[US/IRL] 3X17 - "Catch 22" [** SPOILERS WITHIN **]

Basq

- WARNING: THIS THREAD WILL CONTAIN SPOILERS FOR THOSE WHO HAVE NOT YET SEEN "CATCH 22" -

Episode Title: "Catch 22"
Airdate: April 18th 2007

Synopsis (from TV.Com):

Desmond convinces Hurley, Jin, and Charlie to follow him on a trek through the jungle. Flashbacks reveal more of Desmond's Army career. Meanwhile, a despondent Kate turns to Sawyer after seeing Jack and Juliet together.

Next New Episode: 3X18 - "

D.O.C.

" - April 25th 2007

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SPOILER WARNING:

From now on, this thread shall reveal details of the episode mentioned above. If you have not yet seen this episode, please do not move any further down the thread.

This episode shall air on:

• ABC (US) - April 18th 2007
• Sky One (UK/IRL) - April 22nd 2007
• RTÉ2 (UK/IRL) - April 23rd 2007

If you are sure you have seen the episode as mentioned above (on the channels on those original airdates), you can move down further in order to discuss the episode.

Otherwise, YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED - there shall be major plot details of the episode revealed and discussed below with no spoiler tags used!

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Ste.phen

I gotta tell ya, i didn't see that ending coming :-)

Did anyone else notice

Who was in the photo on the head monk's desk? It was a poor photoshop showing the head monk and the woman that was in the jewellery shop in Desmond's previous flashback episode

Attachment is a mild spoiler re: above.

ZiabR

7

Almost have the ep, can't wait

horgan_p

one of the better eps this season

charlie seems to be like kenny in south park

damnyanks

Who is the one at the end? Is that the one he was meant to marry?

It was all so sad

Ste.phen

No, it's some random girl named (according to the credits on Lostpedia) Naomi.
Though she did apparently have the pic of Penny and Desmond, maybe she's working for Penny

Gingervitis

Gave it a nine, woulda been 8 but for kate at the start:eek: nearly spat out my milk!
Decent episode, desmond and sayid are the two best on de island at de mo, and nice to get one or two wtf moments that aren't other related, kind of a look back to season 1.
someone get a screencap of kate!

Washout

best i could do im no image editing expert

Narcissus

8

Great episode. The start was a real shocker. I loved how they let you think it was actually happening and then show that it was Desmond's premonition. Then having Desmond leading Charlie and the others to the parachuter knowing what would happen.

There were lots of good scenes. The first one with Kate and Sawyer was very good. "How about some afternoon delight"

The ending was really good too. Where do they go from there?

Igy wrote:

Though she did apparently have the pic of Penny and Desmond, maybe she's working for Penny

Yep i'd say so too. The book that she had was the portuguese version of Catch 22. The guys who called Penny on the phone in the finale of season 2 were portuguese as well.

PiE

5

Helicopter? Buh? Barring any teleporting weirdness, and assuming the island is in fact in the middle of nowhere... there must be a ship nearby that the helicopter took off from.

Was good but I was a bit disappointed as I was told this ep answered some Q's. But nope, just added more.

abelard

6

'Twas a pretty ok episode I thought.

Start was strong as has been said, good opening scene, and of course the Kate scene. I thought Sawyer was on form again.

Flashbacks didn't do a huge amount for me this time round, but they weren't too bad.

Liked the tension in the build up to the arrow, I kinda thought Des would let Charlie die to be honest. Oh Well.

Another mystery at the end too, well pointed out by someone that she has the Portuguese connexion, so i suppose we can assume she's an agent of Penny. Maybe Peny is nearby, as someone else said a helicopter couldn't travel too far. I wonder what made it crash actually, seems to be too much of a coincidence.

upmeath

6

horgan_p wrote:

one of the better eps this season

charlie seems to be like kenny in south park

LOL... I'm just finished watching it so I'm not going to rate it straight away, I'll have to let it soak in for an hour or two. Thinking 7/8 at the minute. Have to think through what relevance and keys this episode might hold first I suppose!

