Drug Abuse

Catsmokinpot

_raptor_ wrote:

I mean lets face it with the stroke of a pen the government could cut the amount of smokers in this country by at least 2 thirds but why dont they???? (money) but anyway this discussion isn't about money/government so back on topic

you just proved the point that making drugs illegal is stupid because the government obviously doesnt give a monkeys about our well being, so why should we listen to them? :rolleyes:

SpAcEd OuT

DrIndy wrote:

Not so! And closer to home a young fella, bad tripping on LSD used a pair of scissors to cut one of his eyes out. He succeeded to well, he managed to sweep the eyesocket completely clean.

could you try get your facts right please?

That fella was not on LSD he was on DOB an entirely diffrent drug,He was sold DOB pills passed off as MDMA pills (also known as snowballs) DOB takes about 2 hours to come up so when he didnt come up off the first one he dropped another,then another etc. thats why he got so ****ed.

Catsmokinpot

SpAcEd OuT wrote:

could you try get your facts right please?

That fella was not on LSD he was on DOB an entirely diffrent drug,He was sold DOB pills passed off as MDMA pills (also known as snowballs) DOB takes about 2 hours to come up so when he didnt come up off the first one he dropped another,then another etc. thats why he got so ****ed.

them snowballs are mental i wasnt warned when i tookem mate of mine took 3 of em thinkin they were pills.. he wasnt too happy either.

Blub2k4

SpAcEd OuT wrote:

could you try get your facts right please?

That fella was not on LSD he was on DOB an entirely diffrent drug,He was sold DOB pills passed off as MDMA pills (also known as snowballs) DOB takes about 2 hours to come up so when he didnt come up off the first one he dropped another,then another etc. thats why he got so ****ed.

Yeah I remember that too.
DOB is nasty stuff that gets lumped in with ecstacy cos it's a small white pill.

In germany when we were raving we used to have our pills tested so we knew what the substance was and were thus pretty sure that it was MDMA and not one of the numerous other substances that posed as E.

The reason for the loose definition of what is in an E goes back to the original craze in Holland where they would change the chemical makeup slightly and create a new substance and sidestep the liberal Dutch law which had to name a substance by its chemical makeup to make it illegal.

So we had originally MDMA, this would be outlawed then they come along with a new substance, the law finds it and then must test and name it and then add it to the illegal list, MBDB gets created and outlawed....while remaining in the methamphetamine family they would dance about the chemicals in the wording of the law.

It was not possible in Holland to say "ecstacy" is illegal the substance ( not just the methamphetamine family of drugs) had to be specifically named and made illegal.
I remember there were double decker buses in Amsterdam selling E by the thousands to punters, a mobile office so to speak, it was all legal or at worst not illegal until the pills were tested and legislated against.
In all the years I dont know anyone that died of E usage and any I did hear of dying were actually majorly polytoxic at the time (coke, E, hash, alcohol, speed) and yet the blame would be placed on E as the headline grabber at the time, ffs these people Overdosed on a major mixture you cant blame E.

To atheist: I once was that guy on the quays, different city. different time but it wasn't easy and drugs dont always kill, I am still here to tell the story, albeit a lot tamer than in my younger, more foolish days.

miju

First off, Blub2ka when we're talking about criminality and people funding their own habits you do realise that there are other forms of crime other than robbing????? such as drug dealing as so forth (which would be more attuned to what most drug users in Ireland would do rather than rob/mug)

Catsmokinpot wrote:

what is a typical drug user? people from all walks of life take drugs.. there is no typical drug user, their is no typical response either. the thing that most of you typical anti-drugs crusaders seem to miss is alcohol and cigarettes.

For a start regarding pureity of drugs it's usually when a drug is pure is when someone dies from it (with the exceptance of hash and so forth).

I'm not a typical anti-drug crusader (didnt know there was such thing [sic]) like I said at the start I've pretty much done most drugs since I started using when I was 15-16 (i'm now 23). Over that course of time I've seen many, MANY people succumb to them (some of them my closest friends) they were not all weak people either it just slowly crept up on them.

Also, I never said there was a typical drug user, what I said was it's a typical response from a drug user and I know I'm right again from all the time of doing drugs and having conversations about drugs I've heard the same TYPICAL response time and time again from people sure jaysis I used to even say the same thing.

Blub2k4

_raptor_ wrote:

First off, Blub2ka when we're talking about criminality and people funding their own habits you do realise that there are other forms of crime other than robbing????? such as drug dealing as so forth (which would be more attuned to what most drug users in Ireland would do rather than rob/mug)

Any handling with illegal drugs is criminal and as such all users are criminal. In this case where you are not affecting others outside of the scene then it is a morality issue for most users and not a case of lawbreaking as that started when one first took the drug and not when one started to deal......so the person was already a criminal, what does another step matter? ( the user has already decided the law in this case is an ass)

Can you expand on the "drug dealing as (sic) so forth" idea that you introduced there please as I dont know what the "so forth" alludes to as it seems to run out of steam after the drug dealing bit.

