Neo Feminism

nesf

quickbeam wrote:

I don't think Jade and Chantelle are complete morons. I think fair play to them for finding a niche and making their money on it.

I'd be more inclined to credit whoever it is who manages and guides them tbh.

Bottle_of_Smoke

I think it might be genetic - gossip is just something women of all ages have a greater interest than men.

Maybe it was once advantageous to survival, women who enjoyed knowing everything about everyone else might have been more likely to find a mate successfully to breed with. Hence us.

I don't see it as a setback for women - all the women interested in that crap are usually just pointless entities that don't stand for real women. They'd just be obsessed with soaps if there were no jades etc.

wheres me jumpa

simu wrote:

Nah, I'm just saying it doesn't require major intellectual strain on the part of the viewer. I just find it odd that the OP would get so annoyed about one form of brain-dead entertainment when there are so many out there.

Simu Im not looking for an argument. IMHO sportsmen and women are talented people who work hard to get where they are.

DOLEMAN

GENERALLY women want attention and nice clothes/jewellery/etc.

Retards like Jade have all this. That is why women (kind of) admire her.

There is nothing wrong with this. It's just the way women are.

GENERALLY men want women and power.

Retards like Hugh Hefner have all this. That is why men (kind of) admire him.

There is nothing wrong with this. It's just the way men are.

...

I hate the way feminists want to be men. There is nothing wrong with having female "weaknesses". You don't have to compete with men at everything. I'm never going to try to breast feed my kid. It's OK.

/:D

AngryAnderson

wheres me jumpa wrote:

Sport is loved by men and women. Sports men and women are extremely talented individuals. The people in question have no talent, no brains or nothing to offer the world.

Have to say I kind of agree with men and football... but for different reasons. I can understand people from London supporting Chelsea or Arsenal. I can understand people from Manchester supporting Manchester; or people from Liverpool supporting Liverpool. It does amaze me though how so many Irish people support teams like Manchester, Liverpool and Arsenal. What's the connection? Why would you 'support' a brand that has virtually no connection to you? Why support a team in another country? Why not support Coca-Cola or McDonalds? Why not support HMV? That's really all big football teams are... a brand aimed at emptying suckers wallets. Never mind that most of the people playing for these teams aren't even Manchester/Liverpool/etc. incumbants.

Back on topic - yes, men or women who discuss Big Brother, Jade Goody, Brian McFadden, etc. and buy the magazines where they sell 'incredible stories' about their vapid lives... are dummys.

therannu

Bottle_of_Smoke wrote:

I think it might be genetical.

It's certainly not genetic (if you must try to be scientific about your prejudices, at least use the correct word).

Perceived differences between male and female modes of behaviour are down to social conditioning rather than X and Y chromosomes.

Bottle_of_Smoke

therannu wrote:

It's certainly not genetic (if you must try to be scientific about your prejudices, at least use the correct word).

Perceived differences between male and female modes of behaviour are down to social conditioning rather than X and Y chromosomes.

Cheers for pointing that out hehe

Anyway I don't think women are controlled by this - it's just the path of least resistance. It's not quite the same thing but I think it's somewhat hypocritical to believe men who follow football etc are all that better.

DOLEMAN

therannu wrote:

Perceived differences between male and female modes of behaviour are down to social conditioning rather than X and Y chromosomes.

Um... hormones anybody?

But yes, I agree in general. Compare an Irish girl with a French girl. Complete opposites (Aggressive v Feminine).

therannu

Since when has aggressive been the opposite of feminine?

DOLEMAN

therannu wrote:

Since when has aggressive been the opposite of feminine?

I was generalising, but in general when you think

Male v Female

you think aggression v femininity.

therannu

DOLEMAN wrote:

I was generalising, but in general when you think

Male v Female

you think aggression v femininity.

Not really. I think of body parts! But for some reason I'm not allowed on the sex forum.

I know many, many women who are much more aggressive than most of the guys I know.

Femininity is not as easy to define as aggression. I would imagine that every woman is entitled to define her own feminity. She might even include aggressive characteristics in her feminine identity.

I know you'll say you were speaking generally, and that's fair enough, but I don't like to generalise.