Sad Professor

I think the shield that surrounds the island and keeps it hidden also prevents planes and helicopters from flying over it. Once they hit the shield they are sucked of power and crash (might explain why the satellite phone was dead). I think Naomi flew the helicopter as close to the island as she could and abandoned it just as it hit the shield, it then crashed into the ocean and she parachuted the rest of the way. A crazy stunt but it would explain why the sub is the only way on or off the island, it goes beneath the shield.

So if Flight 815 was flying over the island it would have crashed anyway but I think Desmond's delay in pressing the button caused it to be pulled to the island and subsequently torn apart by the electromagnetism.

Anyway good ep but like abelard I was disappointed with the flashback, I was so sure it was going to deal with Desmond's time in the army and how he got thrown out for disobeying orders. But I guess they're saving this for later which suggests Desmond will survive into next season.

I liked the ping-pong game with Jack and Sawyer.

And man was Kate was hotter than usual this week or was it just me?

Anima

5

It was pretty decent I thought. A good bit of suspense from the opening scene onwards. Flashback was a bit of a let down but I don't really mind, there was enough on island action to tie it over.

Faith

7

Fairly good episode. I gave it an 8 because it was chock full of comedy moments, such as Sawyer's "Is my damn doorbell busted again?".

Haven't a Clue

6

It was an alright episode. Was hoping for a bit more tbh and I read a couple of spoilers about the parachutist which ruined it on me. Flashbacks were pretty meh and Charlie didn't die.

bytesize

the girl in the flash back is in a tv series i used to watched called hustle. shes english in it btw and is damn hot. ep was ok id give it between a 5 and a 6.

one thing i never understand is, when people give episodes like this an 8 or even a 9. what would you give for an action packed full on suspense like the episdes we used to get in season 1, the finale for example. they are hardly only worth 1 or 2 more.

anyway i wonder where they'll go from here

Royale with Cheese

4

Haven't a Clue wrote:

It was an alright episode. Was hoping for a bit more tbh and I read a couple of spoilers about the parachutist which ruined it on me. Flashbacks were pretty meh and Charlie didn't die.

Aye. Pretty much the only interesting thing about the episode and I knew it already. Will be cutting back on the spoilers from now on.

damnyanks

So the lady from his dream was in the picture with the priest.

The priest arranged for desmond to get in the car with penny.

Des ended up on the island because of penny and her dad

PEnnies dad is a evil looking gooner with millions of pounds if not more, he certainly has "secret society" about him.

Penny knows about the island


what does it all mean!

darrenh

8

more references to religion again and all connected to the historical figure Jacob. would love to know where they are going with it.

good episode

any bets the parachuter dies before she reveals who she is or how she got there!!!

Haven't a Clue

6

It all means that when the Portguese blokes found Des at the end of the last season, they sent this parachutist towards the island and now she's a bit bollixed.

I know that she's linked with the Portuguese ones because that book that he found was Portuguese for Catch 22.

MikeHoncho

5

I gave it a 6. It was a bit meh. Im not one of these people thats obsessed with answers but the 2 main storylines from this ep have been done to death already.

Sawyer was class again "what I got to do? Make you a mix tape?" - great line. I also liked his interaction with Jack. They have been through alot together and despite not seeing eye to eye originally have grown to respect each other. Desmond is still one of my favourites although all this Penny crap is starting to grate a bit. I trust the writers 100% though so lets see what happens.

Arathorn

6

I give it 7 just because it held my interest, who is givin out 10's ?

Haven't a Clue

6

Arathorn wrote:

I give it 7 just because it held my interest, who is givin out 10's ?

:eek:

murfie and rip2roar have some explaining to do...

mewso

7

Well it's not a private poll. You can click on the number and answer the question yourself.

ZiabR

7

Igy wrote:

I gotta tell ya, i didn't see that ending coming :-)

Did anyone else notice

Who was in the photo on the head monk's desk? It was a poor photoshop showing the head monk and the woman that was in the jewellery shop in Desmond's previous flashback episode

Attachment is a mild spoiler re: above.

I gave it an 8. It was an ok ep. We see how Desmond met Penny and why he calls everyonge brother . Do you guys think if Desmond had of let Charile DIE, then it would have been Penny in the tree? A brain teaser for sure. Sawyer/Kate/Jack played a ****ty role just filling in the gaps. Who is the pilot and what is she doing with the Pic of Des and Penny. Was she sent by Penny. That means Penny is close to the Island because there is no way a chopper would have enough fuel on board to make that journey. There has so be a large ship close by with a heli pad.

Nice work on the picture with Des and the monk. It is the woman he meets and she tells him that he will end up on the Island.

A good ep, but not good enough

Haven't a Clue

6

logik wrote:

I gave it an 8. It was an ok ep...It was a good ep, not good enough.

How can you give an episode you say as "not good enough" and "ok" an 8?

Do you guys think if Desmond had of let Charile DIE, then it would have been Penny in the tree? A brain teaser for sure.

Doesn't matter a damn now. It isn't Penny, it's some Portuguese doll who badly needs to go see Jack. You'd wish that on nobody (the Jack part of course).

That means Penny is close to the Island because there is no way a chopper would have enough fuel on board to make that journey. There has so be a large ship close by with a heli pad.

Looks that way alright. Another question would be how the hell did the one get off the plane and parachute onto the island?

anotherlostie

7

Damn that ending! Now we have to wait another week to find out exactly who she is and what she is doing there. I knew this character was coming, as they had promo'd it heavily so it was no surprise. And I thought Locke was going to be back this week too, so that was disappointing.

Isaac was Abraham's son and Jacob was Isaac's son. Interesting quote from Genesis: And the LORD said unto Abram, after that Lot was separated from him, Lift up now thine eyes, and look from the place where thou art northward, and southward, and eastward, and westward: (Gen. 13:14).

The three of them are the Patriarchs of Judaism, and of course one of Jacob's sons was Benjamin. Jacob also fought with his brother Esau; Esau was considered a good hunter while Jacob was considered more spiritually minded.

Now we have a Naomi (Naomi was the mother in law of Ruth - the name of Desmond's fiancee), and of course Aaron was the son of Moses. It's all getting terribly Jewish!

Mrs Hawkings appearance was bizarre, but the photograph looked like an awful photoshop alright! Don't know what the reason for the Scottish ex girlfriend was. The Scotch accents were piss poor too!

The best action apart from the trek was in the camp between the four love rivals, Jack, Juliet, Kate and Sawyer. Is Kate a bit of a tramp? Licking that spoon before handing it to Jack was a bit OTT. Then when he spurns her she jumps on Sawyer.

Overall I think this ep is going to be a big build up for the season finale because the losties will finally learn something about what the world knows, and I hope her arrival throws Ben's plans into disarray, but with Juliet around, who knows?

Oh, and it gets a bonus point for the best Sawyer line yet, asking Jack and Juliet if they were discussing who was their favourite Other - was LMAO!

mr_angry

7

I really enjoyed this episode actually - solid 8 from me. The back-story was mundane enough, but added some nice background information on Desmond, particularly why he refers to everyone as "brother". They kept the suspense of the main storyline pretty well though. The episode was clearly about Desmond being tested. However, he isn't sure whether his test is to keep saving Charlie, or let him die.

I thought there were some particularly good one-liners in the episode, although I've forgotten all of them just now. Its nice to see that the writers are still capable of some snappy dialogue! I think its fairly obvious that Naomi at the end is working for Penelope, and the fact that it was a helicopter does indeed indicate that there must be a mothership (or possibly another land-mass) nearby. I'm pretty sure she blurted out the name "Desmond" before blacking out, indicating that she knew who she was looking for. Lets hope she isn't dead.

One interesting thing is that the old future-seeing woman in the shop told Desmond that "pushing that button is the only truely great thing that you'll ever do". So, now that the button is gone, what's left, and why is he still being tested?

Haven't a Clue

6

mr_angry wrote:

One interesting thing is that the old future-seeing woman in the shop told Desmond that "pushing that button is the only truely great thing that you'll ever do". So, now that the button is gone, what's left, and why is he still being tested?

Maybe the button wasn't the truly great thing that he was meant to do. Could be something like getting them off the island, maybe even stopping Charlie from dying.

ixoy

4

Kinda disappointed with this one as I generally really like Desmond - his flashback here though was a bit dull.

Felt the ending was obvious too - since they clearly lined us up to think it would be Penny then it clearly couldn't be I agree though that it's probably sent out by her and that the barrier caused the crash (if she was in a helicopter, would she have been high enough to parachute and land that far away?)

Still though, hoped for answers here as to how the hell Sawyer can see the future, et cetera.

Oh and did Hurley take the satellite phone? Just because it doesn't appear to work doesn't mean they should dump it. Maybe they could recharge - if only they had a house, or a group of them, with running electricity, water, and sewage treatment to go to! Clearly they don't though! Oh well

Gonna give it a 5. A 5 is "average" as far as I'm concerned as it's halfway between the lowest score and the highest score. Crazy rationale behind my voting but I'm nuts like that..

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

awesome

I give it a π/10

anotherlostie

7

The sat phone looked awful like an I Phone too. I wonder did Steve Jobs do a deal with ABC for some product placement?!! No doubt Sayid will find some batteries somewhere for it...

damnyanks

Actually the iphone would make perfect sense - it's only got 40 minutes battery time so the fact it died when they tried to use it would fit in perfectly to the story line!!!

ZiabR

7

Haven't a Clue wrote:

How can you give an episode you say as "not good enough" and "ok" an 8?

I know mate, i was just comparing it to the previous ep in my eyes. It still was a good ep, but i think i was hoping for more. I built the ep up before i seen it. It still deserves an 8.

kinda lost

6

Very good episode i think ill give it a 7,very funny in parts,loved the part when the 4 lads are walking and wisteling on the beach,O and of course the kate bit was fantastic,I think it gave me my first proper lost arousel.:D

Did anyone notice the woman in the pic on the monks desk looked like the woman from desmonds previous flash back episode (the woman that wouldnt sell him the engadgement ring,im nearly sure its her.

ZiabR

7

kinda lost wrote:

Very good episode i think ill give it a 7,very funny in parts,loved the part when the 4 lads are walking and wisteling on the beach,O and of course the kate bit was fantastic,I think it gave me my first proper lost arousel.:D

Did anyone notice the woman in the pic on the monks desk looked like the woman from desmonds previous flash back episode (the woman that wouldnt sell him the engadgement ring,im nearly sure its her.

It is her mate, read a few of the posts above and you will see the pic and comments in relation to her.

RobertFoster

ixoy wrote:

Still though, hoped for answers here as to how the hell Sawyer can see the future, et cetera.

I must have missed that part, when did Sawyer see the future?

ZiabR

7

Sawyer can see the future?

Dont be at yourself

I wonder the significance of Catch-22. The book is about an airforce base in Italy during WWII, and the main protagonist wants more than anything to go home. The catch is he can only go home if he's crazy, but wanting to go home is a sign he's not crazy.

Demond obviously desperately wants to go home, but what's the catch?

RobertFoster

I took the catch 22 element to be Desmonds choice. Either let Charlie die in order for his vision to come true, or save him and have the vision change. He might now question the fact that if he let Charlie die, would it have been Penny instead of Naomi in that jumpsuit.

Though he might go back on what he thought now. When he and Charlie went off on their own he said something along the lines of things changing because Charlie didn't die, therefore there was no point in looking for the helicopter survivor. But they did find someone, so he might look at his visions differently now, sort of what could potentially happen instead of what will happen.

Hyzepher

Well Des never actually saw Penny in his vision - just the photograph. I think he just assumed it would be her. Why send a woman anyway - surely a man would be a better choice for a rescue etc

rip2roar

9

Actualy. he did see penny in his vision, we saw her. Go to the first part after Charlie dies in the vision. Right after you see the body hanging from the tree you see her crying and looking at desmond with the island scenery in the background.

EDIT: Here is the pic of it

jor el

3

Very middle of the road episode. Apart from finding out the significance of "Brother" the flashbacks were a bit if a waste. It doesn't really matter how Penny and Desmond met, nor that Desmond was previously engaged. We already know that he desperately wants to go back to Penny so I fail to see the importance of anything it that.

The Helicopter crashing in the sea but the parachute ending up 2 miles inland is another bizare/stupid Lost moment.

In the end it was obviously not going to be Penny, especially when they found the parachutist and she had a helmet on with a blacked out visor. Who pilots a helicopter at night wearing a blacked out visor anyway?

Sawyer's one liners are about the only saving grace in this episode. No mention of Juliette's plan or anything, and only a bare glimpse of her in this episode even.

Something about that picture of Penny and Desmond doesn't add up either. In the 'Back in time' episode we see Desmond taking the only copy of it away with him. But we also see the same picture on Penny's bedside locker at the end of season 2. Now this girl has either got another copy of it, or the same one Penny had. It's all rather strange. I'm pretty sure she said Desmond's name before blacking out too so it's safe to assume she's here looking for him and probably at Penny's behest.

Overall a very frustrating episode with more bad than good, 4/10.

Sad Professor

rip2roar wrote:

Actualy. he did see penny in his vision, we saw her. Go to the first part after Charlie dies in the vision. Right after you see the body hanging from the tree you see her crying and looking at desmond with the island scenery in the background.

EDIT: Here is the pic of it

I'm pretty certain that's from an earlier episode.

jor el wrote:

The Helicopter crashing in the sea but the parachute ending up 2 miles inland is another bizare/stupid Lost moment.

Well I assume the helicopter lost power and crashed when it hit the shield that surrounds the island, the pilot (Naomi) jumped and glided using some kind of ram-air parachute the rest of the way.

ZiabR

7

Sad Professor wrote:

Well I assume the helicopter lost power and crashed when it hit the shield that surrounds the island, the pilot (Naomi) jumped and glided using some kind of ram-air parachute the rest of the way.

She was too low when she ejected to glide over 2 miles into the middle of the jungle. Still though, can't wait to see what she has to say.

Miguel_Sanchez

rip2roar wrote:

Actualy. he did see penny in his vision, we saw her. Go to the first part after Charlie dies in the vision. Right after you see the body hanging from the tree you see her crying and looking at desmond with the island scenery in the background.

EDIT: Here is the pic of it

That's not island scenery in the background. I'm not 100% sure but I think that was when Penny and Desmond were talking outside the stadium - a flashback from the start of season 2.

Star Lord

6

logik wrote:

She was too low when she ejected to glide over 2 miles into the middle of the jungle. Still though, can't wait to see what she has to say.

Thats funny, I don't remember seeing what height she ejected at...

And am I the only one thought that the helicopter sounded like it was running out of fuel? Anyone thats ever used a petrol lawnmower will know it makes a similar kind of normal running... laggy running... up and down cycling as it drains the last drops of fuel.

I thought it was a good episode, not great... liked not knowing if Desmond was going to save Charlie or not... I thought the first aid kit was to try to save him AFTER he'd been shot through the throat... ie not changing the vision that much.

I bloody well thought Kate was topless in that shot in her tent!!! :eek: Bloody flesh coloured bra deceiving us like that

damnyanks

Now the real question...

IS penny a bit of a slag ?

She meets some lad, second she finds out he isnt a monk she wants to bed him. Shockin suff, we need a stronger religious theme that 'll sort her out

Star Lord

6

No more so than Kate!

danniemcq

mnah episode coulda been so much better, no mention of the others really after last week, no mention of Desmonds military career (kinda odd ocupation after bein a monk but not unheard of i guess)

the helmet/visor thing she was wearing i've been in a helicopter before and that wasn't needed it looks very like a fighter pilots helmet (oxygen hose) but maybe they just wanted to keep her hidden i dunno

and i doubt she coulda got that far inland from so far out at sea

or maybe there was 2 nah prob not though