Saint Pierre in Karate. BTW, haven't seen you at BJJ for a while. Wing Tsun keeping you busy ?

Michael O Leary · 30-08-2007 04:04PM

Gorman wrote:

A group of lads trying to be Samurai or ninjas in the name of spiritual enlightenment..... come on, it is a bit funny

Hi Gorman,

It is actually not funny but it is easy to make fun of people. Labelling Iaido practitioners, as both you and Rob did, as wanna-be Samurai/Ninjas is as insulting to them as labelling Thai Boxers wanna-be Bruce Lees. People have various reasons for practising martial arts, one of which may be for spiritual discipline, another may be because it is fun.

When I state that Iaido is a spiritual discipline I am not saying that those who practise it do so specifically for that reason. The reason that I do make the point that it is meant as a spiritual discipline is to the put the practise of it in context. There is a maxim in architecture that states, “form follows function”. As the function/goal of Iaido is different from Muay Thai/BJJ which the author favours, this means the form/method of training will be different also.

If the people who teach Iaido stated that the practise of it would enable you to defend yourself on the street then you could rightly say that their training methods do not support this but this is not the case.

Rob Carry stated that he was “disgusted” when they took down the punch bags. Was he disgusted with the absence of punch bags when he did the BJJ class or is BJJ less of an easy target?

Regards,

Michael
www.iewto.org

cowzerp · 30-08-2007 05:17PM

micheal you have to take into context what the point of his writing is about, if its about martial arts that are beneficial to self defense, like most people want-then he was right to be disgusted when he realised it was a load of ****e, it sounds like the lads who dress up as cling ons from star trek and do the rituals of the cling ons-i still want to see how good i can get at pulling out a blade from its holster!! i'd of loved to be there-:D

David Jones · 30-08-2007 08:55PM

Was he disgusted with the absence of punch bags when he did the BJJ class or is BJJ less of an easy target?

Actually we have punchbags a lot of them, we use them during fight class on thursdays. No swords though, so jealous!

Gorman · 30-08-2007 10:04PM

Michael O Leary wrote:

Hi Gorman,

It is actually not funny but it is easy to make fun of people. Labelling Iaido practitioners, as both you and Rob did, as wanna-be Samurai/Ninjas is as insulting to them as labelling Thai Boxers wanna-be Bruce Lees. People have various reasons for practising martial arts, one of which may be for spiritual discipline, another may be because it is fun.

When I state that Iaido is a spiritual discipline I am not saying that those who practise it do so specifically for that reason. The reason that I do make the point that it is meant as a spiritual discipline is to the put the practise of it in context. There is a maxim in architecture that states, “form follows function”. As the function/goal of Iaido is different from Muay Thai/BJJ which the author favours, this means the form/method of training will be different also.

If the people who teach Iaido stated that the practise of it would enable you to defend yourself on the street then you could rightly say that their training methods do not support this but this is not the case.

Rob Carry stated that he was “disgusted” when they took down the punch bags. Was he disgusted with the absence of punch bags when he did the BJJ class or is BJJ less of an easy target?

Regards,

Michael
www.iewto.org

Michael, I think our sense of humours might be quite different, I actually found the descriptions in the Iaido & ninjitsu articles very funny. Anyway that's not really the point, not everyone finds Tommy Teirnan or Biily Connelly funny - it's very subjective.

As far as making fun of them, it's fair game to me, I won't be insulted if they made fun of me. I don't see how I insulted anyone with my labelling:

People who study ninjitsu in the article = wannabe Ninja (goes without saying, right?)

People who study iaido in the article = wannabe Samurai. Now I'm not saying that all Iaido practitioners are wannabe Samurai but these guys sure sounded like it, bowing to the swords and dressing in the casual samurai outfit. If a person wants to learn how to draw a sword is all this extra baggage necessary ? especially all this Senpai & kohai BS ? If these guys where honest with themselves they'd admit that all the uniforms and ceremony are still used because it's fun to pretend you're a Samurai for an hour once a week. There's nothing wrong in playing pretend, as long as your honest about it, hell I'm going paintballing at the weekend and I'll pretend that im a soldier. I'll be a wannabe soldier...there's nothing insulting about that.

