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Drug Abuse

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Comments

  • #52
    nobodythere
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,349 ✭✭✭nobodythere


    Catsmokinpot wrote:
    thanks yet again for proving my point some random johnny fúckin drug dealer gave someone some fúcked up sh1t and they died from it. can you see what ur saying, if they were legalised drugs. that sort of **** wouldn't happen youd be cutting mortality rates from drugs in half... you'd be taking money out of asshole drugdealers pockets.

    You wouldn't cut drug abuse because the stigma of using drugs would disappear if they were legalised, and they would be much more accessible and readily available. They would be as casual as alcohol and nicotine.

    Secretly, with regards to soft drugs (hash, mushies, acid), I like the way things are now. Drugs cannot be obtained legally but are still available if you want to do them. This pro/anti drug war has stopped somewhere nice in the middle.


  • #53
    rubadub
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,383 ✭✭✭✭rubadub


    Cannabis was on the verge of legalisation in the US when Carter was in power, there were lots of studies showing how safe it was and how the negative effects of illegalisation far outweighed the benefits of it being illegal.
    The World Health Organization has concluded that cannabis, when smoked, is twice as carcinogenic as tobacco.
    This is probably the old method of comparing a hand rolled unfiltered joint compared to a treated, filtered, cured cigarette. It should compare like with like, a hand rolled naturally dried leaf in both cases. Also the THC from cannabis smoke is absorbed into the lungs in a split second, there is no point holding it in longer, this is not the case with tobacoo. Many people trying to quit tobacco move to "light" smokes, but hold it in longer so get the same amount of nicotine while doing themselves even more harm than normal.
    THC can be vaporised with no smoke at all coming off it, in this case it has no carcinogenic effect. These studies also seem to forget that it can be eaten, I am pretty sure lettuce would be carcinogenic if smoked but nobody wants that banned.
    Furthermore, cannabis is now 10 times as pure as it was 20 years ago, which points to potentially greater health risks than earlier research has identified
    Now this just shows the lack of logic that the writer has. I mentioned about smoking light cigarettes and holding it in longer. It is not the nicotine or the THC that causes damage but the harmful smoke and chemicals it produces like carbon monoxide. If cannabis is 10 times stronger, it means you smoke 10 times less to reach the same desired state of intoxication. Whiskey is 10 times stronger than beer, people do not go out and drink 8 pints of whiskey.
    Having strong cannabis reduces the harm to the user. It is crazy that purified THC is a class A drug, people who care about their health and choose hash oil or proper hash will be done for possesion of a class A substance. I used to smoke cigarettes, up to 60 a day at one point. When smoking quality hashish it only takes about a pinhead to get the desired effect.
    cannabis also causes dependence in about 10% of users and in 50-90% of regular users
    thats a new one on me. I have never seen any study which found cannabis to be addictive. Maybe they have there own version of what "dependent" means. It has never been proven that it is not addictive, and never will be! you cannot prove a negative. The same could be said of lettuce, it might be addictive, since no study can ever show that it is not.
    I have no doubt that smoking standard UK/Irish "joints" is an extremely addictive pursuit. Tobacco is regarded by most journals as the most addictive substance known, yet you get no real enjoyment from nicotine, the pleasure is the relief of your withdrawl symptoms. Now combine the most addictive substance known with a drug which gives you a pleasant high and you have a super-addictive substance. If alcohol was usually drank laced with nicotine, there would be a huge amount of drinkers who were alcoholics.


  • #54
    miju
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 8,486 ✭✭✭miju


    rubadub IMHO you've picked the three weakest parts of that text tried to pick the argument apart and completely ignored all the strong parts of the argument that you cant explain away with a warped logic


  • #55
    rubadub
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,383 ✭✭✭✭rubadub


    _raptor_ wrote:
    rubadub IMHO you've picked the three weakest parts of that text tried to pick the argument apart and completely ignored all the strong parts of the argument that you cant explain away with a warped logic

    You say it like there were millions of "strong arguments", I agree with some of the stuff. I do think some have nothing to do with cannabis. Each paragraph is on a different general subject and has some stupid statement which then leads me to doubt if any of the quoted figures are correct. I see their logic as warped, not mine, what flaws do you see in my arguments.
    precipitates schizophrenia
    I have heard that before, probably true.
    violent behaviour
    now that is a new one on me! Jesus christ, where did they pull that one out of. At least they didnt get into the gateway bull****, that even our own boys in blue have admitted is crap.

