Neo Feminism

wheres me jumpa · 26-05-2006 5:47pm #1

Heard this on Dave Fanning the other night and was suprised with the response. Basically they were discussing the ditzy women such as Jade Goody, Chantelle etc who are millionaires. The point was made that it was women who were making them millionaires by buying mags and such for a glimpse of their lives.

The conversation then suggested that the women of today are no longer the powerful, independant individuals they thought they were.

Now im not starting a women vs men thread, Im curious to know what the women out there actually think of complete morons such as Jade. We all hate these people but yet someone is interested in them as they sell mags.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 26-05-2006 6:03pm

All part of the dumbing down process, if you ask me... Give the public what it wants.

seamus · 26-05-2006 6:05pm

Women who aren't interested in the lives of Jade, Chantelle, Jordan and the other plethora of idiots out there, are very much in the minority. Women want to be famous, it's really that simple. Since they can't be, they're happy to live vicariously through those who are.

metrovelvet · 26-05-2006 6:05pm

When you refer to "women of today" do you mean English and Irish women, or all women from all over the world?

peckerhead · 26-05-2006 6:06pm

Ikky Poo2 wrote:

All part of the dumbing down process, if you ask me... Give the public what it wants.

'Bread and circuses' were always just as popular with the womenfolk, as any good herstorian will tell you...:rolleyes:

26-05-2006 6:09pm

Who are Jade Goody and Chantelle?

metrovelvet · 26-05-2006 6:10pm

I dont know who they are either.

casanova_kid · 26-05-2006 6:12pm

The ideal woman is quiet reserved, only speaks when she is spoken to, and gets on with her job in the kitchen dilligently.

Earthhorse · 26-05-2006 6:20pm

Jade Goody and Chantelle are "celebrities" famous for appearing on Big Brother.

I find it hard to believe either of them are millionaires or admired by the majority of women.

Merrick · 26-05-2006 6:20pm

wheres me jumpa wrote:

Im curious to know what the women out there actually think of complete morons such as Jade.

I think that they are just that: morons.
They don't really deserve any of their fame or money, but then again it is our fault that they're still here because we, the public, keep buying those ridiculous magazines.
<grrr...insert more rant here>

26-05-2006 6:24pm

Earthhorse wrote:

Jade Goody and Chantelle are "celebrities" famous for appearing on Big Brother.

I find it hard to believe either of them are millionaires or admired by the majority of women.

That stupid show :mad: I can't believe that crap is still going on
pathetic

Dudess · 26-05-2006 6:30pm

seamus wrote:

Women who aren't interested in the lives of Jade, Chantelle, Jordan and the other plethora of idiots out there, are very much in the minority.

Sad but true. I'm sick of so many of my fellow females being obsessed with celebrity crap. When I want to talk to people about good music, film, literature etc, I usually turn to the male of the species. I live with four girls and I can't stand it. Every evening the TV is hijacked by soaps and reality TV. I want to move in with lads.

seamus wrote:

Women want to be famous, it's really that simple. Since they can't be, they're happy to live vicariously through those who are.

Not all women. And I'm sure plenty of lads want to be famous. There are those who want to be famous for something decent too. They're not all Jade wannabes.

Seraphina · 26-05-2006 7:40pm

people like that make me ashamed of my gender

peckerhead · 26-05-2006 7:53pm

peckerhead wrote:

'Bread and circuses' were always just as popular with the womenfolk, as any good herstorian will tell you...:rolleyes:

So can I quote you on that, seraphina? (just in arguments with my wife, promise..!)

wheres me jumpa · 26-05-2006 8:15pm

Seraphina wrote:

people like that make me ashamed of my gender

Thats something of a relief. Kerry Katona was another who was mentioned. She has this image as the poor mother left to mind the kids. Apparently younger people look up to this person as a good mother. Seems to me shes too busy sticking her tongue out to be a role model.

