Two manholes in back garden

wasim21k · 25-05-2007 5:59pm #1

hi guys i just visit my new home in Portlaoise, Kilminchy and there is Manhole in back garden not one but two about the ground level about 6 to 9 inches so i m bringing snager on Tuesday to see other things but i m just wandering can something be done about them? i mean i dont want to see them there can they be removed or lowered 3 feet in ground as i doubt at some stage they start smelling etc. i checked other properties in same row no one have just me any my property next door have two but no other house have even single any suggestion would be very helpful.

dame · 25-05-2007 9:16pm

They're there for access. If there's ever a problem and you have buried them, then you'll have a bigger more unsightly mess if they need to be dug up again. Just plant a few ground covering shrubs around them.

Borzoi · 28-05-2007 10:12am

wasim21k wrote:

hi guys i just visit my new home in Portlaoise, Kilminchy and there is Manhole in back garden not one but two about the ground level about 6 to 9 inches so i m bringing snager on Tuesday to see other things but i m just wandering can something be done about them? i mean i dont want to see them there can they be removed or lowered 3 feet in ground as i doubt at some stage they start smelling etc.

Dame all can be done about them, you're just unlucky that there's an access point needed there. TBH my parenst had 2 in their garden, never an issue. Either plant shrubs abround them, or put a large pot on them.

godtabh · 28-05-2007 12:08pm

Manholes shouldnt be in back gardens. Very bad practice.

There is also the issue of way leaves. You'll probably find that what ever county council or utility company owns the manholes have the right to access them for repair and what not.

At the very least the cover levels of the manholes should be at the same level as the ground around it.

You can aslo come up with arrangments and markers to hide the manhole but it isnt used that often

wasim21k · 28-05-2007 1:46pm

so you mean to say i have to live with them there is not way i can remove them and let say if there is something wrong they will come and dig my garden? :mad:
if i have to have planning permission to build my own home it will take about year if i m lucky how they get planning permission and i end up manhole in back garden???? they just dump pipes and manhole and then build houses on them??????? dont they have some common sence????

(believe me guys Irish rules are far beyond to be human friendly)

smashey · 28-05-2007 1:51pm

Check what they are allowing access to. I see you said Portlaosie, Kilminchy. Is it far out of Portlaoise? Do you have a septic tank?

wasim21k · 28-05-2007 1:56pm

smashey wrote:

Check what they are allowing access to. I see you said Portlaosie, Kilminchy. Is it far out of Portlaoise? Do you have a septic tank?

i m not sure that house have septic tank but tomorrow i m going to snag and i ask to that snagger and he said to me that 90% chances that its not possible to move them or remove them one thing to remember that i m talking about live all life there and i have to pay 35 years for that house. my question if some one want to have planning permission they will through millions of question at you but why these question not fall on builders?

smashey · 28-05-2007 2:02pm

The manholes will be there for a reason (access/inspection) and the builders would have had no choice in the matter.

CherieAmour · 28-05-2007 2:03pm

I can't see the problem. There are strict building regulations in place these days, and if there was anything wrong with putting 2 manholes in a back garden then surely this wouldnt have happened. I know a few people with manholes in their gardens who have never had any trouble - the only complaint is that they dont look nice.

Sure, if the council ever need access you might have to take a day off work or something, but i would gladly put up with this if it meant owning my own home.

Put some paving slabs (loose) on top of them and get a few nice plants.

godtabh · 28-05-2007 3:49pm

CherieAmour wrote:

I can't see the problem. There are strict building regulations in place these days, and if there was anything wrong with putting 2 manholes in a back garden then surely this wouldnt have happened. I know a few people with manholes in their gardens who have never had any trouble - the only complaint is that they dont look nice.

Sure, if the council ever need access you might have to take a day off work or something, but i would gladly put up with this if it meant owning my own home.

Put some paving slabs (loose) on top of them and get a few nice plants.

There is so many issues having these in your back gardens as stated above.

By manholes I assume they are the 1m diameter square/rectangular ones.

If they are smaller they are only A.Js (but these should be within 2-5m of the house).

I'm confused though. Is it a self build or an estate? If its a self build its your owb fault for laying the house like that. If its an estate ie a development by others then its just bad practice.

I would also ask your legal team to look into rights of ways/way leaves etc as these can be fairly strict some times.

CherieAmour · 28-05-2007 4:43pm

kearnsr wrote:

If they are smaller they are only A.Js (but these should be within 2-5m of the house).

....

I would also ask your legal team to look into rights of ways/way leaves etc as these can be fairly strict some times.