If drugs were legalised most of the crime related to them would disappear as it is a self perpetuating industry, the Swiss made this bold step a few years ago and reduced their street crime overnight by 65%. Muggers were no longer mugging, dealers were no longer shooting people and were also out of business as the state delivered the fix daily on the medical card.

Catsmokinpot

_raptor_ wrote:

For a start regarding pureity of drugs it's usually when a drug is pure is when someone dies from it (with the exceptance of hash and so forth).

I'm not a typical anti-drug crusader (didnt know there was such thing [sic]) like I said at the start I've pretty much done most drugs since I started using when I was 15-16 (i'm now 23). Over that course of time I've seen many, MANY people succumb to them (some of them my closest friends) they were not all weak people either it just slowly crept up on them.

Also, I never said there was a typical drug user, what I said was it's a typical response from a drug user and I know I'm right again from all the time of doing drugs and having conversations about drugs I've heard the same TYPICAL response time and time again from people sure jaysis I used to even say the same thing.

have you ever tried pure mdma? i have and it can't kill you. you know why they mix sh1t with mdma? to dilute it and also as a coagulant because mdma crystals dont stay together. used to know someone who made them.. he wasnt an asshole though he put safe stuff in there, johnny scumbag chemist puts all sorts of sh1t in there, like ratpoison and other crap you dont know what ur getting and it can be really bad for you.

crack is cocaine thats been through a refining process, either with amonia or baking powder and that can kill, heroine is refined opium, that can kill, again i said earlier your a fúckin waster if you try either in my book.

but im not talking about crack, im talking about cocaine in ireland they dilute cocaine with baking powder, novacaine and other sh1t, your lucky if you get a gram thats 40% actual cocaine.

one of my mates had speed mixed with crushedup lightbulbs from johnny fúckin scumsucking chemists little home made set and ended up in hospital..... making drugs legal will stop johnny chemist from doing all this bad **** to people...

same with dope the ammount of sh1te mixed with the soap bar we get is stupid...

the fact is people are going to do drugs weather they are legal or not, i know the same ammount of people who have had bad experiences on drugs as people that have had good, and i know more people who have had a bad experience on alcohol than any other drug.

making them legal takes the money out of johnny chemists pocket and in to someone who is capable of making quality, inexpensive drugs that you aren't getting ripped off with and that aren't going to kill you

it would take the criminality out of it free up the prisons for people who are actually hurting other people, dealing is only a crime if the law says so....

you may have seen people succum to drug abuse, but as i said already they shouldnt be doing them in the first place....

one of my best mates takes more drugs than anyone i know, hes thirdyear in college studying music he passed with honours this year. another is doing multimedia just in to thirdyear now flying through college. i myself am not in college but i have a fulltime job... and dabble a little, still have my job going to college next year. i know ones from the other side of the spectrum too scumbags they are, but i know alot of drunks too.

and about the typical drug user thing, i didnt explain myself properly, i should have said, how can there be a typical response from a drug user, when there is no typical drug user.... and in fairness now you were saying it like we're all social work cases. we're not. saying that is treating everyone like their children and this is where drug misuse stems from improper education. treating people like they're children, "don't touch those dirty drugs they're bad" and when they do they don't know what to do and they get ****ed up on them...

Blub2k4

Catsmokinpot wrote:

your lucky if you get a gram thats 40% actual cocaine.

I dont know where you are getting your facts from but 40% would be high in any country in the world, 70% is about as high as it gets, after that it is too pure generally and too pastey, it is often about 40% leaving Colombia or whereever.

<edit> I remember the Drobz (german rehab place) telling me that there was on average 4% cocaine in street deals, private can be quite a bit higher.

SherriffBuck

:rolleyes: Here the thing!! My experience with drugs is mostly enjoyable(use), Ive done it all, copious amounts of resin, grass, speed, cocaine,pills,acid(and srooms), never herion(but I have been known to take metamorphine), various prescription uppers and down, been at it about 18/19years. and probably as long as I live.

But

Legalise them?, are you ****ing mental?////?????

You'd have to be a right dope (lol gettit) to think that legalising any of the above will have a positive effect on our society.
It doesnt matter a **** what stats you throw out(the ones Ive seem above are mostly made up!! IMO), Drugs will get you in the end,,

The first few years(bout 16yo) I started smoking , top form, loved getting canned and chillin out, then srooms and acid (great trips , and a few nasties, your comapany decides the trip!!),
In the mean time I(average joe) gradually start getting worse results in school, going from 6a's(3 honours) in my inter cert, to 4 x Ds, 2 x Cs and a B all lower in my leaving cert,, Truth!!!

then pillls kicked in around the 90s(18yo), top form, great parties, woman(even though Im in a steady relationship with a beautifull woman(ex at this stage) )) hanging out, even making a few dollars, Buy 20 pills, sell 15 , neck the other 5 and maybe have a score for your truly at the end of the night.
Meanwhile Im doing -and- dropping out of a fas course(couldnt get into college with the crap results) because I dont really give a **** about anything not thursday to sunday nights.

