[US/IRL] 3X17 - "Catch 22" [ SPOILERS WITHIN ]

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar · 19-04-2007 11:19PM

awesome

I give it a π/10

anotherlostie · 19-04-2007 11:31PM

7

The sat phone looked awful like an I Phone too. I wonder did Steve Jobs do a deal with ABC for some product placement?!! No doubt Sayid will find some batteries somewhere for it...

damnyanks · 20-04-2007 12:01AM

Actually the iphone would make perfect sense - it's only got 40 minutes battery time so the fact it died when they tried to use it would fit in perfectly to the story line!!!

ZiabR · 20-04-2007 12:37AM

7

Haven't a Clue wrote:

How can you give an episode you say as "not good enough" and "ok" an 8?

I know mate, i was just comparing it to the previous ep in my eyes. It still was a good ep, but i think i was hoping for more. I built the ep up before i seen it. It still deserves an 8.

kinda lost · 20-04-2007 09:38AM

6

Very good episode i think ill give it a 7,very funny in parts,loved the part when the 4 lads are walking and wisteling on the beach,O and of course the kate bit was fantastic,I think it gave me my first proper lost arousel.:D

Did anyone notice the woman in the pic on the monks desk looked like the woman from desmonds previous flash back episode (the woman that wouldnt sell him the engadgement ring,im nearly sure its her.

ZiabR · 20-04-2007 10:10AM

7

kinda lost wrote:

Very good episode i think ill give it a 7,very funny in parts,loved the part when the 4 lads are walking and wisteling on the beach,O and of course the kate bit was fantastic,I think it gave me my first proper lost arousel.:D

Did anyone notice the woman in the pic on the monks desk looked like the woman from desmonds previous flash back episode (the woman that wouldnt sell him the engadgement ring,im nearly sure its her.

It is her mate, read a few of the posts above and you will see the pic and comments in relation to her.

RobertFoster · 20-04-2007 12:04PM

ixoy wrote:

Still though, hoped for answers here as to how the hell Sawyer can see the future, et cetera.

I must have missed that part, when did Sawyer see the future?

ZiabR · 20-04-2007 12:10PM

7

Sawyer can see the future?

Dont be at yourself · 20-04-2007 01:08PM

I wonder the significance of Catch-22. The book is about an airforce base in Italy during WWII, and the main protagonist wants more than anything to go home. The catch is he can only go home if he's crazy, but wanting to go home is a sign he's not crazy.

Demond obviously desperately wants to go home, but what's the catch?

RobertFoster · 20-04-2007 01:24PM

I took the catch 22 element to be Desmonds choice. Either let Charlie die in order for his vision to come true, or save him and have the vision change. He might now question the fact that if he let Charlie die, would it have been Penny instead of Naomi in that jumpsuit.

Though he might go back on what he thought now. When he and Charlie went off on their own he said something along the lines of things changing because Charlie didn't die, therefore there was no point in looking for the helicopter survivor. But they did find someone, so he might look at his visions differently now, sort of what could potentially happen instead of what will happen.

Hyzepher · 20-04-2007 01:31PM

Well Des never actually saw Penny in his vision - just the photograph. I think he just assumed it would be her. Why send a woman anyway - surely a man would be a better choice for a rescue etc

rip2roar · 20-04-2007 01:58PM

9

Actualy. he did see penny in his vision, we saw her. Go to the first part after Charlie dies in the vision. Right after you see the body hanging from the tree you see her crying and looking at desmond with the island scenery in the background.

EDIT: Here is the pic of it

jor el · 20-04-2007 01:59PM

3

Very middle of the road episode. Apart from finding out the significance of "Brother" the flashbacks were a bit if a waste. It doesn't really matter how Penny and Desmond met, nor that Desmond was previously engaged. We already know that he desperately wants to go back to Penny so I fail to see the importance of anything it that.

The Helicopter crashing in the sea but the parachute ending up 2 miles inland is another bizare/stupid Lost moment.

In the end it was obviously not going to be Penny, especially when they found the parachutist and she had a helmet on with a blacked out visor. Who pilots a helicopter at night wearing a blacked out visor anyway?

Sawyer's one liners are about the only saving grace in this episode. No mention of Juliette's plan or anything, and only a bare glimpse of her in this episode even.

