Two manholes in back garden

antoinolachtnai

The councils only run the public drains. They don't have responsibility for private drains. The private drains are an arrangement between you and your neighbours.

CherieAmour

antoinolachtnai wrote:

The councils only run the public drains. They don't have responsibility for private drains. The private drains are an arrangement between you and your neighbours.

It appears so....

http://www.dublincity.ie/shaping_the_city/environment/drainage_services/drainage_division.asp

godtabh

antoinolachtnai wrote:

There is really no way to arrange houses with back gardens so that there are no shared private drains and no manholes. It just doesn't work that way, what with gravity and all.

A 1m sqaure manhole is genearrly not used in private houses. The foul and surface water run off from houses would genaely drain by a 100-150mm diameter pipe via AJ's to the trunk sewers out on the main road. AJ's are around 450-500mm square.

As you said all these drains are usally gravity feeds (foul can be pumped Co Co dont like surface water to be pumped but it does happen).

It is very possible to arrange houses so that there is no manholes in gardens. Sure I do it most days.

But maybe you are getting confused between AJ's and manholes. Bot do the same thing but their makeup is very different

CherieAmour

kearnsr wrote:

The foul and surface water run off from houses would genaely drain by a 100-150mm diameter pipe via AJ's to the trunk sewers out on the main road. AJ's are around 450-500mm square.

How deep is an AJ on average?

....and what is meant by "all these drains are usally gravity feeds"...
Thanks for the info so far, I'm learning loads here....

Wondering what the OP has decided to do....

godtabh

CherieAmour wrote:

How deep is an AJ on average?

....and what is meant by "all these drains are usally gravity feeds"...
Thanks for the info so far, I'm learning loads here....

Wondering what the OP has decided to do....

Water flows under gravity i.e down hill is what I meant

I cant remember the avearge depth. Prob bout 450mm deep. Its made of plastic. Some times the surface water ones will have a grill on them

antoinolachtnai

kearnsr wrote:

It is very possible to arrange houses so that there is no manholes in gardens. Sure I do it most days.

Well, ok, it is possible, but when you're fitting in with existing housing layouts and old drains it's often not possible. Our row of houses stands with a downward slope behind it. There is only one narrow path between the houses behind, and all the surrounding possible exits are blocked up. All of the drains have to converge and go out that way.

godtabh

antoinolachtnai wrote:

Well, ok, it is possible, but when you're fitting in with existing housing layouts and old drains it's often not possible. Our row of houses stands with a downward slope behind it. There is only one narrow path between the houses behind, and all the surrounding possible exits are blocked up. All of the drains have to converge and go out that way.

But we are talking about a new house (arent we?).

I'm only in the game a few years but its always been bad practice to put manholes in backgarden. In the good old days who knows.

With out seeing a layout I cant tell you how to drain your garden but there is things like carrier drains/frenc drains percolation etc for surface water.

For foul water bathrooms and the like can be arranged so that their outfall is to the front.

If the engineer put some thought into it, it wouldnt be so bad.

antoinolachtnai

Foul sewer to the front? Yeah, could do that I suppose, but it is a lot of moving and there is a lot of stuff under my pavement already.

A lot of new developments are infill, and I'm sure that makes things a bit tricky.

Still, there is no denying that back garden manholes shouldn't be needed very often.

godtabh

antoinolachtnai wrote:

Foul sewer to the front? Yeah, could do that I suppose, but it is a lot of moving and there is a lot of stuff under my pavement already.

A lot of new developments are infill, and I'm sure that makes things a bit tricky.

Still, there is no denying that back garden manholes shouldn't be needed very often.

Wouldnt suggest you even try it. Its very difficult to get new connections. The co co would have you running around in circles

Victor

kearnsr wrote:

A 1m sqaure manhole is genearrly not used in private houses.

Not uncommon in older houses up to I'd say 1970.

Posy

antoinolachtnai wrote:

Your drain is blocked. It is very badly blocked if it gets in such a state within six months.

It's only been blocked twice in about thirteen years. I wouldn't really consider that blocked.

antoinolachtnai wrote:

There is really no way to arrange houses with back gardens so that there are no shared private drains and no manholes. It just doesn't work that way, what with gravity and all.

My point is it's a bit unfair that, as someone pointed out, the council only deals with the public drains and doesn't have responsibility for private ones. I would have thought that new houses would avoid this but looks like I was wrong.
Think I'll get me an apartment... :rolleyes:

godtabh

Victor wrote:

Not uncommon in older houses up to I'd say 1970.

Its for a new house so this probably apply

barryfitz

smear some vaseline around the edges of your manholes, and then bury them! the vaseline will make it easier to bury them!

godtabh

barryfitz wrote:

smear some vaseline around the edges of your manholes, and then bury them! the vaseline will make it easier to bury them!

Any one see that tumble weed go by?

wasim21k

well guy thanks for help.
my snagging guy said that it can not dumped or removed so you have to live with them as in my second message I said your rules are not human friendly and now here I m ending up two manhole in back garden.
As some one said there is liability if some one injure themselves on manhole but question who?
And second they are about 1m x 1m and as I said not one but 2 about 4 to 6 inches above ground level. And I don’t have any plan for decking. If there would be one I at least make cemetery of co co and pray and keep hop to never need of open it. Now you might be thinking I m bit angry but just imagine you are on my place what would you do after this all discussion? It took 3 years to manage to get mortgage.
I m having this problem just coz some one wasn’t up to the job and designee every thing this way (my country considered in 3rd world may be we don’t have that advance tech in govt offices to do every thing but believe me I never seen in any estate or in nay house manhole in back or even in front garden these things are on roads and its council’s job to take care of them).
But thanks for helping and giving your opinion.

babytooth

wasim21k wrote:

well guy thanks for help.
my snagging guy said that it can not dumped or removed so you have to live with them as in my second message I said your rules are not human friendly and now here I m ending up two manhole in back garden.
As some one said there is liability if some one injure themselves on manhole but question who?
And second they are about 1m x 1m and as I said not one but 2 about 4 to 6 inches above ground level. And I don’t have any plan for decking. If there would be one I at least make cemetery of co co and pray and keep hop to never need of open it. Now you might be thinking I m bit angry but just imagine you are on my place what would you do after this all discussion? It took 3 years to manage to get mortgage.
I m having this problem just coz some one wasn’t up to the job and designee every thing this way (my country considered in 3rd world may be we don’t have that advance tech in govt offices to do every thing but believe me I never seen in any estate or in nay house manhole in back or even in front garden these things are on roads and its council’s job to take care of them).
But thanks for helping and giving your opinion.

is it just me or does anyone else find this painfully hard to read / understand as the grammar is all over the "shop".

luckat

<shrug> I didn't find it hard to read. Wasim's not a native speaker, but expresses himself perfectly clearly.

I have a similar problem - would love to find a drains expert to fix my drain in the back, which constantly clogs up, but I'm afraid of being charged a huge amount for the job. It's been 'fixed' twice by guys who said "Ah, it's just a soakaway, have to dig it properly and it'll be fine", and each time it clogged up again within six months.

antoinolachtnai

Did anybody run a camera through it? Did they give you a copy of the video?

CherieAmour

babytooth wrote:

is it just me or does anyone else find this painfully hard to read / understand as the grammar is all over the "shop".

I can't understand why "shop" is in inverted commas.

OP, it's not that someone wasn't up to the job - I know it has been said on here that it is avoidable but there are lots of housing estates where every 4th or so house has one in the back garden. For the most part, they don't cause any trouble. Often never any for people!

carveone

wasim21k wrote:

well guy thanks for help.
As some one said there is liability if some one injure themselves on manhole but question who?

You are always liable for injury occurring on your property.