    Surely you cannot agree with the "10 times stronger" argument. Comparing tobacoo smoke to cannabis is like comparing doughnuts to salt. Yes both are bad for your health, but then saying eating 100g of salt is far worse than eating 100g of doughnuts, therefore salt should be banned. They are not smoked/eaten in the same amounts by users.
    increased promiscuity
    I would have guessed this of any drug user, they are generally far more open minded, I would imagine the little quiet librarian who doesnt drink smoke or listen to the devils rock n roll music is not out sucking as much cock as the drunken slapper smoking dope outside the local.
    I would say promiscuous people would be more likely to take cannabis, not the other way around. If I spiked the librarian, I dont think she will turn into a slut overnight.


  • #56
    SherriffBuck
    Closed Accounts Posts: 29 ✭SherriffBuck


    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=222650&highlight=legalise+cannabis :rolleyes:

    Ive had a nosey around and this nonsense thread has been done before, except better......

    Some real facts here, not the makey upy crap I have seen the Pro drugs, legalise drugs people on this thread.


  • #57
    Catsmokinpot
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,622 ✭✭✭Catsmokinpot


    SherriffBuck wrote:
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=222650&highlight=legalise+cannabis :rolleyes:

    Ive had a nosey around and this nonsense thread has been done before, except better......

    Some real facts here, not the makey upy crap I have seen the Pro drugs, legalise drugs people on this thread.
    the makey upy crap? :D good word use there buddy, real facts? ok you give us some real facts there buddy :) id love to hear them


  • #58
    jazzbandit
    Closed Accounts Posts: 47 ✭jazzbandit


    Jesus, drugs. Bad bad stuff.Crime, HIV, Hep B, Hep C, wasted health resources. We all know it's bad. We all know it's a problem in Ireland. Injecting drug users are the big problem. Lumping hash in with heroin is a bit off the mark, I suppose. Hash can probably cause long term problems, although a lot of the work is inconclusive. WE can argue about it, but nobody really knows the answers.

    WE know about IV heroin though. We all know the problems it causes. We also know the link between IV drug abuse and soci0-economic status. To put it bluntly, the poorer you are, the more likely you are to use drugs.

    That's never a popular opinion, usually attracting a chorus of "it's all about personal choice" from the right. The relaity is that there are a myriad of reasons why the poor are more likely to A) start using heroin and B) become addicted to heroin.

    Importantly, many many studies also show that one of the most important factors in determining drug use in a society is the level of inequality. There's some uncertaintly about the reasons for this, but it has resulted in directed givt policy in the UK (one of the most unequal societies in the western world)trying to reduce inequality, rather than simply trying to reduce poverty.

    What im tryin to say, in a long winded way, is that the answer to the drugs problem is political and economic. Getting people workin and into quality housing, and getting their self esteem back is part of the answer.

    The answer is not listening to guys like mc guyver who go on like they're the only person who's seen a drug addict before, and thus should be the only people who can hold an opinion. The people in the department of finance are unlikely to have met many drug adicts, but are likly to be far more important in the war against drugs than any key worker in the quays.

    And before anyone accuses me of being a bleedin heart liberal I'd like to state that I think most drug abusers are tossers. I usually dislike them intensely. I have worked with many many drug abusers in the past, and only remember one who I actually got on with. Now that I work with kids, I see the mess they leave behind when they get pregnant.

    However, regardless of what we think of them, we can all agree sociaty would be better off without drugs?

    The jazz man


  • #59
    Dave!
    Closed Accounts Posts: 27,857 ✭✭✭✭Dave!


    I agree 100% with Catsmokinpot and rubadub; they've pretty much summed up collectively, what I think.

    It's none of your business what I do with my body -- you're not my mammy. And lots of people mess up their lives on drugs, but those people are weak, imo. If you can't handle it, don't do it. If you want to do something, do the research on it before you do. For instance, I'm never going to do heroine or cocaine because they're so addictive, and I can see how easily they destroy lives -- and I would be afraid of overdosing. I have smoked cigarettes and weed, and drunk alcohol, and haven't had any problems whatsoever. If I found myself having problems, I would stop using it, as someone earlier did.

    I can control myself, and once you can, drugs shouldn't be a problem for you. If you find yourself addicted to chocolate, then you probably shouldn't try heroine -- get me?
    jazzbandit wrote:
    However, regardless of what we think of them, we can all agree sociaty would be better off without drugs?

    uhh... no?


  • #60
    Blub2k4
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,733 ✭✭✭Blub2k4


    DaveMcG wrote:
    I can control myself, and once you can, drugs shouldn't be a problem for you. If you find yourself addicted to chocolate, then you probably shouldn't try heroine -- get me?


    I dont know any junkies that didn't say that at some point, some of them actually so far along the road to addiction that they didn't even see that they were already in the grip of heroin.