The ones I'm talking about are round ones, not rectangular, and certainly not a meter wide....what are A.Js?

What do you mean by way leaves and rights of ways in the context of them being strict?

Thanks

Saruman · 28-05-2007 4:47pm

My parents used to have 2 in our old house built in 1980. My dad covered them up with a few inches of dirt. There was always a slight mound and you knew you were walking over it but it did not affect us in any way. then again no one ever needed to dig up the garden or get access.

pwd · 28-05-2007 4:51pm

there were two manholes in the back garden of the house i grew up in
manhole in the back garden of my mother's house now.
Never thought anything of them.
The dog used to obsess with one of them during the summer I remember. I assume it smelt of something for her - but there was no smell detectable to humans.

godtabh · 28-05-2007 5:08pm

CherieAmour wrote:

The ones I'm talking about are round ones, not rectangular, and certainly not a meter wide....what are A.Js?

What do you mean by way leaves and rights of ways in the context of them being strict?

Thanks

A.J = acces junction for rodding etc

You can build over way leaves or have things placed with in 5 m of it stuff like that.

There is also the issue of liabilty if some one hurts them selfs on the manholes ie a kid falls on it while playing

DO0GLE · 29-05-2007 1:52pm

You can also paint them with green metal paint to help hide them. Then surround them with schrubs or pot plants.

CherieAmour · 30-05-2007 8:55am

kearnsr wrote:

At the very least the cover levels of the manholes should be at the same level as the ground around it.

...just a quick one on this - if they aren't, what are the options? Can you pare them down or is adding topsoil the easier option?

godtabh · 30-05-2007 9:08am

CherieAmour wrote:

...just a quick one on this - if they aren't, what are the options? Can you pare them down or is adding topsoil the easier option?

Easiest thing to do would be to add in some extra top soil. Depenind on cover levels and how the manhole was formed it would be possible to reduce the dept of the manhole but at this stage I wouldnt see that happening

CherieAmour · 30-05-2007 11:43am

kearnsr wrote:

Easiest thing to do would be to add in some extra top soil. Depenind on cover levels and how the manhole was formed it would be possible to reduce the dept of the manhole but at this stage I wouldnt see that happening

Thanks

Is adding topsoil a big job for a small garden if the manhole is about an inch or 2 above ground level...???

godtabh · 30-05-2007 1:09pm

CherieAmour wrote:

Thanks Is adding topsoil a big job for a small garden if the manhole is about an inch or 2 above ground level...???

It wouldnt be a big job.

Depending on the site you may have to buy topsoil which has a cost involved.

You should be able to lay it your self but as this is in the snag stage the builder should do this for you

clg23 · 30-05-2007 2:24pm

I have a square manhole thing (approx 1m x 1m) it is rusted and rotting and has become a danger. Is it the councils responsibility to replace the cover?

godtabh · 30-05-2007 2:56pm

clg23 wrote:

I have a square manhole thing (approx 1m x 1m) it is rusted and rotting and has become a danger. Is it the councils responsibility to replace the cover?

This is were the problem can come up.

The council will repair it but will charge you becuase its in private property. Nothing like this should be in private proerty.
Same if it gets blocked. To unblock it will cost you

clg23 · 30-05-2007 3:11pm

I'm considering covering it up, i have only recently bought the house and from the look of the manhole cover i doubt it has been opened in 10/20 years..

godtabh · 30-05-2007 3:24pm

clg23 wrote:

I'm considering covering it up, i have only recently bought the house and from the look of the manhole cover i doubt it has been opened in 10/20 years..

you'd probably get away with it

CherieAmour · 30-05-2007 4:15pm

Thanks for the info so far kearnsr, it's just a relation has one and I think it annoys him sticking up so I was just wondering what the options were.

kearnsr wrote:

The council will repair it but will charge you becuase its in private property. Nothing like this should be in private proerty.
Same if it gets blocked. To unblock it will cost you

This is crazy stuff!! If it is a council drain access and you have no choice but to have it in your garden, if work needs doing on it, surely you couldn't be charged for it....I thought if it was blocked or whatever, you would call the council and just grant them access to your garden to fix it.

If it was out on the road they wouldn't have anyone to charge so shouldn't the same apply??

clg23 · 30-05-2007 4:38pm

This is crazy stuff!! If it is a council drain access and you have no choice but to have it in your garden, if work needs doing on it, surely you couldn't be charged for it....I thought if it was blocked or whatever, you would call the council and just grant them access to your garden to fix it.

If it was out on the road they wouldn't have anyone to charge so shouldn't the same apply??

