Drug Abuse

It's a bit naiive to label it a problem with 'drugs'. eg, a huge percentage of the population has smoked some hash and will have caused very little trouble.

By contrast a small percentage of the population are heroin/crack addicts but will have caused loads of problems on society with crimes to feed habits.

I suppose the problems really lie in the person and the drug, not just the drug.

In my own experience and i expect some people will differ from this, I found that ecstacy has long term effects such as short term memory loss, and in some cases depression (although only on occasion).

Marijuana - this may have also caused the memory loss, i can't remember!!

Cocaine - This never really got me going, then again it's pretty ****e over here apparently..

Heroine - I've seen what this can do to a person.. quite sickening to see how it can destroy someone...

I think the problem is all "drugs" being lumped in together without any research being done. Alcohol, nicotine and caffeine are socially acceptable drugs, yet they (at least the first 2) kill the most people per annum. Yet marijuana, LSD, and soon, magic mushrooms, are illegal, and rarely cause problems (only in specific cases such as having a history of mental illness). It's bloody ridiculous, irresponsible, and infuriating the conservative, ignorant attitude of some governments. Mushrooms grow over here -- if someone wants them, they can go out to a field and pick them at their discretion. But they could pick the wrong ones and injure themselves, and that's the government's fault as much as it's theirs(well, the British government have passed this law, but I'm sure the Irish government is in close pursuit).

I'm going out with a recovering drug addict, so I see first hand what it causes. When I was growing up I never came across anything other than hash. Nowadays every drug possible can be bought just about anywhere in Ireland. The drug I feel has seen the biggest rise in users is coke. I see people taking it here every weekend.

One of the most surreal experiences was trying to hold a guys face together after he'd dropped some l.s.d. to "get into the mood for a concert"... he then proceeded to take a knife to his skin and try peeling it off.

Funny I've re-read my post a few times and I can't see any mention of me hearing/reading about this.... been there..done that, so no myth I'm afraid!

Maybe when you get to explain to a child why Mammys never coming home again after she's O.D'd you start to see the bigger picture.

Go for a trip to the Merchants Quay project.;..have a chat with some of the clients who can still string a sentence together.

The drug problem is a larger social issue... take a walk down Summerhill on a Saturday morning... do those young kids with track marks look like they made an educated choice to shoot up? Ever had to watch someone who's veins have collapsed from the needles ..not pretty when you see where they shoot up !!

_raptor_ wrote:

Shrooms should be illegal and the sooner they are the better. Do you realise that you are actually poisening yourself when you take shrooms, thats why you actually sweat and burn up so much on shrooms (its your system try to get rid of the toxins) and besides shrooms are ****.

There are people who can handle drugs and people who can't. For those who are prepared for them and can act responsibly, drugs can be a positive experience and through pre-preparation and post-reflection can greatly benefit your life and give you a perspective on the very nature of the universe that can be enlightening and fulfilling (referring to shrooms here to be quite specific).

To be honest, I think hash and alcohol are ****ty drugs.

The latter I have grown to dislike from working in a pub - everyone just acts like a shíthead and looks extremely drained and depressed between their short bursts of enthusiasm and excitement. I know the feeling of being worn down by drinking and feeling disconnected, worn out and out of it - and I think a good percentage of drinkers know this too. It takes you out as a person - kicks you in the belly and instead of standing on your own two feet and doing something with your life it leaves you trying to hold on to something as the solid ground falls beneath you (obviously I can only speak from personal experience).

I think hash is a ****ty drug mainly because I don't need it - I've never gotten any benefit from doing it, just felt tired and heavy. I've never needed it to relax with my friends and it doesn't help me have a good night - some drugs show you how marvellous the world is, but this just sort of takes you away from it, ripping the umbilical cord off so that you don't have to deal with it for a few hours.

I've also seen a few messed up lives through hash. One went into rehab with an addiction to all of the **** that they put in the hash that comes to Ireland, another gets severely depressed for a month after smoking and some people I know are never without a joint in their hand (varying from 1/4 up to 2 ounces per week). I'm only 17, I shouldn't see this happening to people around me that are my age.