    I'd go as far as to say that no matter how strong you think yourself to be that trying heroin is always a bad idea.
    Dont test out your "theory" would be my advice.


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  • #61
    Resurrection
    Site Banned Posts: 152 ✭✭Resurrection


    Drugs can be a problem if you have no self control. I've eaten a few thousand pills in the last 6 year(E), snorted mountains of cocaine, snorted ketamine, MDMA powder, ate acid tabs, ate mushrooms, opium, yaba(thai version of crack), various painkillers and tranquilisers

    I'm 20 years old and other than having the blues from binging a bit too much i'm perfectly healthy. WIll I continue to do this for the rest of my life? No, I won't be even smoking weed/hash by the time I turn 25. I'm young and im enjoying it and my abuse isn't problamatic.

    But to answer your question, drugs are easy to get in this country but whether they are a problem or not - everyone has their own story


  • #62
    rubadub
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,383 ✭✭✭✭rubadub


    Yaba is actually methamphetamine, it is also called "P" in New Zealand and is a huge problem there (and the US). usually a red pill in thailand due to the poor extraction while using red phosphorous in its production.
    Why do you think you will not be smoking cannabis when you turn 25? This interests me, a friend of mine said something similar that he would "be too old to smoke", he then said in his 30's or 40's, I thought it strange, I never hear of people saying they will not be drinking or smoking tobacco after 25/when they are "too old"

    as for the term "Pro drugs, legalise drugs people on this thread", I know of very few people who are anti-drug, most people have, or have friends/family that benefited from antibiotics, pain relief, cough medicine. Or is it just that drugs should strictly be for relieving pain or displeasure, rather than causing pleasure?
    drugs fix pain, good
    drugs cause pleasure, bad...

    Here is a link to an interesting sample from a book, especially the section
    "Why Can't We Cope with Ecstasy and Euphoria?"

    http://www.erowid.org/library/books_online/pharmacotheon/pharmacotheon.shtml


  • #63
    Resurrection
    Site Banned Posts: 152 ✭✭Resurrection


    rubadub wrote:
    Yaba is actually methamphetamine, it is also called "P" in New Zealand and is a huge problem there (and the US). usually a red pill in thailand due to the poor extraction while using red phosphorous in its production.
    Why do you think you will not be smoking cannabis when you turn 25? This interests me, a friend of mine said something similar that he would "be too old to smoke", he then said in his 30's or 40's, I thought it strange, I never hear of people saying they will not be drinking or smoking tobacco after 25/when they are "too old"

    as for the term "Pro drugs, legalise drugs people on this thread", I know of very few people who are anti-drug, most people have, or have friends/family that benefited from antibiotics, pain relief, cough medicine. Or is it just that drugs should strictly be for relieving pain or displeasure, rather than causing pleasure?
    drugs fix pain, good
    drugs cause pleasure, bad...

    Here is a link to an interesting sample from a book, especially the section
    "Why Can't We Cope with Ecstasy and Euphoria?"

    http://www.erowid.org/library/books_online/pharmacotheon/pharmacotheon.shtml

    Yeah originally created by the Nazi's to keep soilders up for days. I just broke it down to the Thai version of crack because I smoked it off tinfoil rather than swollowing it. Its one drug that I hope doesn't work it's way into Ireland. It's rather sweet tasting when you smoke it and the high is quite nice but very morish. Yeah all the YABA i've had and seen in Thailand/Asia has been a redpill that comes in a vacum pack.
    I say I will be off drugs then because i'll have major responsibilities. Im just enjoying my youth and already have cut out alot of that stuff. I don't mind doin the pills at festivals or anything like that or on the special occasion. I won't be smoking hash/weed when im 25 because im not a stoner now, its a social thing. Pass joints around while having cans at the weekend. Im not a big smoker at all, especially with the crap resin we get over here and when good weed is available it is waaay over priced.

    I'm enjoying life.


  • #64
    pretty-in-pink
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,007 ✭✭✭pretty-in-pink


    At the risk of having the "pro-drug" army jump down my throat, I would like to point out a few things:

    1) Its not the amount you take of something that makes you addict, but the effect it has on you.

    2a) You are never alone with an addiction - the people in your life are affected by your behaviour- even if you're "not addicted" it's a problem for them. and it's selfish to continue doing something unnecessary that cause the people you claim to care about hurt becasue "you're young and you only live once". Guess what? A chemical fog is not reality- so you're not so much living as you are blindly stumbbling around going nowhere fast.