It does seem crazy that council property that has become a danger would be up to me to pay? I wonder if somebody fell through it and got injured who would be liable? But when it comes to the council there isnt much that suprises me...

godtabh · 30-05-2007 5:14pm

CherieAmour wrote:

Thanks for the info so far kearnsr, it's just a relation has one and I think it annoys him sticking up so I was just wondering what the options were.

This is crazy stuff!! If it is a council drain access and you have no choice but to have it in your garden, if work needs doing on it, surely you couldn't be charged for it....I thought if it was blocked or whatever, you would call the council and just grant them access to your garden to fix it.

If it was out on the road they wouldn't have anyone to charge so shouldn't the same apply??

It is crazy but I've seen it happen. Its the fact that its in private grounds thats the big problem.

Its different if its say the foul outlet from your house going into the main trunk sewer in the road. If that blocks (the foul outlet) thats up to you.

It does seem crazy that council property that has become a danger would be up to me to pay? I wonder if somebody fell through it and got injured who would be liable? But when it comes to the council there isnt much that suprises me...

Not sure on the legal side of things

antoinolachtnai · 30-05-2007 5:38pm

What makes you think it belongs to the council? Does it say anything about it in your deeds?

More than likely, it's a shared drain for you and your neighbours. It belongs to you and any repairs to the drain are up to you and the neighbours.

lushballs · 30-05-2007 5:48pm

Moved in to a new house last year.
Manhole in middle of small back garden which was surrounded by an oversized amount of concrete. Thanks guys! Decided to extend decking. Covered ugly manhole/concrete with decking. Used screws instead of nails for decking over manhole in case it ever needs to be opened. I imagine i will be replacing decking long before manhole needs to be accessed. Please God!

Posy · 30-05-2007 8:35pm

I too have a manhole in my back garden. Like someone has already described, it's about 1m square. After 5 or 6 years living in this property we discovered that it is indeed the foul outlet thingy that's been described. Basically we pour bleach down it every 6 months or so and if it gets blocked (happened twice- full of feces, toilet roll etc, totally STINKS) it's up to us to unblock it. My house is rented and I'm glad about that because the thought of ever owning a house with one of those disgusting things in the yard turns me right off. Having something like that on private property is crazy! Yuck. :mad:

antoinolachtnai · 30-05-2007 10:43pm

Karyn wrote:

I too have a manhole in my back garden. Like someone has already described, it's about 1m square. After 5 or 6 years living in this property we discovered that it is indeed the foul outlet thingy that's been described. Basically we pour bleach down it every 6 months or so and if it gets blocked (happened twice- full of feces, toilet roll etc, totally STINKS) it's up to us to unblock it. My house is rented and I'm glad about that because the thought of ever owning a house with one of those disgusting things in the yard turns me right off. Having something like that on private property is crazy! Yuck. :mad:

Your drain is blocked. It is very badly blocked if it gets in such a state within six months. It may be broken. Your landlord and neighbours should get this fixed, because if it collapses, it's going to be very expensive to repair.

There is really no way to arrange houses with back gardens so that there are no shared private drains and no manholes. It just doesn't work that way, what with gravity and all.

CherieAmour · 31-05-2007 8:29am

antoinolachtnai wrote:

What makes you think it belongs to the council? Does it say anything about it in your deeds?

More than likely, it's a shared drain for you and your neighbours. It belongs to you and any repairs to the drain are up to you and the neighbours.

I just would have thought that because the management of waste etc is the responsibility of the council (with directives from Dept. of Environment), that it would be up to them to supply people living in the council area with clean and efficient drainage. If this is not happening, then I thought it would be council responsibility to rectify the situation....via your manhole if necessary!

antoinolachtnai · 31-05-2007 8:33am

The councils only run the public drains. They don't have responsibility for private drains. The private drains are an arrangement between you and your neighbours.

CherieAmour · 31-05-2007 8:40am

antoinolachtnai wrote:

The councils only run the public drains. They don't have responsibility for private drains. The private drains are an arrangement between you and your neighbours.

It appears so....

http://www.dublincity.ie/shaping_the_city/environment/drainage_services/drainage_division.asp

godtabh · 31-05-2007 9:10am

antoinolachtnai wrote:

There is really no way to arrange houses with back gardens so that there are no shared private drains and no manholes. It just doesn't work that way, what with gravity and all.

A 1m sqaure manhole is genearrly not used in private houses. The foul and surface water run off from houses would genaely drain by a 100-150mm diameter pipe via AJ's to the trunk sewers out on the main road. AJ's are around 450-500mm square.