But can you ban drugs? Do we need the government to Mammy us? Damn fúcking right we do, because most of us are NOT responsible people. This is why Plato did not believe in democracy. Most of us are idiots if you haven't yet noticed. Most of us need to be protected from certain things - not that governments have a personal interest in your wellbeing, but if you have to start stealing to support your phucktard addiction then I guess we'll put you back in the nappies and feed you mush.

I thought I was a responsible person, I didn't start drinking and doing drugs until my leaving cert year (just finished a few months ago). I thought that I could safely experiment with drugs and just find out what they're like. You can say you do it once but once you have a good experience it doesn't seem so serious doing it again and again and again. They were right about it being a gateway drug I think. There are people who can handle drugs and there are people who can't - and if I had access to a dealer and didn't just find **** in places I happened to be at I'd be well ****ed and stuck up **** creek without a paddle.

That's alcohol and hash though. I personally think that the one reason some drugs can't be banned (besides freedom) is because they have a spiritual value. My one experience with any other drug has been extremely positive - I became disconnected from reality but not from myself and I learned some life lessons from it through self-exploration that have shaped me in a good way. Anyone who has gone into it with a prepared mind that I know of has come out with a positive experience. And those who just want recreation from drugs - well Bill Hicks was right again - bring on evolution and have them jump out windows thinking they can fly. We'll watch the ground give way as I wave to them up above.

The Atheist wrote:

Drug users who can't kick the habit will inevitably turn to crime to fund their habit.

I'm sorry but that is a crock of shite, the majority of drug users are hash smokers with a large sprinkling of ecstacy users, it is said that at the height of it that there were 500,000 people taking E per weekend in the UK.
How many of these hash/E heads are out robbing to fund their habit?
You are talking about heroin/Benzodiazepine users on the streets who steal to fund their habit.
There are any number of studies negating the "gateway theory" with regard to marijuana, the reality is that the only link is coincidental, as hard and soft drugs are illegal there is a greater chance of coming into contact with hard drugs when dealing with soft drug dealers, it's all illegal sure, why not stock them all.
That is as far as the gateway idea extends and in a legalised system this link would be broken.

Drug users who can't kick the habit will inevitably turn to crime to fund their habit.

I'm afraid we need to be far more specific than this. Conventional thinking seems to define 'drugs' as the handful of illegal substances that keep making the headlines. One of the most dangerous drugs out there is paracetamol (i kid you not - one of the biggest killers annually). A lot of people don't see cigarettes and alcohol as drugs because they are accustomed to them. They have grown up around them, know how they work and for the most part know what the risks are with them.

Fact of the matter is that there are risks with all substances. There are ways of reducing these risks - of which education has to go first. The damage that has been done by tabloid reporting is immense. Blatant lies have been told about some drugs (ecstasy is a prime example) - leading to many people not believing a word they hear from conventional sources. At the same time, those with no knowledge whatsoever swallow the misinformation & give govt.'s the mandate to continue the 'war on drugs'/criminalisation approach.

So to reduce the risks, you can criminalise it - but prohibition won't work when there are people who want to use. Furthermore, it puts money into the hands of criminals, leads to needless risk in that many don't know what the hell their taking cos theres no such thing as quality control in the underworld. Court time and prison spaces are taken up unnecessarily.
Life is full of risks - some will always go overboard - thats the way it is. But do we have to take away peoples right to choose. Isnt it time to take a different approach?