Something about that picture of Penny and Desmond doesn't add up either. In the 'Back in time' episode we see Desmond taking the only copy of it away with him. But we also see the same picture on Penny's bedside locker at the end of season 2. Now this girl has either got another copy of it, or the same one Penny had. It's all rather strange. I'm pretty sure she said Desmond's name before blacking out too so it's safe to assume she's here looking for him and probably at Penny's behest.

Overall a very frustrating episode with more bad than good, 4/10.

Sad Professor · 20-04-2007 02:13PM

rip2roar wrote:

Actualy. he did see penny in his vision, we saw her. Go to the first part after Charlie dies in the vision. Right after you see the body hanging from the tree you see her crying and looking at desmond with the island scenery in the background.

EDIT: Here is the pic of it

I'm pretty certain that's from an earlier episode.

jor el wrote:

The Helicopter crashing in the sea but the parachute ending up 2 miles inland is another bizare/stupid Lost moment.

Well I assume the helicopter lost power and crashed when it hit the shield that surrounds the island, the pilot (Naomi) jumped and glided using some kind of ram-air parachute the rest of the way.

ZiabR · 20-04-2007 02:23PM

7

Sad Professor wrote:

Well I assume the helicopter lost power and crashed when it hit the shield that surrounds the island, the pilot (Naomi) jumped and glided using some kind of ram-air parachute the rest of the way.

She was too low when she ejected to glide over 2 miles into the middle of the jungle. Still though, can't wait to see what she has to say.

Miguel_Sanchez · 20-04-2007 03:18PM

rip2roar wrote:

Actualy. he did see penny in his vision, we saw her. Go to the first part after Charlie dies in the vision. Right after you see the body hanging from the tree you see her crying and looking at desmond with the island scenery in the background.

EDIT: Here is the pic of it

That's not island scenery in the background. I'm not 100% sure but I think that was when Penny and Desmond were talking outside the stadium - a flashback from the start of season 2.

Star Lord · 20-04-2007 03:24PM

6

logik wrote:

She was too low when she ejected to glide over 2 miles into the middle of the jungle. Still though, can't wait to see what she has to say.

Thats funny, I don't remember seeing what height she ejected at...

And am I the only one thought that the helicopter sounded like it was running out of fuel? Anyone thats ever used a petrol lawnmower will know it makes a similar kind of normal running... laggy running... up and down cycling as it drains the last drops of fuel.

I thought it was a good episode, not great... liked not knowing if Desmond was going to save Charlie or not... I thought the first aid kit was to try to save him AFTER he'd been shot through the throat... ie not changing the vision that much.

I bloody well thought Kate was topless in that shot in her tent!!! :eek: Bloody flesh coloured bra deceiving us like that

damnyanks · 20-04-2007 03:34PM

Now the real question...

IS penny a bit of a slag ?

She meets some lad, second she finds out he isnt a monk she wants to bed him. Shockin suff, we need a stronger religious theme that 'll sort her out

Star Lord · 20-04-2007 03:41PM

6

No more so than Kate!

danniemcq · 20-04-2007 04:03PM

mnah episode coulda been so much better, no mention of the others really after last week, no mention of Desmonds military career (kinda odd ocupation after bein a monk but not unheard of i guess)

the helmet/visor thing she was wearing i've been in a helicopter before and that wasn't needed it looks very like a fighter pilots helmet (oxygen hose) but maybe they just wanted to keep her hidden i dunno

and i doubt she coulda got that far inland from so far out at sea

or maybe there was 2 nah prob not though

Miguel_Sanchez · 20-04-2007 04:07PM

danniemcq wrote:

mnah episode coulda been so much better, no mention of the others really after last week, no mention of Desmonds military career (kinda odd ocupation after bein a monk but not unheard of i guess)

the helmet/visor thing she was wearing i've been in a helicopter before and that wasn't needed it looks very like a fighter pilots helmet (oxygen hose) but maybe they just wanted to keep her hidden i dunno

and i doubt she coulda got that far inland from so far out at sea

or maybe there was 2 nah prob not though

Maybe she was over the island and the helicopter was running out of fuel so she jumped. In the dark she wouldn't have been able to see anywhere to even attempt a landing so she probably thought it was a better bet parachuting in.

pduffy50 · 20-04-2007 04:17PM

7

danniemcq wrote:

the helmet/visor thing she was wearing i've been in a helicopter before and that wasn't needed it looks very like a fighter pilots helmet (oxygen hose) but maybe they just wanted to keep her hidden i dunno

Good point, its a fighter pilots helmet, helicopter pilots don't were these type of helmets.

jor el · 20-04-2007 04:25PM

3

DamoElDiablo wrote:

And am I the only one thought that the helicopter sounded like it was running out of fuel?

Sounded like that alright didn't it. Seemed to be loosing power just after they first heard it. Charlie or Hurley asked if that's what a helicopter is supposed to sound like. Desmond answered "no" then they hear it crash into the ocean. After that they see a beacon and see the parachute come down in the forest behind them. Just seemed an awful long way for a chute to drift. It's lazy writing as far as I can see. They could just have easily had the helicopter coming over the island from behind the beach and the pilot bailing out before it crossed the beach. Would have explained it far better.

liked not knowing if Desmond was going to save Charlie or not...

I really thought he would let Charlie die right up until he pushed him to the ground. Kinda hoping he would let it happen too, but no.

I bloody well thought Kate was topless in that shot in her tent!!! :eek: Bloody flesh coloured bra deceiving us like that

Ditto, nearly jumped out of the chair. And she wasn't shy about letting Sawyer have a good old gawk either.

damnyanks wrote:

IS penny a bit of a slag ?

Yup, the dirty hussy. A bit of competition for Kate if she turns up on the island too. Wouldn't mind seeing a mud wrestling match round two there :eek: Maybe throw Juliette into the mix too!

Hyzepher · 20-04-2007 04:32PM

There is no way of knowing when the pilot jumped from the Helicopter - she may have jumped a few minutes before it hit the water. Just because they saw the beacon after teh crash doesn't mean she jumped close to crashing. We also assume that she was the only person on the helicopter

requiem1 · 20-04-2007 05:50PM

i'm really curious as to how the pilot died cause if she had a parachute and it got caught up in the tree then what happened to her? actually did she die or am i just reading that wrong?
Also you couldn't really see the helicopter and one of the boards on the fuselage said that the black smoke sometimes sounded like a helicopter? maybe the splash was the black smoke and maybe the others are putting the thoughts in desmonds head....

jArgHA · 20-04-2007 06:19PM

5

A minor point but...

anotherlostie wrote:

Mrs Hawkings appearance was bizarre, but the photograph looked like an awful photoshop alright!

I reckon that the photo on the monks desk is not a photoshop, but a similar photo to the one which Desmond had taken with Penny (which features in this and a previous episode) - they were standing in front of a backdrop hence the odd lighting in the shot.

The head monk may actually have some significance, I am sure we will see him again as there is no way that they would throw in the photo without showing us the circumstances in which Mrs Hawkings and the monk knew eachother.

ZiabR · 20-04-2007 06:36PM

7

You reckon the Monk was involved also? I mean maybe he was told to fire Des to MAKE Des move on and follow the path which would eventually lead him to the Island.

eirebhoy · 20-04-2007 07:01PM

"We dated for 6 years and the closest you ever came to a religious experience was Celtic winning the cup"

Desmond also sings a Celtic song in this episode and you'd probably have to be a football supporter to have any idea what it was:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l71oIIypgbM

Narcissus · 20-04-2007 08:46PM

8

RobertFoster wrote:

I took the catch 22 element to be Desmonds choice. Either let Charlie die in order for his vision to come true, or save him and have the vision change. He might now question the fact that if he let Charlie die, would it have been Penny instead of Naomi in that jumpsuit.

I thought that too. Another interesting thing that I found on Lostpedia:

A "Catch-22" refers to a no-win situation or a double bind. The literary sense is a situation in which two situations depend on each other to occur. In this episode it refers to the predestination paradox — Desmond only goes on the mission because he sees flashes of him doing so. But the flashes wouldn't have occurred unless he had gone on the mission. So where did the flashes come from?

I think the photo of the monk and Mrs Hawking is a photoshop. The lighting on him is noticeably different.

Sinfonia · 20-04-2007 08:47PM

logik wrote:

You reckon the Monk was involved also? I mean maybe he was told to fire Des to MAKE Des move on and follow the path which would eventually lead him to the Island.

Hmmm, maybe when he said "God has greater plans for you" (or whatever it was), it wasn't just religious sh!te-talk, maybe he knew, like Mrs Hawkings did.

Or, maybe it was just a pointless easter egg to get our theory juices flowing

[US/IRL] 3X17 - "Catch 22" [** SPOILERS WITHIN **]

Comments

[US/IRL] 3X17 - "Catch 22" [ SPOILERS WITHIN ]