Anyway, I don't agree about the "spiritual discipline" aspect of any martial art, the thought is absurd to me. I don't think I really know what "spiritual discipline" even means!

Take care

Michael O Leary · 31-08-2007 10:04AM

cowzerp wrote:

if its about martial arts that are beneficial to self defense, like most people want-then he was right to be disgusted

Hi Cowzerp,

The point I am making is that Iaido is not a martial art that is beneficial to self-defence. Even some Aikido people who describe their art as a spiritual discipline state their art is great for self-defence. The Iaido people do not state this. Check out www.iaido.ie. It does not mention self-defence anywhere. Like Kyudo, the Japanese “martial art” of archery, it is more a practise of Zen meditation. Check out Eugen Herrigel’s book, “Zen in the art of Archery”.

If the Iaido practitioners invented rituals such as bowing to their sword then it is a bit silly. If that is the etiquette used in traditional Iaido based on Japanese culture then their “ritual” is perfectly legitimate and should be respected.

Regards,

Michael
www.iewto.org

Rob Carry · 07-09-2007 03:04PM

Hi Michael,

Basically, I tried a martial art and gave my view of what I thought of it. I don't see anything wrong with that.

With regard to your view that I measured Iaido against fighting ability – martial arts vary and I have my own preferences – that's clear from all my articles but I've to do my best to cover them all. I enjoy martial arts that help improve either strength, fitness, flexibility, or most importantly, ability to fight. If a class doesn't do much for me on any of these levels but is still good craic or in some other way enjoyable then that's grand, I'll write about its positives. Iaido did none of the above. You make the point that it isn't supposed to, and that it's more about the spiritual side of things, but as I said in the article there wasn't much of that side of it in evidence. If there had of been, and I had of enjoyed it, I would have written about it in a more positive light. There wasn't, so I couldn't.

To ask you a question on this – what do you think I should have written about a class I didn't enjoy in any way and which I felt was actually a bit of a waste of time? Should I have pretended I liked it just because it was part of someone's 'culture'?

Maybe you think I went too far in laughing at the aspects of the Iaido class which I found funny, but to me saying, 'that's someone's culture so you shouldn't take the piss out of it' isn't a good position to adopt. As far as I'm concerned I've got the right to express my opinions on any subject and there are no cultural sacred cows. For me, just because something has been done for a long time by a people of a nationality other than my own doesn't mean we can't call it into question. I mean, did you ever see that thing they do over in Japan where they all sit on tree trunks and slide down a steep hill? That's been going on for years and people are always getting injured. I find it ridiculous. Same with that bull run thing in Spain, or the vegetarian festival in Thailand when they pierce there faces with bike chains and chop sticks, or the climbing that hill down the country in your bare feet. Do you really think I shouldn't be allowed to say so?

I think the Klingon analogy was spot on. I can't see any difference between guys who dress up as Samuri and guys who dress up as Klingons – both have an equal right to say it's their culture, and I have an equal right to laugh at them.

On being 'disgusted' about the punch bags coming down – I said that because it was at that point that I began to realise I had come to a martial arts centre but would not be getting to do any aspect of martial arts which I enjoy. You may not find the idea of running over the same sword drawing move for 10, 20 or 30 years but I do and I reserve the right to say that.

You said, “Was he disgusted with the absence of punch bags when he did the BJJ class or is BJJ less of an easy target?”

The difference between the two classes, from my point of view, is that I enjoyed BJJ and found it useful, while I didn't enjoy Iaido and I didn't find it useful. That's the extent of it.

To be honest, the lads at the class were sound enough and I don't think they'll take any great offence to the article. Me and Iaido were just a total mis-match so the article was just a bit of fun.

Cheers for the feedback though. You should form it into a letter and we'll print it in our paper.

Rob.

TKD SC · 07-09-2007 03:20PM

Rob Carry wrote:

, or the climbing that hill down the country in your bare feet.
.

Croagh Patrick in Mayo

bare foot and in middle of night for the truly devoted!

Rob Carry · 07-09-2007 03:37PM

TKD SC wrote:

Croagh Patrick in Mayo

bare foot and in middle of night for the truly devoted!

That's the one. And it always seems to be elderly people hobbling up the that poxy mountian in the drizzle. They should have to pay a sub to mountain rescue before they head off. Can't understand it meself.