As you said all these drains are usally gravity feeds (foul can be pumped Co Co dont like surface water to be pumped but it does happen).

It is very possible to arrange houses so that there is no manholes in gardens. Sure I do it most days.

But maybe you are getting confused between AJ's and manholes. Bot do the same thing but their makeup is very different

CherieAmour · 31-05-2007 9:26am

kearnsr wrote:

The foul and surface water run off from houses would genaely drain by a 100-150mm diameter pipe via AJ's to the trunk sewers out on the main road. AJ's are around 450-500mm square.

How deep is an AJ on average?

....and what is meant by "all these drains are usally gravity feeds"...
Thanks for the info so far, I'm learning loads here....

Wondering what the OP has decided to do....

godtabh · 31-05-2007 1:11pm

CherieAmour wrote:

How deep is an AJ on average?

....and what is meant by "all these drains are usally gravity feeds"...
Thanks for the info so far, I'm learning loads here....

Wondering what the OP has decided to do....

Water flows under gravity i.e down hill is what I meant

I cant remember the avearge depth. Prob bout 450mm deep. Its made of plastic. Some times the surface water ones will have a grill on them

antoinolachtnai · 31-05-2007 2:47pm

kearnsr wrote:

It is very possible to arrange houses so that there is no manholes in gardens. Sure I do it most days.

Well, ok, it is possible, but when you're fitting in with existing housing layouts and old drains it's often not possible. Our row of houses stands with a downward slope behind it. There is only one narrow path between the houses behind, and all the surrounding possible exits are blocked up. All of the drains have to converge and go out that way.

godtabh · 31-05-2007 4:01pm

antoinolachtnai wrote:

Well, ok, it is possible, but when you're fitting in with existing housing layouts and old drains it's often not possible. Our row of houses stands with a downward slope behind it. There is only one narrow path between the houses behind, and all the surrounding possible exits are blocked up. All of the drains have to converge and go out that way.

But we are talking about a new house (arent we?).

I'm only in the game a few years but its always been bad practice to put manholes in backgarden. In the good old days who knows.

With out seeing a layout I cant tell you how to drain your garden but there is things like carrier drains/frenc drains percolation etc for surface water.

For foul water bathrooms and the like can be arranged so that their outfall is to the front.

If the engineer put some thought into it, it wouldnt be so bad.

antoinolachtnai · 31-05-2007 4:07pm

Foul sewer to the front? Yeah, could do that I suppose, but it is a lot of moving and there is a lot of stuff under my pavement already.

A lot of new developments are infill, and I'm sure that makes things a bit tricky.

Still, there is no denying that back garden manholes shouldn't be needed very often.

godtabh · 31-05-2007 8:18pm

antoinolachtnai wrote:

Foul sewer to the front? Yeah, could do that I suppose, but it is a lot of moving and there is a lot of stuff under my pavement already.

A lot of new developments are infill, and I'm sure that makes things a bit tricky.

Still, there is no denying that back garden manholes shouldn't be needed very often.

Wouldnt suggest you even try it. Its very difficult to get new connections. The co co would have you running around in circles

Victor · 31-05-2007 10:04pm

kearnsr wrote:

A 1m sqaure manhole is genearrly not used in private houses.

Not uncommon in older houses up to I'd say 1970.

Posy · 01-06-2007 10:12pm

antoinolachtnai wrote:

Your drain is blocked. It is very badly blocked if it gets in such a state within six months.

It's only been blocked twice in about thirteen years. I wouldn't really consider that blocked.

antoinolachtnai wrote:

There is really no way to arrange houses with back gardens so that there are no shared private drains and no manholes. It just doesn't work that way, what with gravity and all.

My point is it's a bit unfair that, as someone pointed out, the council only deals with the public drains and doesn't have responsibility for private ones. I would have thought that new houses would avoid this but looks like I was wrong.
Think I'll get me an apartment... :rolleyes:

godtabh · 04-06-2007 9:34pm

Victor wrote:

Not uncommon in older houses up to I'd say 1970.

Its for a new house so this probably apply

barryfitz · 07-06-2007 12:08pm

smear some vaseline around the edges of your manholes, and then bury them! the vaseline will make it easier to bury them!

godtabh · 07-06-2007 1:20pm

barryfitz wrote:

smear some vaseline around the edges of your manholes, and then bury them! the vaseline will make it easier to bury them!