DOLEMAN

I love to generalise

Would you admit Irish women are more aggressive than French women? I am yet to meet an aggressive French girl (I know many) but find it hard to meet a feminine Irish girl...

therannu

Two words: Amelie Mauresmo.

Seriously, I have no idea. I don't know many French women, and am still baffled by your definition of femininity.

I used to live with a couple of French women. They certainly weren't aggressive, but neither were the Irish women in the house.

Maybe you're a bit scared of women in general (!) and are placing your hopes on these imaginary French mademoiselles of yours!

Just kidding.

simu

DOLEMAN wrote:

But yes, I agree in general. Compare an Irish girl with a French girl. Complete opposites (Aggressive v Feminine).

Zomg! French girls can be super agressive tbh! Just less obviously so!

astrofool

therannu wrote:

It's certainly not genetic (if you must try to be scientific about your prejudices, at least use the correct word).

Perceived differences between male and female modes of behaviour are down to social conditioning rather than X and Y chromosomes.

As we're being scientific, it should be pointed out that scientists don't really know either way, and that it's generally accepted as being a combination of nature(genetics) and nurture(social engineering), after all, the social engineering did come from some base instinct, and repeated itself in disconnected societies and cultures.

Back on topic, I think South Park covered it well when they did their piece on Paris Hilton (google stupid spoiled whore episode), but at the end of the day, as many women as men will be interested in the 'low' subjects, just different subjects, and the measure as to whether feminism is still alive and kicking will always be in representation at the high end, i.e. CEO jobs, political, lawyers, doctors etc. and here there is a rise and rise in the power women have.

Judging gender by their worst isn't difficult, though you gotta wonder what the world would be like if on the 50/50 chance Einstein was a woman.

nesf

astrofool wrote:

Judging gender by their worst isn't difficult, though you gotta wonder what the world would be like if on the 50/50 chance Einstein was a woman.

Eh, women suck at maths. Well proven fact. So no female Einstein.

coffee_cake

DOLEMAN wrote:

I love to generalise

Would you admit Irish women are more aggressive than French women? I am yet to meet an aggressive French girl (I know many) but find it hard to meet a feminine Irish girl...

Oh come on :eek:

Eh, women suck at maths.

You people are all strange.

BrenC

I'd never buy that thrash,

melekalikimaka

bring back RIOT GRRL

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Riot_grrrl

Bottle_of_Smoke

simu wrote:

Zomg! French girls can be super agressive tbh! Just less obviously so!

Certainly behind the wheel of a car!

And I would not want a french grilfriend knowing I'd cheated on her

fly_agaric

wheres me jumpa wrote:

Now im not starting a women vs men thread, Im curious to know what the women out there actually think of complete morons such as Jade. We all hate these people but yet someone is interested in them as they sell mags.

Not a woman but a person. I can understand curiosity and voyerism so I don't find it amazing that some women get off reading about the lives of these dim-bulb celebrities.

[BTW I mean dim in terms of true "star" quality - being famous solely for being a media-whore rather than being famous for doing or achieving something difficult which requires talent (regardless of whether snobs think that talent or achievement is completely useless to the rest of humanity or not)].

In fact, the dimmer and more ordinary the better. What would be the fun for fans of mags like heat etc if all the people whose lives are discussed were really so talented and high achieving that it made you feel a bit pathetic by comparison?

Big Brother and other reality TV has been a great boon for these kind of magazines.

Shellie13

simu wrote:

Meh, entertainment for the dumb masses. A lot of men fall for that shíte too - look at the success of soccer, for example.

Hate to stivck up for the male majority here...but as much as i hate soccer at least they HAVE a talent!!!
The rise of the idiotic talentless celebrity is a noughties phenmionon...
look back a few generation the "stars" were the likes of marylin monroe, the beatles etc...
People who excelled in their field albeit not nessicarily a noble trait they were famous for DOING somthing! Nowdays it seems people will throw their money away to see pictures of people like themselfs eating pizza MAD!!!

simu

Shellie13 wrote:

Hate to stivck up for the male majority here...but as much as i hate soccer at least they HAVE a talent!!!
The rise of the idiotic talentless celebrity is a noughties phenmionon...
look back a few generation the "stars" were the likes of marylin monroe, the beatles etc...
People who excelled in their field albeit not nessicarily a noble trait they were famous for DOING somthing! Nowdays it seems people will throw their money away to see pictures of people like themselfs eating pizza MAD!!!