Pills start getting crap(£20 pills savage ,as they get cheaper , (worse comedown), start getting into speed, cheap, and more acceptable to be a waffler in a pub than some desperate dan scagger on a feed of pills,
Meantime I get crappy jobs(customer servise, warehouses etc) none lasting more that 4/5 months.
Even getting to the stage were I am smoking a few before work(lunchtime etc), maybe a few lines on a thursday and fri in work to kick off things.
Couple of nasty things happen, death, relationship failures etc, snotrting probably 1/4 to 1/2 ounce a week, selling a bar to support activities, downward spiral for a year, mental__ no fun had

4/5 years ago I cop on, dont do anything for about a year, get decent job, do a few night courses, find lovely bird. things going good

The coke starts to rear its head, gradually going from a few lines to stay sharp out on a saturday night to 4 - 5 bags at the weekend, relationship gone down the swanny(she was the one, no chance again), job is suffering, But I AM HAVING A GOOD TIME at the weekend.

Now still at the coke, have a girlfriend(same scene, likes the odd bump), but she is as bad as me, so mostly my life is about getting stoned and caked at the weekend, (even a night during the week, depending on payday, bills etc),she had an abortion recently because we could never take care of a kid, and I would really love to be a father(tell myself it doesnt matter, but it does) dont think I will go forward in my job and dont really care..

I cant say I havnt enjoyed the drugs i have taken,, but believe me my life would be an awfull lot better without them(if I couldnt get them)

If I ever have kids I would cut my legs off to keep them away from drugs, this is my point...

Drugs are BAD.............. and all your made up statistics will not diminish the reality of taking them, that goes for drink,hash, ampetamines, all of them

Dades

Blub2k4 wrote:

To atheist: I once was that guy on the quays, different city. different time but it wasn't easy and drugs dont always kill, I am still here to tell the story, albeit a lot tamer than in my younger, more foolish days.

Fair balls to you then, Blub.
It kills me to see these people and their young kids living that life every day.

Eurorunner

For a start regarding pureity of drugs it's usually when a drug is pure is when someone dies from it (with the exceptance of hash and so forth).

Catsmokinpot's already pulled you up on this - but I will too just to drive the point home. This is not a qualified statement - its something you believe based probably on something you read in the tabloid press.
A big proportion of drug-related deaths can be attributed to all sorts of other shíte being mixed up with what was assumed to be a pure substance.

@sheriffBuck - I wouldnt challenge the integrity of your story but in the long-term there can't be any disadvantage from legalisation.

Resources that are currently focused on prohibiting drugs can be redeployed to education with regard to the use of drugs. There would be more credibility in the info that was put out by the authorities if this stance was taken rather than the misinformation thats pushed out by the powers that be at the moment.
The criminal elements would be hit where it hurts (financially). Depending upon implementation, there could be a reduction in street crime - a benefit that everyone would share.
Furthermore, as part of the blinkered view on new substances, there has been prohibition in many countries of research into the benefits of certain drugs in the fields of mental health, etc.

Drugs are used and drugs are abused every day of the week - they have been for years and they will be for an eternity to come. In many of the less favourable stories, it is underlying factors in the individuals life rather than the drugs themselves that are the root cause of the abuse.

rubadub

DrIndy wrote:

Not so! And closer to home a young fella, bad tripping on LSD used a pair of scissors to cut one of his eyes out. He succeeded to well, he managed to sweep the eyesocket completely clean.

I am not saying it was bull****, just that I have seen it on urban myth websites. The scooping out of eyes is also apparently very popular with LSD users, as is thinking you can fly and jumping out windows, both are mentioned on urban myth sites.

Somebody may know the figure but I think it is well over 50% of people that commit suicide were drinking before it. You never hear any complaint about that though "oh he was building up courage" or "they were having one last enjoyment before they killed themselves". Yet if somebody tops themselves on illegal drugs it is nice and convenient for families and doctors to say they were out of their mind and didnt know what they were doing. Take note suicidal people, drop some acid and your mother won't be as miserable for the rest of her life, wondering what she did wrong...

rubadub

Eurorunner wrote:

A big proportion of drug-related deaths can be attributed to all sorts of other shíte being mixed up with what was assumed to be a pure substance.

That is true. Various contaminants/fillers are far more harmful than the drug itself. But when a real overdose does occur it is often due to the user being so used to getting weak, cut/diluted drugs that they take their usual 1gram expecting the usual 10% of actual heroin to be in it.

miju

SherriffBuck wrote:

:rolleyes: Here the thing!! My experience with drugs is mostly enjoyable(use), Ive done it all, copious amounts of resin, grass, speed, cocaine,pills,acid(and srooms), never herion(but I have been known to take metamorphine), various prescription uppers and down, been at it about 18/19years. and probably as long as I live.

But

Legalise them?, are you ****ing mental?////?????

You'd have to be a right dope (lol gettit) to think that legalising any of the above will have a positive effect on our society.
It doesnt matter a **** what stats you throw out(the ones Ive seem above are mostly made up!! IMO), Drugs will get you in the end,,

The first few years(bout 16yo) I started smoking , top form, loved getting canned and chillin out, then srooms and acid (great trips , and a few nasties, your comapany decides the trip!!),
In the mean time I(average joe) gradually start getting worse results in school, going from 6a's(3 honours) in my inter cert, to 4 x Ds, 2 x Cs and a B all lower in my leaving cert,, Truth!!!

then pillls kicked in around the 90s(18yo), top form, great parties, woman(even though Im in a steady relationship with a beautifull woman(ex at this stage) )) hanging out, even making a few dollars, Buy 20 pills, sell 15 , neck the other 5 and maybe have a score for your truly at the end of the night.
Meanwhile Im doing -and- dropping out of a fas course(couldnt get into college with the crap results) because I dont really give a **** about anything not thursday to sunday nights.

Pills start getting crap(£20 pills savage ,as they get cheaper , (worse comedown), start getting into speed, cheap, and more acceptable to be a waffler in a pub than some desperate dan scagger on a feed of pills,
Meantime I get crappy jobs(customer servise, warehouses etc) none lasting more that 4/5 months.
Even getting to the stage were I am smoking a few before work(lunchtime etc), maybe a few lines on a thursday and fri in work to kick off things.
Couple of nasty things happen, death, relationship failures etc, snotrting probably 1/4 to 1/2 ounce a week, selling a bar to support activities, downward spiral for a year, mental__ no fun had

4/5 years ago I cop on, dont do anything for about a year, get decent job, do a few night courses, find lovely bird. things going good

The coke starts to rear its head, gradually going from a few lines to stay sharp out on a saturday night to 4 - 5 bags at the weekend, relationship gone down the swanny(she was the one, no chance again), job is suffering, But I AM HAVING A GOOD TIME at the weekend.

Now still at the coke, have a girlfriend(same scene, likes the odd bump), but she is as bad as me, so mostly my life is about getting stoned and caked at the weekend, (even a night during the week, depending on payday, bills etc),she had an abortion recently because we could never take care of a kid, and I would really love to be a father(tell myself it doesnt matter, but it does) dont think I will go forward in my job and dont really care..

I cant say I havnt enjoyed the drugs i have taken,, but believe me my life would be an awfull lot better without them(if I couldnt get them)

If I ever have kids I would cut my legs off to keep them away from drugs, this is my point...

Drugs are BAD.............. and all your made up statistics will not diminish the reality of taking them, that goes for drink,hash, ampetamines, all of them

Not word for word but this is a very similiar experience to me until I stopped completely and jaysis im finding life is a drug all on its own and im getting somewhere with my life now.

anyways, this is what i was trying to get at, IMO theres the noobs (in the loosest sense of the word) doing drugs for couple of years that think drugs are great and then theres people like me and Sherrif who have been around them a VERY long time and can see the LONG TERM damage they do.

I think that there would be VERY FEW if any people who've been doing drugs for 10 years or more who'd say legalise drugs

Eurorunner wrote:

This is not a qualified statement - its something you believe based probably on something you read in the tabloid press.

listen eurorunner like i already said ive been around drugs since i was 16 (im 23 now remember so dont ****ing patronise me) i know drugs and have pretty much done em all except for the herion and LSD as a matter of fact ive seen people take it pure and die from it TWICE. ive even seen a dealer in our area been given pure coke (was told it was mixed) and when he snorted it he snuffed it (if you excuse the pun)

Eurorunner

_raptor_ wrote:

listen eurorunner like i already said ive been around drugs since i was 16 (im 23 now remember so dont ****ing patronise me) i know drugs and have pretty much done em all except for the herion and LSD as a matter of fact ive seen people take it pure and die from it TWICE. ive even seen a dealer in our area been given pure coke (was told it was mixed) and when he snorted it he snuffed it (if you excuse the pun)

Fair enough. I think rubadub covered it well in the post above yours.

Blub2k4

SherriffBuck wrote:

:rolleyes: Here the thing!! My experience with drugs is mostly enjoyable(use), Ive done it all, copious amounts of resin, grass, speed, cocaine,pills,acid(and srooms), never herion(but I have been known to take metamorphine), various prescription uppers and down, been at it about 18/19years. and probably as long as I live.

But

Legalise them?, are you ****ing mental?////?????

You'd have to be a right dope (lol gettit) to think that legalising any of the above will have a positive effect on our society.
It doesnt matter a **** what stats you throw out(the ones Ive seem above are mostly made up!! IMO), Drugs will get you in the end,,

The first few years(bout 16yo) I started smoking , top form, loved getting canned and chillin out, then srooms and acid (great trips , and a few nasties, your comapany decides the trip!!),
In the mean time I(average joe) gradually start getting worse results in school, going from 6a's(3 honours) in my inter cert, to 4 x Ds, 2 x Cs and a B all lower in my leaving cert,, Truth!!!

then pillls kicked in around the 90s(18yo), top form, great parties, woman(even though Im in a steady relationship with a beautifull woman(ex at this stage) )) hanging out, even making a few dollars, Buy 20 pills, sell 15 , neck the other 5 and maybe have a score for your truly at the end of the night.
Meanwhile Im doing -and- dropping out of a fas course(couldnt get into college with the crap results) because I dont really give a **** about anything not thursday to sunday nights.

Pills start getting crap(£20 pills savage ,as they get cheaper , (worse comedown), start getting into speed, cheap, and more acceptable to be a waffler in a pub than some desperate dan scagger on a feed of pills,
Meantime I get crappy jobs(customer servise, warehouses etc) none lasting more that 4/5 months.
Even getting to the stage were I am smoking a few before work(lunchtime etc), maybe a few lines on a thursday and fri in work to kick off things.
Couple of nasty things happen, death, relationship failures etc, snotrting probably 1/4 to 1/2 ounce a week, selling a bar to support activities, downward spiral for a year, mental__ no fun had

4/5 years ago I cop on, dont do anything for about a year, get decent job, do a few night courses, find lovely bird. things going good

The coke starts to rear its head, gradually going from a few lines to stay sharp out on a saturday night to 4 - 5 bags at the weekend, relationship gone down the swanny(she was the one, no chance again), job is suffering, But I AM HAVING A GOOD TIME at the weekend.

Now still at the coke, have a girlfriend(same scene, likes the odd bump), but she is as bad as me, so mostly my life is about getting stoned and caked at the weekend, (even a night during the week, depending on payday, bills etc),she had an abortion recently because we could never take care of a kid, and I would really love to be a father(tell myself it doesnt matter, but it does) dont think I will go forward in my job and dont really care..

I cant say I havnt enjoyed the drugs i have taken,, but believe me my life would be an awfull lot better without them(if I couldnt get them)

If I ever have kids I would cut my legs off to keep them away from drugs, this is my point...

Drugs are BAD.............. and all your made up statistics will not diminish the reality of taking them, that goes for drink,hash, ampetamines, all of them

I didn't make anything up, I had similar experiences to yourself but I ended up injecting, thing was I was always at the top of whatever I did, never had any problems professionally, although drink did threaten a job I had once.

What you are saying is that you cant handle them, that does not mean that they are all bad, an addict is an addict I have noticed over time that the substance does not really matter, in fact it does not even have to involve substances, I have seen gamblers with eyes wider and wilder than someone on a ten day coke binge.
Point is you cant really save people from themselves they what they want not matter the law, you want to legislate against anything harmful or just things that are culturally unacceptable, where do you draw the line? If things were legalised in a regulated and controlled manner then you would have healthier addicts and a lot more controlled addicts than some of the loons you see running around on the streets on a constant cycle of rohypnol, heroin and coke, never sleeping for weeks and shooting up into scabby arms and their groins because all other veins have collapsed. Luckily enough during my period I didn't lose it completely and retained enough perspective to see the difference between them and me. The first time that I took cash to add to my already fat wallet to pay for smack I decided it was time for me to stop, because I was becoming too like them.
Legalisation will go a long way to ease the suffering of those very ill people who dont deserve shunning because of their illness, help if proferred should at least be on terms acceptable to an addict, whose only crime is to harm himself ( the damnage to others follows once the spirit is already burned out from the illness ) for it to have any measure of success.

_raptor_ wrote:

I think that there would be VERY FEW if any people who've been doing drugs for 10 years or more who'd say legalise drugs

I would, for the reasons outlined above.

rubadub

_raptor_ wrote:

I think that there would be VERY FEW if any people who've been doing drugs for 10 years or more who'd say legalise drugs

I have used drugs for over 10 years and would certainly like to see them legalised, as would most people I know.

If these people you speak of are against legalisation of previously legal drugs, then it should follow that they would want currently legal drugs to be made illegal too. I see VERY FEW people calling for alcohol to be made illegal.

All these rumours of "I took xyz and was messed up", or "injecting xyz messed up my life" is all hearsay, you are buying unknown products from a stranger who got them from god knows where, produced by a backstreet chemist who doesnt give a damn about the end user, nobody is going to sue theml if things go wrong. Tests in the 70's on magic mushrooms showed that the vast majority were common store shrooms, laced with all sorts of crap. Even alcohol producers here do not have to put the ingredients on their bottles, they are loaded with all sorts of crap, usually to mask the taste of the poorly produced spirits. All this triple filter bull****, they actually are bragging about what a poor spirit they produced, loaded with such nasty smelling by-products that it must be carbon filtered before it is palatable.

I say make your own to be sure of quality.

www.homedistiller.org
www.shroomery.org
www.overgrow.com

Catsmokinpot

SherriffBuck wrote:

:rolleyes: Here the thing!! My experience with drugs is mostly enjoyable(use), Ive done it all, copious amounts of resin, grass, speed, cocaine,pills,acid(and srooms), never herion(but I have been known to take metamorphine), various prescription uppers and down, been at it about 18/19years. and probably as long as I live.

But

Legalise them?, are you ****ing mental?////?????

You'd have to be a right dope (lol gettit) to think that legalising any of the above will have a positive effect on our society.
It doesnt matter a **** what stats you throw out(the ones Ive seem above are mostly made up!! IMO), Drugs will get you in the end,,

The first few years(bout 16yo) I started smoking , top form, loved getting canned and chillin out, then srooms and acid (great trips , and a few nasties, your comapany decides the trip!!),
In the mean time I(average joe) gradually start getting worse results in school, going from 6a's(3 honours) in my inter cert, to 4 x Ds, 2 x Cs and a B all lower in my leaving cert,, Truth!!!

then pillls kicked in around the 90s(18yo), top form, great parties, woman(even though Im in a steady relationship with a beautifull woman(ex at this stage) )) hanging out, even making a few dollars, Buy 20 pills, sell 15 , neck the other 5 and maybe have a score for your truly at the end of the night.
Meanwhile Im doing -and- dropping out of a fas course(couldnt get into college with the crap results) because I dont really give a **** about anything not thursday to sunday nights.

Pills start getting crap(£20 pills savage ,as they get cheaper , (worse comedown), start getting into speed, cheap, and more acceptable to be a waffler in a pub than some desperate dan scagger on a feed of pills,
Meantime I get crappy jobs(customer servise, warehouses etc) none lasting more that 4/5 months.
Even getting to the stage were I am smoking a few before work(lunchtime etc), maybe a few lines on a thursday and fri in work to kick off things.
Couple of nasty things happen, death, relationship failures etc, snotrting probably 1/4 to 1/2 ounce a week, selling a bar to support activities, downward spiral for a year, mental__ no fun had

4/5 years ago I cop on, dont do anything for about a year, get decent job, do a few night courses, find lovely bird. things going good

The coke starts to rear its head, gradually going from a few lines to stay sharp out on a saturday night to 4 - 5 bags at the weekend, relationship gone down the swanny(she was the one, no chance again), job is suffering, But I AM HAVING A GOOD TIME at the weekend.

Now still at the coke, have a girlfriend(same scene, likes the odd bump), but she is as bad as me, so mostly my life is about getting stoned and caked at the weekend, (even a night during the week, depending on payday, bills etc),she had an abortion recently because we could never take care of a kid, and I would really love to be a father(tell myself it doesnt matter, but it does) dont think I will go forward in my job and dont really care..

I cant say I havnt enjoyed the drugs i have taken,, but believe me my life would be an awfull lot better without them(if I couldnt get them)

If I ever have kids I would cut my legs off to keep them away from drugs, this is my point...

Drugs are BAD.............. and all your made up statistics will not diminish the reality of taking them, that goes for drink,hash, ampetamines, all of them

well dude sorry for all your troubles but how does that compare to me? ive been smokin since i was 14/15 been doin harder now for a good few years, drugs ruin lives no-one denies that. drink, cigarettes, speed, coke, pills whatever your poison, but how does you or any joe sub ****ing yourself up on em mean i shouldn't be able to do em? for every idiot that ****ed themself up on em ill show you one that had a good time.. kept their job, didn't shoot anyone, didn't beat anyone, didn't rob anyone, didn't rape anyone, laughed their asses off! and went about their day...(little birdy named bill hicks said something along those lines)

my mother was an alcoholic, i know first hand how addiction can take hold of you. when i was living in london with her i used to walk the streets at night looking for her, in every pub.... all the bartenders knew my name, they used to give me a free packet of crisps and talk to me for a while before i went on to the next pub, dude we all have a ****ty time of it, i don't blame drink for my mother being the way she was. i blame what drove her to drink. obviously the drink didn't help anything, but its not the reason why it happened. same as with any other drug.