Any one see that tumble weed go by?

wasim21k · 12-06-2007 9:11pm

well guy thanks for help.
my snagging guy said that it can not dumped or removed so you have to live with them as in my second message I said your rules are not human friendly and now here I m ending up two manhole in back garden.
As some one said there is liability if some one injure themselves on manhole but question who?
And second they are about 1m x 1m and as I said not one but 2 about 4 to 6 inches above ground level. And I don’t have any plan for decking. If there would be one I at least make cemetery of co co and pray and keep hop to never need of open it. Now you might be thinking I m bit angry but just imagine you are on my place what would you do after this all discussion? It took 3 years to manage to get mortgage.
I m having this problem just coz some one wasn’t up to the job and designee every thing this way (my country considered in 3rd world may be we don’t have that advance tech in govt offices to do every thing but believe me I never seen in any estate or in nay house manhole in back or even in front garden these things are on roads and its council’s job to take care of them).
But thanks for helping and giving your opinion.

babytooth · 13-06-2007 10:19am

wasim21k wrote:

well guy thanks for help.
my snagging guy said that it can not dumped or removed so you have to live with them as in my second message I said your rules are not human friendly and now here I m ending up two manhole in back garden.
As some one said there is liability if some one injure themselves on manhole but question who?
And second they are about 1m x 1m and as I said not one but 2 about 4 to 6 inches above ground level. And I don’t have any plan for decking. If there would be one I at least make cemetery of co co and pray and keep hop to never need of open it. Now you might be thinking I m bit angry but just imagine you are on my place what would you do after this all discussion? It took 3 years to manage to get mortgage.
I m having this problem just coz some one wasn’t up to the job and designee every thing this way (my country considered in 3rd world may be we don’t have that advance tech in govt offices to do every thing but believe me I never seen in any estate or in nay house manhole in back or even in front garden these things are on roads and its council’s job to take care of them).
But thanks for helping and giving your opinion.

is it just me or does anyone else find this painfully hard to read / understand as the grammar is all over the "shop".

luckat · 13-06-2007 10:54am

<shrug> I didn't find it hard to read. Wasim's not a native speaker, but expresses himself perfectly clearly.

I have a similar problem - would love to find a drains expert to fix my drain in the back, which constantly clogs up, but I'm afraid of being charged a huge amount for the job. It's been 'fixed' twice by guys who said "Ah, it's just a soakaway, have to dig it properly and it'll be fine", and each time it clogged up again within six months.

antoinolachtnai · 13-06-2007 11:05am

Did anybody run a camera through it? Did they give you a copy of the video?

CherieAmour · 13-06-2007 2:27pm

babytooth wrote:

is it just me or does anyone else find this painfully hard to read / understand as the grammar is all over the "shop".

I can't understand why "shop" is in inverted commas.

OP, it's not that someone wasn't up to the job - I know it has been said on here that it is avoidable but there are lots of housing estates where every 4th or so house has one in the back garden. For the most part, they don't cause any trouble. Often never any for people!

carveone · 13-06-2007 3:36pm

wasim21k wrote:

well guy thanks for help.
As some one said there is liability if some one injure themselves on manhole but question who?

You are always liable for injury occurring on your property.

My parents have, um, three manholes I believe. One on the back porch veranda area which is flush with the concrete (probably because the veranda was rebuilt in the 80s and they made sure it was flush), one around the side of the house which is not visible. These two are access points below their respective toilets which then run to another one at the side of the back garden. I'm just saying you can live with it

It's the one in the garden which is noticable - this is the common sewer drain and there is one in every second house (I'm getting to my point...). It's about 4-6" above ground level. It would look kinda crap except my Dad put these spare white paving stones on top and now it just looks like a barbeque area. In fact, it is the barbeque area!

My point is: Be aware that your neighbours sewer flows into that point. When my parents neighbours (who are a bunch of tossers) had a problem, they blamed my parents who then had to unblock the sewer from their side. This is not fun*.

Arrange in advance with your neighbours that they will share the cost if a blockage occurs. It's much much fairer that way.

never seen in any estate or in nay house manhole in back or even in front garden these things are on roads and its council’s job to take care of them).
But thanks for helping and giving your opinion.

I believe the main reason is a big reluctance to run sewer drains underneath the house. If the toilets are in the rear of the house this is what you'd have to do. If a breakage occurred in a drain underneath... shudder... can't imagine...

Wait, there's another one in our driveway. 4 manholes!!!

Conor.

* Actually it's not that bad. After you gag for about 5 minutes, you get over it. I've done it several times on access points filled to the top (about 6-7 ft deep). It's no biggy. I wouldn't recommend it as a job now, but boy could you charge a crap load of money

Two manholes in back garden

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