Soccer's been around longer so the process of getting to the top requires more than just random selection. Someday, it'll be the same for reality shows. Well, already, they don't just pick people lottery style - they pick people who will attract viewers' attention. Maybe it's not a great talent but it's a talent all the same.

fly_agaric

simu wrote:

Well, already, they don't just pick people lottery style - they pick people who will attract viewers' attention. Maybe it's not a great talent but it's a talent all the same.

If you stick your tongue too far into your cheek it may become stuck there!:)

scorplett

This concept of neo feminism is a complete falacy. There can be no neo feminism as we are not yet post feminism in society, and therefore there cannot be neo feminism.
What is going on in the aforementioned magazienes is entertainment. [FULL STOP]

quickbeam wrote:

I don't think Jade and Chantelle are complete morons. I think fair play to them for finding a niche and making their money on it. They obviously has something which appeals.
I think the people who are morons are the people buying this sh!t.

Just because the target market is women does not by default make them a feminist statement. It is possibly an outlet for escapsim and fantasy without the need for deep thought or critical processes and can even for the most academic of women be a grounding break form the struggle to assert themselves in an as yet unequal working environment.
These magazienes should in fact be congradulated for their adept marketing stratagies. They have become the guilty pleasure, the frivilous indulgance and the inner escape. They are a diversion. They are a new media adaptation for contemporary women in the same way as mills and boon, scandalas novels, marquis de sade and even as far back as venitian novellets. They are the social commentaries of present day and in function, are hardley at all removed from the very first social colums of the first print Boston Globe or London Times, just this mode uses pictures and utalises visual paradoy and cater to the mob mentality of global culture.

I do however agree with you on the point that the women this thread seems to be focoused on are far from complete morons. In fact many of them are quite calculated and have shrewed business minds.

nesf wrote:

I'd be more inclined to credit whoever it is who manages and guides them tbh.

In the case of women such as Jordan and Abby Titmus you need look no further than the women themselves as they manage all of their own PR and run very successfull business.

In advance reply to those who might question that we in society today are not yet in the post feminist era please see the following links
http://www.justice.ie/80256E010039C5AF/vWeb/pcJUSQ6JLLEP-en
http://www.ndpgenderequality.ie/publications/publications.html
http://www.tcd.ie/Womens_Studies/
http://www.eiro.eurofound.ie/print/2006/04/articles/fi0604019i.html

fly_agaric

In advance reply to those who might question that we in society today are not yet in the post feminist era please see the following links

http://www.ndpgenderequality.ie/publications/publications_05.html

Those cartoons are quite a hoot alright.

Where is the funny stuff for housing, education, and health I wonder? Do we not get funny little feminist cartoons for those?

EDIT: I see the football-mad man cartoon has the tag "housing" but it seems to be about
a)how lazy men are
b)how men waste money and time on frivilous things (sport, big screen tv's)

Kind of funny when this thread is about women's enjoyment of the diversions provided by the gossip mags and the lives of minor celebrities.

scorplett

fly_agaric wrote:

Kind of funny when this thread is about women's enjoyment of the diversions provided by the gossip mags and the lives of minor celebrities.

That IS the point
Congratulations on your quick thinking

Jonnymelad

just try and get along and try to ignore life's p*ssmops.

fly_agaric

scorplett wrote:

That IS the point

Eh, the point of what? Did you post the NDP link just so that people would see that "Housing" cartoon?

Ah furgeddit!:p

scorplett wrote:

Congratulations on your quick thinking

Thank you for the compliment. It's a nice change from people always telling me I'm not the sharpest tool in the box.

Jonnymelad wrote:

just try and get along and try to ignore life's p*ssmops.

You are reading and posting on an internet discussion forum.
You are not following your own advice very well.

Zombrex

HOw is Jade Goody an example of Neo-Feminism? How is she an example of Feminism in general or in fact any *ism?

Just because she is a woman and quite rich doesn't mean she is a political movement:rolleyes: