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What to do? Parents don't know about BF

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Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,836 ✭✭✭BigCon


    I think the key questions here are:
    (1) how important is her faith to her
    (2) how important is respecting her parents wishes is to her.

    IMO, if she considers her love for her bf stronger than both, then she should carry on and feck the the lot of them.
    If on the other hand, she wants to adhere to her religion or parents (or both), then she needs to tell them with the likely outcome of her having to end the relationship.
    The answer seems obvious to me, but then I don't consider my religion as something that must dictate how I live my life...


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 12 Bogey


    I read.

    And didn't see Twiggy appear to explain whether or not she was muslim and BF was RC, or if this was even the central issue. All I know is she identifies him as "an Irish man," oddly (on an Irish discussion board) that this might be a "minus." Maybe he's toothless? Maybe he's 30 years older? Maybe he's 50 and still lives with his mother?

    I refuse to answer until Twiggy appears to explain herself.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 19,777 ✭✭✭✭The Corinthian


    Twigy wrote:
    I have been going out with an irish man for almost a year and a half now. We want to get married. Problem is....i haven't told my parents yet. They don't even know i ever had a boyfriend and are sure to over react if they find out. I would like to tell my mum about him(she will be more understanding hopefully). Not sure how to approach it! Have any of you been in a similar situation? Is it too soon to tell her? What should i say? Confused:(
    I’ve seen similar situations in the past. Your problem should be looked at in two ways, firstly is the difference in religion and secondly is the difference in culture. I separate the two because it is probably the latter that is causing most of your problems in reality. Bosnian and Albanian Muslims have been happily mixing and intermarrying with Christians for centuries after all.

    How Islam is interpreted is often down to regional considerations (or more recently, how much the Saudi government is funding western mosques) and this means that there is a fair bit of variation on what is acceptable or not between the different schools of Islamic law.

    With regard to him being a boyfriend, and this is all you’re asking, I suggest you let the matter rest and simply keep it from your family. You gain nothing from telling them other than conflict and if you eventually break up with him then they’ll not be any the wiser.

    If you’re considering marriage (which I don’t think you ever suggested here), then things become more complicated.

    I do think that while his conversion might seemingly solve things, it’s a poor solution. To begin with conversion for such reasons is hardly genuine and secondly I really don’t see why it has been assumed here that it’s up to the Christian to convert.

    Why the Hell should he be an apostate?

    More practically, I would consult an imam prior to telling your parents in that situation. Preferably from the Hanafi school, but importantly, the more liberal the better. You’ll need all the religious and legal ammunition you can get for when you go to them as this will both counter their own religious arguments and give them an acceptable ‘out’ where they can accept your fiancé.

    Ultimately, however, the gap may be too wide to bridge. This, as I’ve said, is not really down to religion, but culture. In that situation you may need to decide if you are willing to lose your family (although in time - and grandchildren - they may come to accept your choice) or lose your love.
    the_new_mr wrote:
    Before I end this post, just wanted to make sure that people know that "honour killings" are un-Islamic.
    It’s cultural. Honour killings existed in Europe too not so long ago. In France and Italy we had ‘crimes of honour’ or ‘crimes of passion’ on the statute books up until recently (I recommend watching the Mastroianni comedy Divorzio all'italiana with regard to this). Even today, you still seem to get about one crime of this nature in southern Italy every month.

    Having said that, it certainly does seem to be condoned by imam’s in some places where it’s practiced, so you can’t really wash your hands of it if they do not agree with your interpretation of it being un-Islamic.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 47 Twigy


    All of you are listing out the facts i have gone through over and over in my head. My boyfriend has done a lot of research on islam and he is thinking about converting. Only because my parents said that there is no way i am marrying a non muslim. Having said that,my mum also said it might be ok if i can get him to convert. She will get used to the idea quicker than my dad will. He is the main problem. The problem with telling my mum now is she wont let me see him until we are ready to get married,because she doesn't want "anything" to happen. And we are not ready to get married just yet. More a financial issue than anything else. I am going to tell her,i just want to figure out when it is the right time to do that? They will get used to it after a while,they are not cruel by any means. But i dont want to give up the little time that i do get to spend with him! My parents are strict in the going out ever department. I almost never go out at night, and when i go out during the day (rarely) they have to know who im with and where we are going. Im 21!! But im used to it,i have my own ways around their rules:p anyway more advice on the issue at hand please if you all have some left in you.
    Thanks.


  • Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 42,362 Mod ✭✭✭✭Beruthiel


    If they are going to stop you seeing him, then I would say nothing until you plan to get married.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 47 Twigy


    BigCon wrote:
    I think the key questions here are:
    (1) how important is her faith to her
    (2) how important is respecting her parents wishes is to her.

    I respect my parents a lot and i would never do anything to hurt them. I would not marry him if i really thought my parents would be hurt by it. They will need to be convinced that their only daughter isn't throwing the rest of her life away and that is the hard part! My religion is also very important to me. But i dont think marrying him will make me any less muslim.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 47 Twigy


    I dont like all this sneaking around,thats all. I mean its a big part of my life and i want them to know and understand that> maybe its too much to ask


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 47 Twigy


    Bogey wrote:
    I read.

    And didn't see Twiggy appear to explain whether or not she was muslim and BF was RC, or if this was even the central issue. All I know is she identifies him as "an Irish man," oddly (on an Irish discussion board) that this might be a "minus." Maybe he's toothless? Maybe he's 30 years older? Maybe he's 50 and still lives with his mother?

    I refuse to answer until Twiggy appears to explain herself.

    My boyfriend is irish,he is 23 and he is not a muslim or a catholic,he is just spiritual.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 19,777 ✭✭✭✭The Corinthian


    Twigy wrote:
    Only because my parents said that there is no way i am marrying a non muslim. Having said that,my mum also said it might be ok if i can get him to convert. She will get used to the idea quicker than my dad will. He is the main problem.
    Are you saying that his nationality rather than faith is an issue also? If so, that’s not a religious objection, that’s a racist one.
    My parents are strict in the going out ever department. I almost never go out at night, and when i go out during the day (rarely) they have to know who im with and where we are going. Im 21!! But im used to it,i have my own ways around their rules:p
    You live under their roof. As long as you do you must abide by their rules, or at best circumvent them.
    I respect my parents a lot and i would never do anything to hurt them. I would not marry him if i really thought my parents would be hurt by it. They will need to be convinced that their only daughter isn't throwing the rest of her life away and that is the hard part! My religion is also very important to me. But i dont think marrying him will make me any less muslim.
    You may not be able to have your cake and eat it, I’m afraid.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 47 Twigy


    Thats just it though! I know that they wont be hurt,otherwise i wouldn do it. They are not racist, they dont care where the guy is from,as long as he is not a muslim(convert or otherwise) they will not let me get married to him.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 43,045 ✭✭✭✭Nevyn


    Yes there is the fact that a strict muslim family will not want thier daughters dating non muslim men for the frea that she be corrupted/spoiled.

    Twigy end of the day you may well have to choose been your husband to be
    with whom you are planing to spend the rest of your life and to creat a new family with when you marry him and your family.

    I am not saying this will be easy but that is the worst case senario.
    Bening an adult you can choose who you marry and legally no one can stop you if you are both adults and free to marry.

    You have to look to your furture and your happiness.
    If you are strong enough to go ahead and do what getting married means that
    if forsaking all others for your spouse and that in your case may mean family as well.

    It is not something to be rushed into but you have to look at it and decided.
    It could well be that after you have gotten married your parents will come arround, it may take a few years and I know people that it didnt' happen
    until there were grandchildren.

    If the person you loved and wanted to marry ment you moving to the other side of the world to be with them and live your life together then you would
    have very little contact with your family then.

    I would not look for permission to marry you don't NEED it from them,
    their blessing would be nice and them to share in your happiness but it could take time.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 19,777 ✭✭✭✭The Corinthian


    Twigy wrote:
    Thats just it though! I know that they wont be hurt,otherwise i wouldn do it. They are not racist, they dont care where the guy is from,as long as he is not a muslim(convert or otherwise) they will not let me get married to him.
    If they don’t care where the guy is from, as long as he is a Muslim, for you to marry him, then I’d agree. However you seem to be indicating that your father would still have issues with this regardless - that would indicate that there is another prejudice at play, most likely racism.

    From what I can see you have two principle courses of action; you can do it ‘by the book’, in which case he’ll convert and you’ll have very limited contact with him until you marry or you can elope and hope that your family will come to terms with it, given time and grandchildren. While there are things you might be able to do to help the situation, I don’t think you’ve much latitude beyond these two choices.

    I’d be curious to know how his family would feel with his apostasy. I can’t imagine they would be too happy. So he certainly seems to be willing to make a few more sacrifices that you, at present.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,376 ✭✭✭metrovelvet


    Why would they need him to convert? What makes an interfaith marriage unacceptible to them?


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,183 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    Why should he convert?
    I agree he shouldn't have to. I know I wouldn't. It's not exactly a faith you can just leave at least publicly, as apostacy is considered a serious nay capital crime by all too many Muslims, again with backing from scripture(some are trying to buck that idea and fair play and good luck to them). I'm just making the point that in this religious/cultural case, he will have to, if they ever hope to keep contact with her family and community.
    firstly is the difference in religion and secondly is the difference in culture. I separate the two because it is probably the latter that is causing most of your problems in reality. Bosnian and Albanian Muslims have been happily mixing and intermarrying with Christians for centuries after all.
    Very true. It would be hoped this idea gains greater currency. The problem is that it's a cultural tradition with a very clear religious source. The marriage laws are pretty clear in Islam.
    How Islam is interpreted is often down to regional considerations (or more recently, how much the Saudi government is funding western mosques) and this means that there is a fair bit of variation on what is acceptable or not between the different schools of Islamic law.
    Agreed. The Saudi "version" seems to be the one at large here though and I fear little may be gained by quoting other sources. Worth a try though.

    http://islam.about.com/blinterfaith.htm Apparently this view of Islam considers the man the "head of the house", so that would mean a non Muslim man would be in "authority" of a muslim woman. A non starter it seems. http://islam.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?site=http://www.jannah.org/sisters/intermarriage.html
    Check out the section that deals with this very topic. Here's another; http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/Satellite?cid=1119503545634&pagename=IslamOnline-English-Ask_Scholar%2FFatwaE%2FFatwaEAskTheScholar
    That's just a quick google. If anyone can find a contrary view maybe that would help. The only ray of hope I found was on http://islamlib.com/en/page.php?page=article&id=448 A liberal Islam site. That said while it has an interfaith marriage(with a "pagan" woman at that), the man is the Muslim. So "authority" in the household is maintained.
    Why would they need him to convert? What makes an interfaith marriage unacceptible to them?
    Because Islam doesn't allow Muslim women to marry non Muslim men(regardless of denomination). It's pretty clear on the matter. It's in the Quran plain and simple. If it was in hadeeth, then there would be slightly more leverage, especially in Quran only Muslims.
    Twigy wrote:
    But i dont think marrying him will make me any less muslim.
    I personally don't think it would or should, but the trick is convincing your parents of this. I honestly don't know how, if they are anyway strict.

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 842 ✭✭✭the_new_mr


    Well Twigy, I honestly think you should tell your mother at the first opportunity really. Deception is bad enough really and deception to parents is worse. Also, if they find out some other way then you'll find yourself in an infinitely more difficult position than now.

    I'm glad to hear that your friend is reading about Islam and is thinking about converting. Still, conversion just for marriage is no kind of conversion at all really if ya catch my drift?

    And The Corinthian, I think you've misunderstood Twigy a little. When her father says that he doesn't want her marrying a person of non-Muslim origin even if he converts, it's not down to racism at all. I believe that it's down to the fact that her father is afraid that the man will say that he converted to Islam just so that he can marry his daughter but really doesn't believe Islam is his religion and doesn't practice it. A distant family member of mine was in the same situation Twigy is in now over in Canada. Unfortunately, the marriage turned sour and, after the divorce, the man threw the Quran in his father-in-law's face and said something along the lines of "You can have this back because it never meant anything to me"

    Now, having said that, that doesn't mean it's okay to say "NO!" to converts. Some of the best Muslims I know are converts and that's a fact. I guess my relative had the typical case of love being blind. It's up to Twigy if she's convinced or not by his conversion.

    So Twigy, maybe you can choose a time when she's in an apparent good mood and has some time on her hands and try to break it to her as gently as possible. Expect a bad reaction and, whatever you do, don't lose your cool if/when she looses her's.

    I would highly highly highly recommend AGAINST eloping or something to that effect. I know how the heart can feel but try to use your mind as well as your heart Twigy. I know from experience that it's not always easy. Remember, your happiness in your life will most certainly include the state of your relationship with your parents.

    Did you get my PMs by the way?

    I pray that, God willing, everything works out the way you want it and that your friend is guided to Islam.

    And I know what I'm about to say isn't want you want to read but sometimes a friend has to say what you need to hear and not just want you want to hear and I consider you my sister. The marriage idea may not work out and you may end up with a broken heart for a little while but you'll get over it God willing (and I'm talking from experience here again).

    Anyway, I hope that it works out for the best and may God guide your decision.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 19,777 ✭✭✭✭The Corinthian


    the_new_mr wrote:
    And The Corinthian, I think you've misunderstood Twigy a little. When her father says that he doesn't want her marrying a person of non-Muslim origin even if he converts, it's not down to racism at all. I believe that it's down to the fact that her father is afraid that the man will say that he converted to Islam just so that he can marry his daughter but really doesn't believe Islam is his religion and doesn't practice it. A distant family member of mine was in the same situation Twigy is in now over in Canada. Unfortunately, the marriage turned sour and, after the divorce, the man threw the Quran in his father-in-law's face and said something along the lines of "You can have this back because it never meant anything to me"
    Fair enough, I see your logic - it is a possibility. However racism is not that uncommon a motivator either in these cases.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,585 ✭✭✭HelterSkelter


    Twigy wrote:
    But i dont think marrying him will make me any less muslim.

    Have you thought about what will happen if you have children? Will they be Muslim? Will your bf object to this? If he agrees to raise them as Muslim how will he act as they get older as regards setting an example for them (e.g. will he drink alcohol, will he take them to the Mosque, will he pray on front of them, etc etc). I think this could cause you many problems.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 47 Twigy


    Have you thought about what will happen if you have children? Will they be Muslim? Will your bf object to this? If he agrees to raise them as Muslim how will he act as they get older as regards setting an example for them (e.g. will he drink alcohol, will he take them to the Mosque, will he pray on front of them, etc etc). I think this could cause you many problems.


    I think that is part of the reason my parents do not wnat me to marry a non muslim. Married life is hard enough without adding to it by bringing in issues about faith. However we both believe in god and we will raise out children up to believe in god. It will be up to them later on in life to choose for themselves the faith they wish to follow.


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