[US/IRL] 3X17 - "Catch 22" [ SPOILERS WITHIN ]

Sad Professor · 23-04-2007 11:44PM

Anima wrote:

Just after watching it again. There was a lot of talk of sacrifice in this episode.

It makes me think that someone is gonna lay their life down for the greater good but what? Desmond for Charlie?

I ****ing hope not

It's interesting to consider the role sacrifice has previous played on the island. Remember what happened with Locke and Boone? Locke later said: "Boone was a sacrifice that the island demanded. What happened to him at that plane was a part of a chain of events that led us here... that led us down a path, that led you and me to this day, to right now."

Clearly Desmond is going to have to make a sacrifice so perhaps that sacrifice is Charlie but unlike Locke he's having a harder time making it. Or perhaps the sacrifice is himself, his own life. Or perhaps it's Penny, maybe he must sacrifice whatever chance he has of being reunited with her in order to save Charlie.

Or finally maybe it's Charlie who must make the sacrifice—for the greater good of the survivors.

Can't wait to see how this all plays out

ZiabR · 24-04-2007 12:03AM

7

gutta wrote:

Mordeth, you need to brush up on yer maths, pi is only 3 and a bit. Piss poor in other words.

LOL

rip2roar · 24-04-2007 12:12AM

9

Jeff_Lebowski wrote:

That's not island scenery in the background. I'm not 100% sure but I think that was when Penny and Desmond were talking outside the stadium - a flashback from the start of season 2.

It is island scenery, the stadium was at night. Also its in his vision

ziggy · 24-04-2007 04:21AM

6

This post has been deleted.

ZiabR · 24-04-2007 10:04AM

7

ziggy67 wrote:

I'll give it a 7/10.
I awarded an extra 2 points for Desmond being a Celtic fan and for singing a Celtic song in the episode but had to deduct them both for Desmonds ex having the worst attempt at a Scottish accent i've ever heard on TV or Film and for not letting that a**hole Charlie die!!
Let him go Brother

Yeah her accent was brutal.

upmeath · 24-04-2007 10:06AM

6

logik wrote:

Yeah her accent was brutal.

Her brother was even worse. For a split second I thought that scene was being made in Ballyfermot, and only thanks to his muck accent.

ZiabR · 24-04-2007 10:32AM

7

LMAO mate, aye. Another thing that annoyed me is when Des got a dig in the head. The blood was so so fake looking, and that scene annoyed me.

Brianb8802 · 24-04-2007 11:21AM

7

Brianb8802 wrote:

When a person falls of the scaffold, the harness catches and their bodies are left dangling upright. But the thing is they can only be left hanging for a max of 20min or something like that, because all the blood in the body goes to your legs, and your heart has to work overtime to pump the blood around the body. This leads to heart failure. So me thinks thats whats up with her.

logik wrote:

Hmm not so sure i fully believe that

Dug this up from the HSA website

wrote:

HSA website

The need for rapid and effective rescue is particularly important when using personal protective systems where a delay might have severe consequences, e.g. when someone is left hanging motionless in a harness after a fall. In a worst-case scenario, loss of consciousness followed by death could occur in a few minutes. This phenomenon, known as suspension trauma, is caused by a number of factors, but is principally due to the disturbance of blood flow to the vital organs, especially the brain but also the heart and kidneys, which is an effect of hanging motionless, and possibly of the restriction of blood flow to the limbs by the harness. It can be exacerbated by other factors such as shock or injury caused by the fall itself. The time before loss of consciousness depends both on the severity and the combination of these factors, and can vary from about six minutes to two hours.

My fridays weren't too wasted at those work at height safety meetings:D

ZiabR · 24-04-2007 11:57AM

7

Wow nice, that proves me wrong

. Thanks for that, so it is all very possible.

MOH · 24-04-2007 01:42PM

Anima wrote:

Just after watching it again. There was a lot of talk of sacrifice in this episode.

It makes me think that someone is gonna lay their life down for the greater good but what? Desmond for Charlie?

I ****ing hope not

I presumed it was just to keep you thinking that Desmond was going to sacrifice Charlie for the sake of his vision.

Or else just to get Abraham in there as "bad father of the week", for being willing to sacrifice his son.

That does seem to be a common link between many people on the island.
Inadequate fathers.

Just in case,

- Jack/Claire's father, for running off, having an affair, and not letting either family know about the other;
- Sawyer, for running off (although he doesn't know he's a father);
- Locke's father (?), for running off, being a general scumbag, and trying to kill Locke;
- Aaron's father, for abandoning Claire when she got pregnant;
- Hurley's father, for ... running off;
- Sun's father, for being a thug, and trying to turn Jin into one
- Kate's stepfather, for beating up her mother

Or expand it to family member with issues between them, and you can include:
- Ana Lucia and her mother
- Eko and his brother
- Boone and Shannon
- Charlie and his brother

Think I had a few more, but can't remember them right now.

Maybe they're all there to sort things out with their families, and when they do, they move on

ZiabR · 24-04-2007 02:16PM

7

Does sorting out your family problems involve dying? I don't think so.

24-04-2007 02:40PM

4

That episode bordered on the boring at times.

MOH · 24-04-2007 02:57PM

logik wrote:

Does sorting out your family problems involve dying? I don't think so.

Well, it might solve the existing problem. Although there's better ways.

Anyway, I wasn't seriously suggesting that. It just seems like there's a lot of family strife in the Losties' backgrounds. But I've gone way off topic, so I'll shut up.

ZiabR · 24-04-2007 02:59PM

7

MOH wrote:

Well, it might solve the existing problem. Although there's better ways.

Anyway, I wasn't seriously suggesting that. It just seems like there's a lot of family strife in the Losties' backgrounds. But I've gone way off topic, so I'll shut up.

Nah mate, i wasn't having a go at you, it was my lame way of trying to be sarcastic :P.

cooker3 · 24-04-2007 03:24PM

Mr.Nice Guy wrote:

I watched it a second time myself and found this exchange between Desmond and Hurley pretty interesting:

Quote:
Hurley: Look, dude. You want me to take you to the wire, I want an explanation.
Desmond: I saw a sequence of events, things that are going to happen.
Hurley: What'd you see?
Desmond: It was, it was like a sorta jigsaw puzzle. Only, I didn’t have the picture on the box so, I don’t know how the pieces fit exactly, but one of the pieces, the first one, it was your pulling the cable out of the sand.
Hurley: So, what are the other pieces?
Desmond: If I tell you that, it'll change the picture in the box.

Is this related to what Ben told Locke about the magic box and did Des "change the picture" by saving Charlie?

Linderoff has firmly denied that the box that Ben was talking about is real, said something along the lines of it would have been the stupidest idea in the history of stupid ideas. It was meant metaphorically and the use of the box metaphor was because Locke worked in the box factory and Ben thought Locke would understand it.

Killaqueen!!! · 24-04-2007 08:11PM

Thought it was a decent episode - nowhere near as good as the last few episodes but the pointless bits in Desmonds flashback were saved by the Jack/Juliet/Kate/Sawyer love square thing.

As mentioned, Sawyers one liners were fantastic. But the other comedy was great - loved Jin's horror story (surprised that hasn't been mentioned) and Charlie and Hurley arguing about Superman. Sawyer and Jack playing table tennis was great ("We have to play every 108 minutes..."

), but I didn't like Kate's flirting with Jack and then going off and fucking Sawyer. I like Kate but Sawyer doesn't deserve it. It was kinda sad when Sawyer told her that she could use him if she'd only ask.

The sex scene was cur a bit too short. Didn't get a decent body shot of Sawyer...only Kate kissing his nipples!

I liked the whole camping thing before they even found the wire. If only they were walking up a railway track and not the beach, then it would be like Stand By Me...kinda...not really...they were whistling though!

Presumably, the pilot they found (obviously not going to be Penny! Also obvious that Des would save Charlie in the end!) was on the same helicopter as Penny but...I don't see how they're going to be saved now if they've crashed as well. It's also been raised that they can't make a full journey on a helicpoter so it'll be interesting to find out whats going on...

I was so proud of myself that I noticed the picture but obviously no one needs to be told about that! I must admit I didn't think the first comment would be about it but i knew someone would notice it sooner or later. I only had to watch it once and I caught it - didn't need any screen shots or anything! Boo yeah!

EDIT: Oh yeah...gave it a 7/10 cos it was good but not great. I was going to give it a 6 because most of the flashback wasn't great (though I did love Des getting pissed on wine, which they only sent out 108 crates of!) BUT Sawyer deserves a whole extra point for being in a good mood with Jack, being cute with Kate, being funny as usual and being very very sexy (as usual!)!!! I want to marry Sawyer....!

Star Lord · 24-04-2007 08:42PM

6

Killaqueen you just made me think... who said there was only one person that bailed out of the helicopter!

Penny could have parachuted too to somewhere else on the island or landed in the sea...

Killaqueen!!! · 24-04-2007 08:54PM

ah yeah good point. I thought that but I didn't realise what I was thinking! RANDOM!

It's just confusing with Penny cos how the hell did she find the island ("with enough time and money" I spose), why did she go there in a helicopter, is she on the island too, did Des changing his predictions have anything to do with it, what crashed into the sea before they saw the light flashing in the sky....?

ahhhhh!

ZiabR · 24-04-2007 09:53PM

7

DamoElDiablo wrote:

Killaqueen you just made me think... who said there was only one person that bailed out of the helicopter!

Penny could have parachuted too to somewhere else on the island or landed in the sea...

Yes i really do doubt that the chopper only had one pilot. There was most likely two or more.

Hugh_C · 24-04-2007 11:03PM

7

logik wrote:

Yes i really do doubt that the chopper only had one pilot. There was most likely two or more.

What about range? How far can choppers fly? Where'd it come from? A ship close by? From Hydra Island?

hc

ZiabR · 25-04-2007 12:42AM

7

hughchal wrote:

What about range? How far can choppers fly? Where'd it come from? A ship close by? From Hydra Island?

hc

Aye mate, if you look back through the posts, i have already mentioned distance when compared to air mileage. A chopper could not fly to and from the Island, simply impossible. There is a ship nearby and Penny is most likely on it.

L31mr0d · 25-04-2007 12:56PM

7

logik wrote:

Aye mate, if you look back through the posts, i have already mentioned distance when compared to air mileage. A chopper could not fly to and from the Island, simply impossible. There is a ship nearby and Penny is most likely on it.

clearly you've never seen airwolf...

If penny and the pilot had been flying airwolf they could of feasible been flying at 89,000 ft at a speed of Mach 2... giving more than enough height and momentum to rocket them 2 miles inland from offshore.

I thought it was another solid episode. But like i've said numberous times before, good dialogue will always trump story development in my books. Which is why I loved the X-Files, not for the cancer man conspiracy, but for the conversations between Fox and Scully.

Sawyer is getting better with each episode in my opinion, he's great at pointing out the absurdity of the storylines and seeing life on the island from a 3rd persons perspective. Also, Killaqueen!!!, maybe its a guy thing, but I don't think any guy here would mind Kate "using" them for whatever reason.

Also, I was wondering about the Catch-22 reference myself. Anyone see what page the picture of Desmond and Penny was bookmarking? Might have some easter eggs on it?

ZiabR · 25-04-2007 02:16PM

7

L31mr0d wrote:

clearly you've never seen airwolf...

If penny and the pilot had been flying airwolf they could of feasible been flying at 89,000 ft at a speed of Mach 2... giving more than enough height and momentum to rocket them 2 miles inland from offshore.

I thought it was another solid episode. But like i've said numberous times before, good dialogue will always trump story development in my books. Which is why I loved the X-Files, not for the cancer man conspiracy, but for the conversations between Fox and Scully.

Sawyer is getting better with each episode in my opinion, he's great at pointing out the absurdity of the storylines and seeing life on the island from a 3rd persons perspective. Also, Killaqueen!!!, maybe its a guy thing, but I don't think any guy here would mind Kate "using" them for whatever reason.

Also, I was wondering about the Catch-22 reference myself. Anyone see what page the picture of Desmond and Penny was bookmarking? Might have some easter eggs on it?

Oh man Airwolf is class

, what a show.

I didn't notice the page the book opened on, or what the book was actually called tbh. Might be an idea to find out though.

Star Lord · 25-04-2007 02:34PM

6

It's already been mentioned, it was the portugese version of "Catch 22".

And Killaqueen she found the island because of the EMP when the hatch imploded, the guys in the mountains in Portugal pinpointed it and sent Penny the info

MOH · 25-04-2007 03:44PM

DamoElDiablo wrote:

It's already been mentioned, it was the portugese version of "Catch 22".

And Killaqueen she found the island because of the EMP when the hatch imploded, the guys in the mountains in Portugal pinpointed it and sent Penny the info

The mountains in Portugal? I've been under the impression it was some kind of Antarctic research station/vessel?

ZiabR · 25-04-2007 03:46PM

7

DamoElDiablo wrote:

It's already been mentioned, it was the portugese version of "Catch 22".

And Killaqueen she found the island because of the EMP when the hatch imploded, the guys in the mountains in Portugal pinpointed it and sent Penny the info

Were they not in the middle of the Artic?

MOH · 25-04-2007 03:57PM

MOH wrote:

I've been under the impression it was some kind of Antarctic research station/vessel?

logik wrote:

Were they not in the middle of the Artic?

We'll never agree on anything. We're poles apart

lowdenclear · 25-04-2007 03:58PM

7

Mr.Nice Guy wrote:

By the way, funniest line of the episode by far was this from Sawyer to Jack and Juliet:

"You two arguing over who's your favourite Other?"

LOL! This had to be my favourite line too!

I did think for a minute that the ex-fiancée and her brother were meant to be Irish. Scottish... Irish... sh*t accent, whatever it was meant to be!

ArmaniJeanss · 25-04-2007 04:16PM

6

Re, Naomi, the helicopter girl.
I hope this isn't a spoiler (its pure speculation on my part) but Bond afficionados will remember the helicopter girl called Naomi in the 'The Spy Who Loved Me' played by the beautiful Caroline Munro. Sadly she turns out to a 'baddie' in the employ of the films villian Stromberg.

bottom of this page.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naomi_%28James_Bond%29

ZiabR · 25-04-2007 04:43PM

7

ArmaniJeanss wrote:

Re, Naomi, the helicopter girl.
I hope this isn't a spoiler (its pure speculation on my part) but Bond afficionados will remember the helicopter girl called Naomi in the 'The Spy Who Loved Me' played by the beautiful Caroline Munro. Sadly she turns out to a 'baddie' in the employ of the films villian Stromberg.

bottom of this page.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naomi_%28James_Bond%29

So you think our new crash victim is working for the Others then?

[US/IRL] 3X17 - "Catch 22" [** SPOILERS WITHIN **]

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[US/IRL] 3X17 - "Catch 22" [ SPOILERS WITHIN ]