its only weak people who get addicted to stuff and im not a weak person.

as far as im concerned any you can talk to me about addiction and people getting their lives ruined all you like, and you can also say i made up these statistics about drink or about coke or whatever and you can go on blaming all of your problems on drugs when its you whos to blame, letting yourself do the things you've done in your life. so why should everyone stay away from them because you had a rough time of it?

when i bring up my kids im gonna tell em straight. listen, its your life im just telling you how it is so if you do take them, (and i cant stop you from taking them) you dont get ****ed up by not knowing enough about what ur up against. there are people who have had good times, there are people who have had bad times, im not encouraging you but if you make the decision here are the consequences.

i think if people are educated enough about it they will make the right decisions instead of being led blind, eg. being told drugs are dirty, drugs are evil, you dont need to know anything about them just stay away from them.... weather you say that or not people are going to do them. so better hear the right information than no information.

Catsmokinpot

_raptor_ wrote:

listen eurorunner like i already said ive been around drugs since i was 16 (im 23 now remember so dont ****ing patronise me) i know drugs and have pretty much done em all except for the herion and LSD as a matter of fact ive seen people take it pure and die from it TWICE. ive even seen a dealer in our area been given pure coke (was told it was mixed) and when he snorted it he snuffed it (if you excuse the pun)

thanks yet again for proving my point some random johnny fúckin drug dealer gave someone some fúcked up sh1t and they died from it. can you see what ur saying, if they were legalised drugs. that sort of **** wouldn't happen youd be cutting mortality rates from drugs in half... you'd be taking money out of asshole drugdealers pockets.

_raptor_ wrote:

I think that there would be VERY FEW if any people who've been doing drugs for 10 years or more who'd say legalise drugs

i do and yes they would

miju

THE WORLD HEALTH ORGANISATION REPORT ON THE LEGALISATION OF CANNABIS IN AMSTERDAM wrote:

The World Health Organization has concluded that cannabis, when smoked, is twice as carcinogenic as tobacco.(1) It causes carcinoma of the lungs, larynx, mouth, and oesophagus as well as other chronic pulmonary diseases,(2) with evidence of a dose-response relation.(3) These carcinomas appear earlier than cancers that are purely the result of tobacco smoking. Cannabis increases the risk of death in people with heart disease.(4) Furthermore, cannabis is now 10 times as pure as it was 20 years ago, which points to potentially greater health risks than earlier research has identified.(5)

In vulnerable individuals, cannabis precipitates schizophrenia and other psychotic disorders and worsens their course. (2, 6) It is worth remembering that about 15% of schizophrenic patients commit suicide. This is not to mention other clear adverse psychological effects of cannabis, including depression, anxiety, and violent behaviour.(6) Cannabis has up to 60 psychoactive ingredients, so it is hardly surprising that it is bad for the mental health of many vulnerable people.

Apart from death, cannabis also causes dependence in about 10% of users and in 50-90% of regular users.(2) The number of cannabis users seeking specialist help has doubled in the past 10 years, accounting for 10% of attendances at drug treatment clinics in the United Kingdom.(7) This is likely to be an under-representation, as most clinics tend to be geared more towards helping users of opiates.

Also included among the risks are impairment of cognitive function, reduced academic achievement, teratogenic effects, immunosuppression, impaired fertility, and increased promiscuity and sexually transmitted diseases in regular users. (2, 5, 6, 8) As Henry has recently pointed out "it is perilous for the voice of science to be drowned out by campaigners for legalisation who are dismissive of the mounting evidence on dependence and harm."(9)

I'm feeling the need to start quoting from sources here. The above is an extract from the report and so to cherry pick a part of it where it says that statistically 10% of people who use pot are dependant on that.

So in terms of 10% of the population thats whats your looking at not to mention all the other downsides listed above OR the harder drugs (i purposely picked a soft drug so as not too sensationalise what im trying to get across here)

So imagination 10% of our population being dependant smoking pot and just imagine the reprecussions of that 10% on policing / health system (both of which are already ****ed up badly) and thats without taking into consideration the other drugs.

Whats more in that report it actually states that the legalistion of drugs in Amsterdam has had a detrimental effect to it's economy because of the drug use in terms of extra policing and health system costs.

So again legalising drugs would do more harm than good. By keeping them illegal you are restricting access to them by legalising it you are just opening up access to a whole new generation of drugs users.

nobodythere

Catsmokinpot wrote:

thanks yet again for proving my point some random johnny fúckin drug dealer gave someone some fúcked up sh1t and they died from it. can you see what ur saying, if they were legalised drugs. that sort of **** wouldn't happen youd be cutting mortality rates from drugs in half... you'd be taking money out of asshole drugdealers pockets.

You wouldn't cut drug abuse because the stigma of using drugs would disappear if they were legalised, and they would be much more accessible and readily available. They would be as casual as alcohol and nicotine.