My parents have, um, three manholes I believe. One on the back porch veranda area which is flush with the concrete (probably because the veranda was rebuilt in the 80s and they made sure it was flush), one around the side of the house which is not visible. These two are access points below their respective toilets which then run to another one at the side of the back garden. I'm just saying you can live with it

It's the one in the garden which is noticable - this is the common sewer drain and there is one in every second house (I'm getting to my point...). It's about 4-6" above ground level. It would look kinda crap except my Dad put these spare white paving stones on top and now it just looks like a barbeque area. In fact, it is the barbeque area!

My point is: Be aware that your neighbours sewer flows into that point. When my parents neighbours (who are a bunch of tossers) had a problem, they blamed my parents who then had to unblock the sewer from their side. This is not fun*.

Arrange in advance with your neighbours that they will share the cost if a blockage occurs. It's much much fairer that way.

never seen in any estate or in nay house manhole in back or even in front garden these things are on roads and its council’s job to take care of them).
But thanks for helping and giving your opinion.

I believe the main reason is a big reluctance to run sewer drains underneath the house. If the toilets are in the rear of the house this is what you'd have to do. If a breakage occurred in a drain underneath... shudder... can't imagine...

Wait, there's another one in our driveway. 4 manholes!!!

Conor.

* Actually it's not that bad. After you gag for about 5 minutes, you get over it. I've done it several times on access points filled to the top (about 6-7 ft deep). It's no biggy. I wouldn't recommend it as a job now, but boy could you charge a crap load of money

carveone

luckat wrote:

I have a similar problem - would love to find a drains expert to fix my drain in the back, which constantly clogs up, but I'm afraid of being charged a huge amount for the job. It's been 'fixed' twice by guys who said "Ah, it's just a soakaway, have to dig it properly and it'll be fine", and each time it clogged up again within six months.

A lot of older drain pipes are made of clay which gets small cracks in it for various reasons - ground settles a bit, there's a heavy wall above that point etc. Also section joints can be an issue. Grass and roots grow through and the grass causes, um, stuff to snag there. My parents have a similar problem but the cost of digging up the garden to replace the pipe would be very significant. You need your neighbours to share that cost...

As antoinolachtnai says, a survey with mini camera would be an excellent start.

luckat

It's just a soakaway at the moment - I'd like to get it connected properly to the city drainage system, rather than just soaking away at a slant down into the garden.

luckat

By the way, Antoin, there'd be no point in sending a video camera down. All they'd find is 12 or 15 feet of blocked-up tube leading down into the soil!

I'd like to find someone who can link the whole thing into the system, but I'm afraid of being charged a huge amount for the work.

antoinolachtnai

Ah right, probably true.

Is the soakaway really working properly? It might be worth reading http://www.pavingexpert.com/drain08.html on the technicalities. I don't know why it would 'clog up'. I can see that it could overflow if there isn't enough capacity.

i don't know if you'd get permission to connect it into the main system; the soakaway is probably there because there isn't enough capacity in the local mains drainage to absorb rainfall on roofs in your area.

luckat

Thanks, Antoin.

I actually doubt that's the reason for the soakaway, as there are other gutters into other drains that go into the system from the house. I'd say it's someone's cack-handed 1930s drain idea.

Incidentally, this is the drain that the kitchen sink drains into.

antoinolachtnai

Well, how far is the drain leading to the soakaway from your regular drains? Basically, you need to get a builder to pipe them togther, ensuring there's a fall, and join them together.

luckat

Not far - about 10 feet, I suppose. It always seemed like that to me - just run one drain into the other - but builders get a kind of crusading light in their eyes and say "Ah no, you just need to make the soakaway deeper" - then they do it, and a couple of months later....

antoinolachtnai

But how do they make the soakaway deeper? It sounds like a lot of work, if your soakaway is full of rubble and stones. Does your soakaway actually flood when it rains? Or is there something clogging it?

luckat

It never floods, but it's completely clogged up all the time, with revolting-smelling stuff in which there's now a fine ecosystem of earthworms, etc.