Nothingcompares · 07-09-2007 04:15PM

lol

TKD SC · 07-09-2007 04:20PM

yeh, always drizzle! Don't know how they do it.
I did it once on a sunny day and nearly slipped the whole way down at the very top part! Damn runners instead of proper hiking boots!

They do it for St Patrick and the snakes!

Why when there's so many pubs that serve great Guinness down there would you want to?!

Still, impressive enough seeing those old ones do it. Although they do cheat with the big walking sticks!!

entropi · 07-09-2007 10:08PM

Read the one about Kendo myself, shame you couldn't find the hall but the club has had to move to a new hall for the time being as the one at St Davids is un-useable right now due to construction work. Directions to the new hall can be found at www.dublinkendo.com/dojo.php . It takes place in Parnells GAA club near coolock village.

Maybe you could drop by and watch the kendoka train one monday or thursday night, or watch some beginners on a sunday morning

Michael O Leary · 12-09-2007 02:18PM

Rob Carry wrote:

Hi Michael,

Basically, I tried a martial art and gave my view of what I thought of it. I don't see anything wrong with that.

Hi Rob,

The problem is that you were writing as a journalist for a newspaper and therefore your standards should have been higher. You seem to have recognised this when you wrote the following.

Rob Carry wrote:

I've decided that holding back on what I really think about some of these forms is actually quite dishonest and could be misleading for readers.

Rob Carry wrote:

martial arts vary and I have my own preferences. I enjoy martial arts that help improve either strength, fitness, flexibility, or most importantly, ability to fight. If a class doesn't do much for me on any of these levels but is still good craic or in some other way enjoyable then that's grand, I'll write about its positives. Iaido did none of the above.

Iaido does not claim to help improve strength, fitness, flexibility or ability to fight so that leaves "craic" and "enjoyment" which are highly subjective. If you are going to compare martial arts then you can only do so with objective elements.

Rob Carry wrote:

You make the point that it isn't supposed to, and that it's more about the spiritual side of things, but as I said in the article there wasn't much of that side of it in evidence. If there had of been, and I had of enjoyed it, I would have written about it in a more positive light. There wasn't, so I couldn't.

The basis of Iaido is that it is a mental exercise using Zen meditation. Spiritual benefits are more abstract and you are not going to see it by attending one class.

Rob Carry wrote:

To ask you a question on this – what do you think I should have written about a class I didn't enjoy in any way and which I felt was actually a bit of a waste of time?

Well you could have written about the different goals in martial arts and done a bit of research into Iaido so as to put the practise of it into context. You could then have written a bit about your personal experience in class with reference to what Iaido sets out to do.

"Waste of time"? Is a mental exercise a waste of time? Is meditation a waste of time? Again, put the practise of Iaido into context and don't just say it is rubbish because you didn't enjoy it or because it is not good "craic".

Rob Carry wrote:

For me, just because something has been done for a long time by a people of a nationality other than my own doesn't mean we can't call it into question.

The thing is Rob, you didn't question anything. You saw something which to your 25 year old eyes was strange and you made fun of it without examining the reasons for it. You referred to sacred cows. One of the socio-economic reason for cows being sacred in India is that they provide more dairy food long term and enable villagers to till fields and harvest food much more so than eating the cow and in a few days they are hungry. There are normally reasons for things if you bother to look.

Rob Carry wrote:

I think the Klingon analogy was spot on. I can't see any difference between guys who dress up as Samuri and guys who dress up as Klingons – both have an equal right to say it's their culture, and I have an equal right to laugh at them.

Ehhhm? Klingon dress is the product of someones imagination, the uniform in Iaido is based on traditional Japanese dress which is interrelated to peoples environment and way of life going back hundreds of years.

Do you make fun of the way Muay Thai/Thai Boxers dress when they practise their weapons or their performance of Ram Muay before fights or their head/arm bands they wear. When you compare the dress in Iaido to that in Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu, does it look so ridiculas?

Rob Carry wrote:

On being 'disgusted' about the punch bags coming down – I said that because it was at that point that I began to realise I had come to a martial arts centre but would not be getting to do any aspect of martial arts which I enjoy.