    2b) the whole "it's my body" argument is used by druggies, alchys and people seeking abortions. Are you trying to convince us or you?
    In any event it's generally* not an activity I'd support and so your arguments meerly serve to demean the whole my body-my life actuality. (i.e. how many people are affected by you getting a tattoo- as opposed to say getting off your head on pills/coke etc or drinking yourself into a stupor, or killing another living organism due to being to selfish to see that even if you don't want a kid there are plenty of people out there who do)

    3) Whatever it is you're trying to escape by abusing both illegal and legal intoxicating substances will still be an issue when you come down - so maybe instead of running from your problems you should deal with them?

    4) A question - what is this b.s about "stopping when im 25/30/35 etc?" Seriously, if you plan to stop, do it now. Why waste so much time and money on a habit you don't intend to keep.

    5) Like it or not it's called a "drugs problem" because thats exactly what it is. I've seen people on stuff, and the various effects of stuff. I know what 3 of them were- but no more. I don't like to see it, it makes me feel scared, angry, hurt and worried. I'm going to guess thats what anyone who is close to you would feel should they discover your little habbits. Get out now before you are left alone, unless you qualify the company of other druggies as worthy of having. If you can rehabilitate, then do- for your sake and for the sakes of those in your life.

    6) A second question - what on earth would possess you to put that stuff in your body - any of it, especially if you have friends, partner, family members etc you can talk to? We do love you- and will be there for you. Love will make you better- but intoxicating substances will make things worse- much worse. You might have an argument about being the "victim"- but what about those directly involved in your life? what about the people you're hurting through your selfish actions? Do any of ye ever take the time to consider just how much you are adding to the damage in your life- and the lives of those you come into contact with? The question is Why? Why would you do drugs when it hurts everyone involved- and it does, believe me.

    * there are some exceptions to the whole abortion argument that make it more acceptable. That said I don't think any of the more-deserving cases actually use the "my body my choice" argument - like say a pregnancy caused by forced incest.


  • #65
    rubadub
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,383 ✭✭✭✭rubadub


    naughty_girl wrote:
    4) A question - what is this b.s about "stopping when im 25/30/35 etc?" Seriously, if you plan to stop, do it now. Why waste so much time and money on a habit you don't intend to keep.
    [/I]
    Why waste money buying children toys? they wont play with them when they hit their teens.
    naughty_girl wrote:
    3) Whatever it is you're trying to escape by abusing both illegal and legal intoxicating substances will still be an issue when you come down - so maybe instead of running from your problems you should deal with them?

    what on earth would possess you to put that stuff in your body - any of it,[/I]
    Must be a great laugh down the boozer.


  • #66
    Chavster
    Closed Accounts Posts: 145 ✭✭Chavster


    Where the hell did abortion come from? And how can you possibly link the two? Seriously though Naughty your whole post smacks of naivety.

    Wow..you've *seen* people on 'stuff' and even knew what it was 3 times?
    You've made several assumptions that just don't apply to the vast majority of people. Firstly you're assuming that all drugs are addictive - wrong. Secondly you assume that all people take drugs to 'escape' from something - wrong. The 'it's my body' is wholly relevant and the abortion thing is completely unrelated. Lastly drugs seem to be a problem to you because they make you 'scared, angry, hurt and worried' - well woe is you is all i can say to that. I can go on but is there any need?

    For every lowlife robbing junkie smackhead (heroin addicts if that was a bit advanced for you) there is someone who indulges and manages to be a successful person and contribute to society in a meaningful way.


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  • #67
    pretty-in-pink
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,007 ✭✭✭pretty-in-pink


    Kids playing with toys, most of which help with their cerebral development- and later stimulate their imagination and so forth. REcreational drugs do what exactly? They damage the body and brain with the exception of those that cure cancer etc- and even they have some nasty long term side-effects.

    Recreational drugs cannot be compared to toys. If you're going to quit drugs do it before you seriously damage your body.

    I mentioned abortion as it also has the my body,my choice argument. That is all.

    That argument in relation to drugs doesn't wash- you all must have people involved in your life, and like it or not your little habbit (or whatever you want to call it)affects them. If it's no big deal why not tell your siblings? your parents? any possible partner you might have? kids? work mates? bosses?

    Anything can become addictive- addiction is physical, physchcological and emotional, I might be naive about drugs- and I'm glad I don't have any direct dealings with that paticular aspect of humanity, but I do know about addiciton. I've grown up around it, I've had an ex or two who are addicts- so don't try and tell me what addicion is or isn't, or that there are non-addicitve substances.

    Not everyone becomes an addict, but the chemical changes in the brain due to excess nicotine/caffine/alcohol etc etc etc surely have permanent consequences for the brain, and can eventually turn people into addicts. Smoking a joint doesn't make you an addict, but scoring every weekend because you need the buzz to make the weekend brilliant? or taking something (coke speed etc) to keep awake?or maybe smoking to chill out? they are all bad signs.