_raptor_ wrote:

Its a typical response of a drug user

what is a typical drug user? people from all walks of life take drugs.. there is no typical drug user, their is no typical response either. the thing that most of you typical anti-drugs crusaders seem to miss is alcohol and cigarettes. now granted if you do heroin or crack in my book your a fúckin waster, but more people die from cigarettes each year than all other drugs combined. the second biggest killer is alcohol.

now drugs aren't for everyone, never have been! never will be! but don't go on a big crusade unless your willing to look at both sides.

cigarettes - more addictive than heroine, ive seen people irritable, shaking, asking random people on the street for a cigarette, two of my uncles died from lung cancer. i know loads more who have had problems with smoking cigarettes are sprayed full of chemicals to control the burn. cigarettes turn red under a UV light because theirs so many chemicals on them.

beer - seen people beat the sh1t out their own friends and family on it, seen more alcos on the streets because of it, my mother was an alcoholic. if there ever was a drug to bring you down, alcohol would be it. and the worst thing about it is the fact that people go around saying how cool it was being twisted or laughing about a mate getting his stomach pumped.... and then going off on crusades against "harder drugs"

hash - ive seen people get paranoid and lethargic on it, anyone who does shouldn't be doing it, your doing yourself no favours. does that mean nobody should do it? of course not. ive never seen anyone beat the sh1t out of someone while on it, ive never seen anyone die from it. ive never seen anyone be so stoned they pissed all over themselves or puked all over the place. but you see it all on drink.

pills - ive seen people loved up, talking like their life depended on it, dancing like it was their last dance on earth, i have seen people become paranoid, get panic attacks and chew their jaws out, any other bad effects come from the fact that people aren't told what to do while their on pills. they either drink too much or drink too little, dance way too much and over heat themselves, bad pills come from the fact that they aren't legal, if they were they would be purer... johnny scumbag with his chemistry set in his shed puts rat poison and feckin drain cleaner in there to stick the mdma together.... thats what a bad pill is.

coke - seen people become dickheads on it, but ive also had some great times with some really nice people who were also out of their faces on it.. its not for everyone though and to be honest its not even half strength. for the price you pay for it. again johnny scumbag with his home chemistry set takes out some novacaine and sticks it in doubles the value

mcguiver wrote:

One of the most surreal experiences was trying to hold a guys face together after he'd dropped some l.s.d. to "get into the mood for a concert"... he then proceeded to take a knife to his skin and try peeling it off.

the man is an idiot and shouldn't have been taking acid. you hear about people thinking they can fly, ive taken alot of drugs not once did it make me think i could fly! idiots!

mushies/acid - ive seen lots of things on these most of which i would regard as positive, turned me in to a whole different person more open more relaxed able to look at things from outside the box, ive seen people get paranoid flip out and have flipped out myself (on salvia because i didnt know how to take it and took it in a room full of people), have seen people with flashbacks, its not all roses, all the people who had a bad experience shouldn't have tried it in the first place.

alot of the bad effects of these drugs would be removed if they were legalised, drugs would be purer (stopping alot of deaths caused by drug use) less expensive (stopping johnny coke head from nicking his grans wallet) it would take the whole criminal aspect out of it aswell (stopping tommy the drug lord from being able to go to monaco whenever he wants).

alot of the bad effects of drugs would be removed if people were educated about how to use drugs. i also believe people should be psychologically profiled before they are allowed to take drugs.

DrIndy wrote:

Not so! And closer to home a young fella, bad tripping on LSD used a pair of scissors to cut one of his eyes out. He succeeded to well, he managed to sweep the eyesocket completely clean.

could you try get your facts right please?

That fella was not on LSD he was on DOB an entirely diffrent drug,He was sold DOB pills passed off as MDMA pills (also known as snowballs) DOB takes about 2 hours to come up so when he didnt come up off the first one he dropped another,then another etc. thats why he got so ****ed.

SpAcEd OuT wrote:

could you try get your facts right please?

That fella was not on LSD he was on DOB an entirely diffrent drug,He was sold DOB pills passed off as MDMA pills (also known as snowballs) DOB takes about 2 hours to come up so when he didnt come up off the first one he dropped another,then another etc. thats why he got so ****ed.

Yeah I remember that too.
DOB is nasty stuff that gets lumped in with ecstacy cos it's a small white pill.

In germany when we were raving we used to have our pills tested so we knew what the substance was and were thus pretty sure that it was MDMA and not one of the numerous other substances that posed as E.

The reason for the loose definition of what is in an E goes back to the original craze in Holland where they would change the chemical makeup slightly and create a new substance and sidestep the liberal Dutch law which had to name a substance by its chemical makeup to make it illegal.

So we had originally MDMA, this would be outlawed then they come along with a new substance, the law finds it and then must test and name it and then add it to the illegal list, MBDB gets created and outlawed....while remaining in the methamphetamine family they would dance about the chemicals in the wording of the law.

It was not possible in Holland to say "ecstacy" is illegal the substance ( not just the methamphetamine family of drugs) had to be specifically named and made illegal.
I remember there were double decker buses in Amsterdam selling E by the thousands to punters, a mobile office so to speak, it was all legal or at worst not illegal until the pills were tested and legislated against.
In all the years I dont know anyone that died of E usage and any I did hear of dying were actually majorly polytoxic at the time (coke, E, hash, alcohol, speed) and yet the blame would be placed on E as the headline grabber at the time, ffs these people Overdosed on a major mixture you cant blame E.

To atheist: I once was that guy on the quays, different city. different time but it wasn't easy and drugs dont always kill, I am still here to tell the story, albeit a lot tamer than in my younger, more foolish days.

_raptor_ wrote:

First off, Blub2ka when we're talking about criminality and people funding their own habits you do realise that there are other forms of crime other than robbing????? such as drug dealing as so forth (which would be more attuned to what most drug users in Ireland would do rather than rob/mug)

Any handling with illegal drugs is criminal and as such all users are criminal. In this case where you are not affecting others outside of the scene then it is a morality issue for most users and not a case of lawbreaking as that started when one first took the drug and not when one started to deal......so the person was already a criminal, what does another step matter? ( the user has already decided the law in this case is an ass)

Can you expand on the "drug dealing as (sic) so forth" idea that you introduced there please as I dont know what the "so forth" alludes to as it seems to run out of steam after the drug dealing bit.

If drugs were legalised most of the crime related to them would disappear as it is a self perpetuating industry, the Swiss made this bold step a few years ago and reduced their street crime overnight by 65%. Muggers were no longer mugging, dealers were no longer shooting people and were also out of business as the state delivered the fix daily on the medical card.

Catsmokinpot wrote:

your lucky if you get a gram thats 40% actual cocaine.

I dont know where you are getting your facts from but 40% would be high in any country in the world, 70% is about as high as it gets, after that it is too pure generally and too pastey, it is often about 40% leaving Colombia or whereever.

<edit> I remember the Drobz (german rehab place) telling me that there was on average 4% cocaine in street deals, private can be quite a bit higher.

SherriffBuck wrote:

:rolleyes: Here the thing!! My experience with drugs is mostly enjoyable(use), Ive done it all, copious amounts of resin, grass, speed, cocaine,pills,acid(and srooms), never herion(but I have been known to take metamorphine), various prescription uppers and down, been at it about 18/19years. and probably as long as I live.

But

Legalise them?, are you ****ing mental?////?????

You'd have to be a right dope (lol gettit) to think that legalising any of the above will have a positive effect on our society.
It doesnt matter a **** what stats you throw out(the ones Ive seem above are mostly made up!! IMO), Drugs will get you in the end,,

The first few years(bout 16yo) I started smoking , top form, loved getting canned and chillin out, then srooms and acid (great trips , and a few nasties, your comapany decides the trip!!),
In the mean time I(average joe) gradually start getting worse results in school, going from 6a's(3 honours) in my inter cert, to 4 x Ds, 2 x Cs and a B all lower in my leaving cert,, Truth!!!

then pillls kicked in around the 90s(18yo), top form, great parties, woman(even though Im in a steady relationship with a beautifull woman(ex at this stage) )) hanging out, even making a few dollars, Buy 20 pills, sell 15 , neck the other 5 and maybe have a score for your truly at the end of the night.
Meanwhile Im doing -and- dropping out of a fas course(couldnt get into college with the crap results) because I dont really give a **** about anything not thursday to sunday nights.

Pills start getting crap(£20 pills savage ,as they get cheaper , (worse comedown), start getting into speed, cheap, and more acceptable to be a waffler in a pub than some desperate dan scagger on a feed of pills,
Meantime I get crappy jobs(customer servise, warehouses etc) none lasting more that 4/5 months.
Even getting to the stage were I am smoking a few before work(lunchtime etc), maybe a few lines on a thursday and fri in work to kick off things.
Couple of nasty things happen, death, relationship failures etc, snotrting probably 1/4 to 1/2 ounce a week, selling a bar to support activities, downward spiral for a year, mental__ no fun had

4/5 years ago I cop on, dont do anything for about a year, get decent job, do a few night courses, find lovely bird. things going good

The coke starts to rear its head, gradually going from a few lines to stay sharp out on a saturday night to 4 - 5 bags at the weekend, relationship gone down the swanny(she was the one, no chance again), job is suffering, But I AM HAVING A GOOD TIME at the weekend.

Now still at the coke, have a girlfriend(same scene, likes the odd bump), but she is as bad as me, so mostly my life is about getting stoned and caked at the weekend, (even a night during the week, depending on payday, bills etc),she had an abortion recently because we could never take care of a kid, and I would really love to be a father(tell myself it doesnt matter, but it does) dont think I will go forward in my job and dont really care..

I cant say I havnt enjoyed the drugs i have taken,, but believe me my life would be an awfull lot better without them(if I couldnt get them)

If I ever have kids I would cut my legs off to keep them away from drugs, this is my point...

Drugs are BAD.............. and all your made up statistics will not diminish the reality of taking them, that goes for drink,hash, ampetamines, all of them

I didn't make anything up, I had similar experiences to yourself but I ended up injecting, thing was I was always at the top of whatever I did, never had any problems professionally, although drink did threaten a job I had once.

What you are saying is that you cant handle them, that does not mean that they are all bad, an addict is an addict I have noticed over time that the substance does not really matter, in fact it does not even have to involve substances, I have seen gamblers with eyes wider and wilder than someone on a ten day coke binge.
Point is you cant really save people from themselves they what they want not matter the law, you want to legislate against anything harmful or just things that are culturally unacceptable, where do you draw the line? If things were legalised in a regulated and controlled manner then you would have healthier addicts and a lot more controlled addicts than some of the loons you see running around on the streets on a constant cycle of rohypnol, heroin and coke, never sleeping for weeks and shooting up into scabby arms and their groins because all other veins have collapsed. Luckily enough during my period I didn't lose it completely and retained enough perspective to see the difference between them and me. The first time that I took cash to add to my already fat wallet to pay for smack I decided it was time for me to stop, because I was becoming too like them.
Legalisation will go a long way to ease the suffering of those very ill people who dont deserve shunning because of their illness, help if proferred should at least be on terms acceptable to an addict, whose only crime is to harm himself ( the damnage to others follows once the spirit is already burned out from the illness ) for it to have any measure of success.

_raptor_ wrote:

I think that there would be VERY FEW if any people who've been doing drugs for 10 years or more who'd say legalise drugs

I would, for the reasons outlined above.

SherriffBuck wrote:

:rolleyes: Here the thing!! My experience with drugs is mostly enjoyable(use), Ive done it all, copious amounts of resin, grass, speed, cocaine,pills,acid(and srooms), never herion(but I have been known to take metamorphine), various prescription uppers and down, been at it about 18/19years. and probably as long as I live.

But

Legalise them?, are you ****ing mental?////?????

You'd have to be a right dope (lol gettit) to think that legalising any of the above will have a positive effect on our society.
It doesnt matter a **** what stats you throw out(the ones Ive seem above are mostly made up!! IMO), Drugs will get you in the end,,

The first few years(bout 16yo) I started smoking , top form, loved getting canned and chillin out, then srooms and acid (great trips , and a few nasties, your comapany decides the trip!!),
In the mean time I(average joe) gradually start getting worse results in school, going from 6a's(3 honours) in my inter cert, to 4 x Ds, 2 x Cs and a B all lower in my leaving cert,, Truth!!!

then pillls kicked in around the 90s(18yo), top form, great parties, woman(even though Im in a steady relationship with a beautifull woman(ex at this stage) )) hanging out, even making a few dollars, Buy 20 pills, sell 15 , neck the other 5 and maybe have a score for your truly at the end of the night.
Meanwhile Im doing -and- dropping out of a fas course(couldnt get into college with the crap results) because I dont really give a **** about anything not thursday to sunday nights.