And was that the fault of the Iaido guys because you made out that you were disgusted with them?

Rob Carry wrote:

Me and Iaido were just a total mis-match so the article was just a bit of fun.

Sorry but I thought you mentioned being honest, not misleading, etc. It may have been fun for you but not fun for people who are serious about what they do.

Rob Carry wrote:

What I do instead to try and keep general readers interested is either tell a story, like the Eskrima one, or take the piss a bit, like the Iaido one.

I think this says it all.

Regards,

Michael
www.iewto.org

cowzerp · 12-09-2007 02:29PM

Micheal iado sounds shiite and he just said what he thinks-based oin the reasons he was going to the classes-self defense stories, this was not self defense in any way..everyone to there own, i would be pissed if i went to learn m,a and it was that class and would appreciate been told this in advance..

Roper · 12-09-2007 02:45PM

Michael O Leary wrote:

Hi Rob,

The problem is that you were writing as a journalist for a newspaper and therefore your standards should have been higher.

Michael,
Having met you and spoken to you I am aware that you are a nice bloke and a friendly fella. However, sometimes on this forum you can come across as an overly PC, pedantic sort, and this is one of those times. I can't believe someone on an internet forum has just scorned someone for their journalistic integrity. An internet forum!

ALL journalism is subjective. From Sunday night's match report to what will be written about Bertie tomorrow. The author isn't writing a report, he's writing a review, which involves opinion. I don't like everything I read, but I respect the author's right to express it.

Your right to reply shouldn't be based on your view of the author's age or his journalistic standards, ("through your 25 year old eyes"... Michael are you trying to come across as a wise old sage?:D).

The sacred cow thing is interesting Michael. I didn't know that about the Hindu tradition. What I will say is that if cows were more plentiful, as in Ireland, surely Indians would dismiss such traditions as rubbish and just eat the damn thing. Something being a tradition doesn't mean it's neccessarily worth keeping.

As an aside, I actually agree with you I thought the review was a bit harsh but I still laughed at it. I'm sure Iado is as interesting to some as stamp-collecting, hill walking, 5 a-side, or any of the other things that people amuse themselves with of an evening.

Gorman · 12-09-2007 02:54PM

Serious question:

Can anyone explain how iaido can improve your Zen meditation? What part of a practice addresses this area?

BTW, there is a difference between the Muay Thai/Thai Boxers dress, and the iaido dress . The Muay Thai guys dress up like Muay Thai guys - they are Muay Thai guys. The iado guys dress up like Samurai, they are NOT samurai - it is plain and simple make believe.

septern · 12-09-2007 03:27PM

Can anyone explain how iaido can improve your Zen meditation? What part of a practice addresses this area?- quote

it doesn't..........if you were living in japan and learning from an authentic, accreddited sensei, you might pick aspects of this up along the way after decades of training. in the west people go on about zen etc without any real understanding or knowledge of it.

if you ask the people involved they will rattle on no-mind(which is apt for some of them) and quest to one day make the perfect cut.

re swords arts, i'm afraid to say that in the west the people doing it would only be cosidered novices in japan and practise is focused on getting the basic movements right.

Gorman · 12-09-2007 04:50PM

septern wrote:

it doesn't..........if you were living in japan and learning from an authentic, accreddited sensei, you might pick aspects of this up along the way after decades of training. in the west people go on about zen etc without any real understanding or knowledge of it.

That is a ridiculous statement, what information brought you to this conclusion?
Does this mean that if you don't live in Brazil you could never have any "real understanding or knowledge" of BJJ?
Does this mean that if you don't live in Thailand you could never have any "real understanding or knowledge" of Mauy Thai?
Does this mean that if you don't live in Japan you could never have any "real understanding or knowledge" of Judo?
Why is iaido so special?

"in the west people go on about zen etc without any real understanding or knowledge of it." Read this back to yourself, its fairly paradoxical that you said it, unless that you're a Japanese Zen master of course

There's something strange going on here, I'm calling BS on iaido and zen, the responses hve been along the lines of:
1) Non-Japanese people can never understand it.
2) Non-Japanese people cannot question it because it is insulting to Japanese people and their culture.
3) Iaido is not about fitness, self defense or anything 'Martial', it is about spiritual discipline and Zen - this cannot be explained, especially to a Gaijin.