It bugs me that people like this are famous for nothing. Why the hell do they sell mags?

ferdi · 26-05-2006 8:18pm

wheres me jumpa wrote:

Why the hell do they sell mags?

who buys the mags? - the mob.

who are the mob? - The mob is Rome.

watch gladiator, its all in there.

simu · 26-05-2006 8:23pm

Meh, entertainment for the dumb masses. A lot of men fall for that shíte too - look at the success of soccer, for example.

rainbow kirby · 26-05-2006 8:27pm

Seraphina wrote:

people like that make me ashamed of my gender

word.
Celebrity stuff just drives me nuts. It's so silly, yet people care so much about it!

wheres me jumpa · 26-05-2006 8:28pm

simu wrote:

Meh, entertainment for the dumb masses. A lot of men fall for that shíte too - look at the success of soccer, for example.

Sport is loved by men and women. Sports men and women are extremely talented individuals. The people in question have no talent, no brains or nothing to offer the world.

WhiteWashMan · 26-05-2006 8:34pm

could be an interesting discussion.....

simu · 26-05-2006 8:34pm

wheres me jumpa wrote:

Sport is loved by men and women. Sports men and women are extremely talented individuals. The people in question have no talent, no brains or nothing to offer the world.

Look, spectator sport is basically entertainment. Sports people have a talent for what they do but it doesn't really do anything in terms of understanding the human experience or advancing scientific knowledge or anything. Muppets on reality TV shows have a "talent" for entertaining people (although I personally don't get it).

Sure, soccer etc have been around a lot longer but ultimately, is the ability of a person to get a ball to go between two goalposts any more impressive than the ability of another person to act like a clown on TV?

simu · 26-05-2006 8:35pm

WhiteWashMan wrote:

could be an interesting discussion.....

Yip.

nesf · 26-05-2006 8:39pm

simu wrote:

Sure, soccer etc have been around a lot longer but ultimately, is the ability of a person to get a ball to go between two goalposts any more impressive than the ability of another person to act like a clown on TV?

Is a person training so that they break an olympic record in the 100m/whatever more impressive?

simu · 26-05-2006 8:40pm

nesf wrote:

Is a person training so that they break an olympic record in the 100m/whatever more impressive?

No.

nesf · 26-05-2006 8:41pm

simu wrote:

No.

Ah. See I think you are totally wrong since there is more to life than knowledge.

simu · 26-05-2006 8:43pm

nesf wrote:

Ah. See I think you are totally wrong since there is more to life than knowledge.

It's all entertainment. Not that there's anything wrong with entertainment.

wheres me jumpa · 26-05-2006 8:45pm

simu wrote:

Look, spectator sport is basically entertainment. Sports people have a talent for what they do but it doesn't really do anything in terms of understanding the human experience or advancing scientific knowledge or anything. Muppets on reality TV shows have a "talent" for entertaining people (although I personally don't get it).

Sure, soccer etc have been around a lot longer but ultimately, is the ability of a person to get a ball to go between two goalposts any more impressive than the ability of another person to act like a clown on TV?

I accept your point but I disagree. I think the real focus of this is that men have always watched sport, its expected of them. Women have historically been in the shade of men. And after a lifetime of disrespect they are now on a par. Is this latest craze a set back? Young women growing up aspiring to be like these morons. Young women seeing this the route to success. Yes it is a route to success but not a respectable route.

nesf · 26-05-2006 8:45pm

simu wrote:

It's all entertainment. Not that there's anything wrong with entertainment.

Ah but you equate it with entertainment "for the dumb masses" thus giving it negative connotations. So, in essence, you are saying there are things wrong with some kinds of entertainment.

dragonkin · 26-05-2006 8:49pm

Well I agree to a certain amount that sport can be viewed as mindless entertainment however it is important to realise that at a deeper level sport is about being the best you can be, throwing everything you having into achieving your true potential and enjoying life.

There is something great about watching people play for the sheer love of it.

I don't agree with the professional era tho. I think it makes a mockery about all that is good with sport that applies to both Football and (less so) Rugby. I just hope the GAA can stand their ground.

simu · 26-05-2006 8:50pm

wheres me jumpa wrote:

I accept your point but I disagree. I think the real focus of this is that men have always watched sport, its expected of them. Women have historically been in the shade of men. And after a lifetime of disrespect they are now on a par. Is this latest craze a set back? Young women growing up aspiring to be like these morons. Young women seeing this the route to success. Yes it is a route to success but not a respectable route.