Pills start getting crap(£20 pills savage ,as they get cheaper , (worse comedown), start getting into speed, cheap, and more acceptable to be a waffler in a pub than some desperate dan scagger on a feed of pills,
Meantime I get crappy jobs(customer servise, warehouses etc) none lasting more that 4/5 months.
Even getting to the stage were I am smoking a few before work(lunchtime etc), maybe a few lines on a thursday and fri in work to kick off things.
Couple of nasty things happen, death, relationship failures etc, snotrting probably 1/4 to 1/2 ounce a week, selling a bar to support activities, downward spiral for a year, mental__ no fun had

4/5 years ago I cop on, dont do anything for about a year, get decent job, do a few night courses, find lovely bird. things going good

The coke starts to rear its head, gradually going from a few lines to stay sharp out on a saturday night to 4 - 5 bags at the weekend, relationship gone down the swanny(she was the one, no chance again), job is suffering, But I AM HAVING A GOOD TIME at the weekend.

Now still at the coke, have a girlfriend(same scene, likes the odd bump), but she is as bad as me, so mostly my life is about getting stoned and caked at the weekend, (even a night during the week, depending on payday, bills etc),she had an abortion recently because we could never take care of a kid, and I would really love to be a father(tell myself it doesnt matter, but it does) dont think I will go forward in my job and dont really care..

I cant say I havnt enjoyed the drugs i have taken,, but believe me my life would be an awfull lot better without them(if I couldnt get them)

If I ever have kids I would cut my legs off to keep them away from drugs, this is my point...

Drugs are BAD.............. and all your made up statistics will not diminish the reality of taking them, that goes for drink,hash, ampetamines, all of them

well dude sorry for all your troubles but how does that compare to me? ive been smokin since i was 14/15 been doin harder now for a good few years, drugs ruin lives no-one denies that. drink, cigarettes, speed, coke, pills whatever your poison, but how does you or any joe sub ****ing yourself up on em mean i shouldn't be able to do em? for every idiot that ****ed themself up on em ill show you one that had a good time.. kept their job, didn't shoot anyone, didn't beat anyone, didn't rob anyone, didn't rape anyone, laughed their asses off! and went about their day...(little birdy named bill hicks said something along those lines)

my mother was an alcoholic, i know first hand how addiction can take hold of you. when i was living in london with her i used to walk the streets at night looking for her, in every pub.... all the bartenders knew my name, they used to give me a free packet of crisps and talk to me for a while before i went on to the next pub, dude we all have a ****ty time of it, i don't blame drink for my mother being the way she was. i blame what drove her to drink. obviously the drink didn't help anything, but its not the reason why it happened. same as with any other drug.

its only weak people who get addicted to stuff and im not a weak person.

as far as im concerned any you can talk to me about addiction and people getting their lives ruined all you like, and you can also say i made up these statistics about drink or about coke or whatever and you can go on blaming all of your problems on drugs when its you whos to blame, letting yourself do the things you've done in your life. so why should everyone stay away from them because you had a rough time of it?

when i bring up my kids im gonna tell em straight. listen, its your life im just telling you how it is so if you do take them, (and i cant stop you from taking them) you dont get ****ed up by not knowing enough about what ur up against. there are people who have had good times, there are people who have had bad times, im not encouraging you but if you make the decision here are the consequences.

i think if people are educated enough about it they will make the right decisions instead of being led blind, eg. being told drugs are dirty, drugs are evil, you dont need to know anything about them just stay away from them.... weather you say that or not people are going to do them. so better hear the right information than no information.