Read my earlier posts, I lived there for 3 years and friend of mine studied iaido. And it IS what it looks like - guys dressing up like Samurai, having fun trying to preserve an out of date skill set. There is nothing wrong with it, I don't see why people try to make more of it.

If anyone can tell me have iaido addresses zen, I would be happy to listen.

septern wrote:

re swords arts, i'm afraid to say that in the west the people doing it would only be cosidered novices in japan and practise is focused on getting the basic movements right.

Again, what information brought you to this conclusion?

adonis · 12-09-2007 05:30PM

sounds like michael has a valid point to me.

plus
good journalism should always strive for objectivity, not the editorial style practiced in the majority of tabloids these days.

DITTKD · 12-09-2007 06:44PM

This thread is epic.

Lads, these articles fall into the "general interest" category of writing rather than the "Martial Arts" category, or something other sort of thing.

Pinch of salt like.

Rob Carry · 14-09-2007 03:16PM

Hi Michael,

I think a big part of your problem stems from a lack of understanding of the different types of journalism. Yes, reporters should always strive to be as impartial as they can but columns are entirely different. Columnists are paid to give their opinions in an entertaining way and impartiality doesn't come into it. You said my standards should have been higher but to be honest, the vast majority of the feedback given on the articles has been positive so maybe you're just not up-to-speed on what people tend to find funny these days. Might be something to do with your age?

“Iaido does not claim to help improve strength, fitness, flexibility or ability to fight so that leaves "craic" and "enjoyment" which are highly subjective. If you are going to compare martial arts then you can only do so with objective elements.”

That is, again, absolutely incorrect. I'm not writing an encyclopedia of martial arts, it's a column and an overt expression of my personal opinions. It's supposed to be subjective. Some of the martial arts I get to try I'll enjoy and write positively about. Then there's some I that I won't enjoy.

“The basis of Iaido is that it is a mental exercise using Zen meditation. Spiritual benefits are more abstract and you are not going to see it by attending one class.”

How many classes do you think I should attend (in the hope that Zen meditation might be mentioned) before I write the 800-900 word column?

“Well you could have written about the different goals in martial arts and done a bit of research into Iaido so as to put the practise of it into context. You could then have written a bit about your personal experience in class with reference to what Iaido sets out to do.”

Sorry Michael but that sounds boring. I don't think you'd make much of a columnist. Only joking. Na, I did read up about iaido, I tracked down a class, went to it and did a bit more research when I was writing the column up, but there's only so much time you can put into these things. And anyway, I don't think searching for ways of putting a positive slant on a martial art I didn't rate is the right way to go. Better off being honest about it.

“Is meditation a waste of time?”

I tried it when I did hapkido. For me it was a bit of a waste of time. I felt like a plum sitting there cross-legged while the younglads in the kickboxing class that was up next started filing into the hall.

“..put the practise of Iaido into context and don't just say it is rubbish because you didn't enjoy it or because it is not good "craic"”

Again, the column is about my opinions on the various classes. I go along and give my verdict. I'm not going to pretend I liked something I didn't just in case I hurt someone's feelings. I mean they're supposed to be Samurai, I'm sure they'll live.

“One of the socio-economic reason for cows being sacred in India is that they provide more dairy food long term and enable villagers to till fields and harvest food much more so than eating the cow and in a few days they are hungry...”

I think Roper dealt with that point fairly elloquently. Cows are tasty and easy to catch.

“Do you make fun of the way Muay Thai/Thai Boxers dress when they practise their weapons or their performance of Ram Muay before fights or their head/arm bands they wear..”

And Gorman nailed that one.

“And was that the fault of the Iaido guys because you made out that you were disgusted with them?”

No I didn't.

“It may have been fun for you but not fun for people who are serious about what they do.”

What sort of impact do you think these articles have? It's just a humourous column about martial arts in a paper with a small circulation. They'll get over it. People in every class were serious about what they dido but they're all grown ups. You can be serious about what you do without taking yourself too seriously.

Re the Kendo classes – I actually doubt if I'll be able to make it along becuase I've already written about it. Shame though, as I said in the article I was looking forward to trying it out. Cheers anyway.

MA articles in Metro Eireann

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