    Like mr.garrisson says: drugs are bad mmkay?

    I don't think all people who do drugs are bad, some are quite nice- and if there are people who are quite successful while taking drugs I can only imagine how much more successful they would be if they were clean.

    Drugs do make you aggressive-maybe not all of them but some do. They make people do bad bad things. I really can't understand why someone would do something so stupid and destructive, so why not try and explain the positive reasons for taking drugs, and how on earth you discovered them in the first place?


  • #68
    rubadub
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,383 ✭✭✭✭rubadub


    naughty_girl wrote:
    Kids playing with toys, most of which help with their cerebral development- and later stimulate their imagination and so forth. REcreational drugs do what exactly?
    ehhh, stimulate the imagination and so forth...
    My point was that kids grow out of something that they find fun at one stage. You asked why they would take them now if they will give up later, I have a friend who reckons he will "grow out" of smoking cannabis in his 40's, he will continue now knowing the risks. Don't underestimate the value of stress relief that many drugs (legal or not) can offer, stress is a major cause of illness these days.
    Most of the true psychedelics are extremely benign substances, processed easily by the body, you are at far more risk breathing in the air around you. Many compounds are very similar to those already in the body and easily metabolised. DMT is actually found in the brain already.

    naughty_girl wrote:
    Recreational drugs cannot be compared to toys.
    they are both used for enjoyment with learning and insight gained from both. Some toys and some drugs and some sports have inherent risks associated with them that the parent/drug user/sports person should inform themselves about before partaking in it, it is up to themselves if the enjoyment they think they will get is worth the risk.
    naughty_girl wrote:
    Like mr.garrisson says: drugs are bad mmkay?
    the south park writers are being sarcastic mocking the hypocrisy and black & white view of drug laws. You think those 2 crazy nutters came up with south park sitting around sipping tea?


    naughty_girl wrote:
    I don't think all people who do drugs are bad, some are quite nice- and if there are people who are quite successful while taking drugs I can only imagine how much more successful they would be if they were clean.
    Depends on peoples own idea of success. I suspect you are referring to material gain and wealth rather than happiness. Many people drop out of the materialistic rat race and are very happy with their stress free existence. Many people enjoy working menial stress free jobs.
    The discoverer of LSD and authority on many psychoactive substances, Dr. Albert Hofmann is due to turn 100 this janurary, stress free living, keep taking your supplements :D
    They say cannabis robs you of ambition, that "ambition" is usually to be wealthy, cannabis and psychedelics can change your outlook on life, most users would say for the better, but the economically driven "powers that be" want a population that makes them money.
    Let them live their life, people are "addicted" to many things but not in the medical sense of the word, the person who must do the crossword every day, or must have the 10am muffin. They could give it up, but why? if they enjoy it.

    naughty_girl wrote:
    I really can't understand why someone would do something so stupid and destructive, so why not try and explain the positive reasons for taking drugs, and how on earth you discovered them in the first place?
    The link in my post above may interest you.


  • #69
    Chavster
    Closed Accounts Posts: 145 ✭✭Chavster


    naughty_girl wrote:
    Drugs do make you aggressive-maybe not all of them but some do.

    Oh my god is that a breakthrough? :) This is the point i'm trying to get across, making sweeping generalisations like 'all people who take drugs are scum' are just completely untrue statements to make. Let me illustrate my point (*i don't subscribe to any of these views btw*)

    All druggies are scumbags
    All blacks are scumbags
    All travellers are scumbags
    All Irish are scumbags (don't have to go too far back in time for this one)
    All women are bad drivers ;)
    etc etc etc

    I would say that all of those statements apart from one have people recoiling in PC horror. They are plainly ignorant and stupid things to say about groups of people.

    By the same logic, a huge percentage of movie stars, rock stars are also bad people and scumbags. When a famous person admits to drug use it's no big deal but the average joe (or josephine! :) ) is automatically turned into a raving violent lunatic at the mere mention of it.
    naughty_girl wrote:
    They make people do bad bad things.

    And then the flipside... It is true that some people who take some substances do do stupid/bad/violent things. However I would say that it's the same percentage of people as in any other group of people (speculation, i have no figures to back that up!) Remember that there are plenty of people who do very bad things with no help from drugs at all.

    And to round it off... I'm not 'anti-drugs' or 'pro-drugs', it's a very complicated issue that can't be seperated into black & white like that. I believe that someone should be able to do what they want in life and until they hurt someone else or do something 'bad' then it shouldn't be a problem to anyone else.


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