Uh, I don't see hoardes of women dropping out of school or whatever to go on reality TV. For most, watching that stuff is harmless fantasy.

nesf wrote:

Ah but you equate it with entertainment "for the dumb masses" thus giving it negative connotations. So, in essence, you are saying there are things wrong with some kinds of entertainment.

Nah, I'm just saying it doesn't require major intellectual strain on the part of the viewer. I just find it odd that the OP would get so annoyed about one form of brain-dead entertainment when there are so many out there.

quickbeam · 26-05-2006 8:51pm

wheres me jumpa wrote:

Im curious to know what the women out there actually think of complete morons such as Jade. We all hate these people but yet someone is interested in them as they sell mags.

I don't think Jade and Chantelle are complete morons. I think fair play to them for finding a niche and making their money on it. They obviously has something which appeals.

I think the people who are morons are the people buying this sh!t.

It's like all these celebrities complaining about paparazzi invading their private lives. But paparazzi are only supplying a demand because people - the public - want to see celebrities out jogging or walking their kids or other mundane stuff that anybody in their right mind wouldn't give a toss about.

nesf · 26-05-2006 8:55pm

quickbeam wrote:

I don't think Jade and Chantelle are complete morons. I think fair play to them for finding a niche and making their money on it.

I'd be more inclined to credit whoever it is who manages and guides them tbh.

Bottle_of_Smoke · 26-05-2006 9:17pm

I think it might be genetic - gossip is just something women of all ages have a greater interest than men.

Maybe it was once advantageous to survival, women who enjoyed knowing everything about everyone else might have been more likely to find a mate successfully to breed with. Hence us.

I don't see it as a setback for women - all the women interested in that crap are usually just pointless entities that don't stand for real women. They'd just be obsessed with soaps if there were no jades etc.

wheres me jumpa · 26-05-2006 9:28pm

simu wrote:

Nah, I'm just saying it doesn't require major intellectual strain on the part of the viewer. I just find it odd that the OP would get so annoyed about one form of brain-dead entertainment when there are so many out there.

Simu Im not looking for an argument. IMHO sportsmen and women are talented people who work hard to get where they are.

DOLEMAN · 26-05-2006 9:38pm

GENERALLY women want attention and nice clothes/jewellery/etc.

Retards like Jade have all this. That is why women (kind of) admire her.

There is nothing wrong with this. It's just the way women are.

GENERALLY men want women and power.

Retards like Hugh Hefner have all this. That is why men (kind of) admire him.

There is nothing wrong with this. It's just the way men are.

...

I hate the way feminists want to be men. There is nothing wrong with having female "weaknesses". You don't have to compete with men at everything. I'm never going to try to breast feed my kid. It's OK.

/:D

AngryAnderson · 26-05-2006 9:42pm

wheres me jumpa wrote:

Sport is loved by men and women. Sports men and women are extremely talented individuals. The people in question have no talent, no brains or nothing to offer the world.

Have to say I kind of agree with men and football... but for different reasons. I can understand people from London supporting Chelsea or Arsenal. I can understand people from Manchester supporting Manchester; or people from Liverpool supporting Liverpool. It does amaze me though how so many Irish people support teams like Manchester, Liverpool and Arsenal. What's the connection? Why would you 'support' a brand that has virtually no connection to you? Why support a team in another country? Why not support Coca-Cola or McDonalds? Why not support HMV? That's really all big football teams are... a brand aimed at emptying suckers wallets. Never mind that most of the people playing for these teams aren't even Manchester/Liverpool/etc. incumbants.

Back on topic - yes, men or women who discuss Big Brother, Jade Goody, Brian McFadden, etc. and buy the magazines where they sell 'incredible stories' about their vapid lives... are dummys.

therannu · 26-05-2006 9:46pm

Bottle_of_Smoke wrote:

I think it might be genetical.

It's certainly not genetic (if you must try to be scientific about your prejudices, at least use the correct word).

Perceived differences between male and female modes of behaviour are down to social conditioning rather than X and Y chromosomes.

Bottle_of_Smoke · 26-05-2006 9:50pm

therannu wrote:

It's certainly not genetic (if you must try to be scientific about your prejudices, at least use the correct word).

Perceived differences between male and female modes of behaviour are down to social conditioning rather than X and Y chromosomes.

Cheers for pointing that out hehe

Anyway I don't think women are controlled by this - it's just the path of least resistance. It's not quite the same thing but I think it's somewhat hypocritical to believe men who follow football etc are all that better.

DOLEMAN · 26-05-2006 9:51pm

therannu wrote:

Perceived differences between male and female modes of behaviour are down to social conditioning rather than X and Y chromosomes.

Um... hormones anybody?

But yes, I agree in general. Compare an Irish girl with a French girl. Complete opposites (Aggressive v Feminine).

therannu · 26-05-2006 9:53pm

Since when has aggressive been the opposite of feminine?

DOLEMAN · 26-05-2006 9:56pm

therannu wrote:

Since when has aggressive been the opposite of feminine?

I was generalising, but in general when you think

Male v Female

you think aggression v femininity.

therannu · 26-05-2006 10:05pm

DOLEMAN wrote:

I was generalising, but in general when you think

Male v Female

you think aggression v femininity.

Not really. I think of body parts! But for some reason I'm not allowed on the sex forum.

I know many, many women who are much more aggressive than most of the guys I know.

Femininity is not as easy to define as aggression. I would imagine that every woman is entitled to define her own feminity. She might even include aggressive characteristics in her feminine identity.

I know you'll say you were speaking generally, and that's fair enough, but I don't like to generalise.

DOLEMAN · 26-05-2006 10:07pm

I love to generalise

Would you admit Irish women are more aggressive than French women? I am yet to meet an aggressive French girl (I know many) but find it hard to meet a feminine Irish girl...

therannu · 26-05-2006 10:16pm

Two words: Amelie Mauresmo.

Seriously, I have no idea. I don't know many French women, and am still baffled by your definition of femininity.

I used to live with a couple of French women. They certainly weren't aggressive, but neither were the Irish women in the house.

Maybe you're a bit scared of women in general (!) and are placing your hopes on these imaginary French mademoiselles of yours!

Just kidding.

simu · 26-05-2006 10:35pm

DOLEMAN wrote:

But yes, I agree in general. Compare an Irish girl with a French girl. Complete opposites (Aggressive v Feminine).

Zomg! French girls can be super agressive tbh! Just less obviously so!

astrofool · 26-05-2006 11:33pm

therannu wrote:

It's certainly not genetic (if you must try to be scientific about your prejudices, at least use the correct word).

Perceived differences between male and female modes of behaviour are down to social conditioning rather than X and Y chromosomes.

As we're being scientific, it should be pointed out that scientists don't really know either way, and that it's generally accepted as being a combination of nature(genetics) and nurture(social engineering), after all, the social engineering did come from some base instinct, and repeated itself in disconnected societies and cultures.

Back on topic, I think South Park covered it well when they did their piece on Paris Hilton (google stupid spoiled whore episode), but at the end of the day, as many women as men will be interested in the 'low' subjects, just different subjects, and the measure as to whether feminism is still alive and kicking will always be in representation at the high end, i.e. CEO jobs, political, lawyers, doctors etc. and here there is a rise and rise in the power women have.

Judging gender by their worst isn't difficult, though you gotta wonder what the world would be like if on the 50/50 chance Einstein was a woman.

nesf · 27-05-2006 12:40am

astrofool wrote:

Judging gender by their worst isn't difficult, though you gotta wonder what the world would be like if on the 50/50 chance Einstein was a woman.

Eh, women suck at maths. Well proven fact. So no female Einstein.

27-05-2006 6:04am

DOLEMAN wrote:

I love to generalise

Would you admit Irish women are more aggressive than French women? I am yet to meet an aggressive French girl (I know many) but find it hard to meet a feminine Irish girl...

Oh come on :eek:

Eh, women suck at maths.

You people are all strange.

BrenC · 27-05-2006 9:31am

I'd never buy that thrash,

melekalikimaka · 27-05-2006 9:34am

bring back RIOT GRRL

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Riot_grrrl

Bottle_of_Smoke · 27-05-2006 12:22pm

simu wrote:

Zomg! French girls can be super agressive tbh! Just less obviously so!

Certainly behind the wheel of a car!

And I would not want a french grilfriend knowing I'd cheated on her

Neo Feminism

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