Secretly, with regards to soft drugs (hash, mushies, acid), I like the way things are now. Drugs cannot be obtained legally but are still available if you want to do them. This pro/anti drug war has stopped somewhere nice in the middle.

rubadub

Cannabis was on the verge of legalisation in the US when Carter was in power, there were lots of studies showing how safe it was and how the negative effects of illegalisation far outweighed the benefits of it being illegal.

The World Health Organization has concluded that cannabis, when smoked, is twice as carcinogenic as tobacco.

This is probably the old method of comparing a hand rolled unfiltered joint compared to a treated, filtered, cured cigarette. It should compare like with like, a hand rolled naturally dried leaf in both cases. Also the THC from cannabis smoke is absorbed into the lungs in a split second, there is no point holding it in longer, this is not the case with tobacoo. Many people trying to quit tobacco move to "light" smokes, but hold it in longer so get the same amount of nicotine while doing themselves even more harm than normal.
THC can be vaporised with no smoke at all coming off it, in this case it has no carcinogenic effect. These studies also seem to forget that it can be eaten, I am pretty sure lettuce would be carcinogenic if smoked but nobody wants that banned.

Furthermore, cannabis is now 10 times as pure as it was 20 years ago, which points to potentially greater health risks than earlier research has identified

Now this just shows the lack of logic that the writer has. I mentioned about smoking light cigarettes and holding it in longer. It is not the nicotine or the THC that causes damage but the harmful smoke and chemicals it produces like carbon monoxide. If cannabis is 10 times stronger, it means you smoke 10 times less to reach the same desired state of intoxication. Whiskey is 10 times stronger than beer, people do not go out and drink 8 pints of whiskey.
Having strong cannabis reduces the harm to the user. It is crazy that purified THC is a class A drug, people who care about their health and choose hash oil or proper hash will be done for possesion of a class A substance. I used to smoke cigarettes, up to 60 a day at one point. When smoking quality hashish it only takes about a pinhead to get the desired effect.

cannabis also causes dependence in about 10% of users and in 50-90% of regular users

thats a new one on me. I have never seen any study which found cannabis to be addictive. Maybe they have there own version of what "dependent" means. It has never been proven that it is not addictive, and never will be! you cannot prove a negative. The same could be said of lettuce, it might be addictive, since no study can ever show that it is not.
I have no doubt that smoking standard UK/Irish "joints" is an extremely addictive pursuit. Tobacco is regarded by most journals as the most addictive substance known, yet you get no real enjoyment from nicotine, the pleasure is the relief of your withdrawl symptoms. Now combine the most addictive substance known with a drug which gives you a pleasant high and you have a super-addictive substance. If alcohol was usually drank laced with nicotine, there would be a huge amount of drinkers who were alcoholics.

miju

rubadub IMHO you've picked the three weakest parts of that text tried to pick the argument apart and completely ignored all the strong parts of the argument that you cant explain away with a warped logic

rubadub

_raptor_ wrote:

rubadub IMHO you've picked the three weakest parts of that text tried to pick the argument apart and completely ignored all the strong parts of the argument that you cant explain away with a warped logic

You say it like there were millions of "strong arguments", I agree with some of the stuff. I do think some have nothing to do with cannabis. Each paragraph is on a different general subject and has some stupid statement which then leads me to doubt if any of the quoted figures are correct. I see their logic as warped, not mine, what flaws do you see in my arguments.

precipitates schizophrenia

I have heard that before, probably true.

violent behaviour

now that is a new one on me! Jesus christ, where did they pull that one out of. At least they didnt get into the gateway bull****, that even our own boys in blue have admitted is crap.

Surely you cannot agree with the "10 times stronger" argument. Comparing tobacoo smoke to cannabis is like comparing doughnuts to salt. Yes both are bad for your health, but then saying eating 100g of salt is far worse than eating 100g of doughnuts, therefore salt should be banned. They are not smoked/eaten in the same amounts by users.

increased promiscuity

I would have guessed this of any drug user, they are generally far more open minded, I would imagine the little quiet librarian who doesnt drink smoke or listen to the devils rock n roll music is not out sucking as much cock as the drunken slapper smoking dope outside the local.
I would say promiscuous people would be more likely to take cannabis, not the other way around. If I spiked the librarian, I dont think she will turn into a slut overnight.

SherriffBuck

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=222650&highlight=legalise+cannabis :rolleyes:

Ive had a nosey around and this nonsense thread has been done before, except better......

Some real facts here, not the makey upy crap I have seen the Pro drugs, legalise drugs people on this thread.

Catsmokinpot

SherriffBuck wrote:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=222650&highlight=legalise+cannabis :rolleyes:

Ive had a nosey around and this nonsense thread has been done before, except better......

Some real facts here, not the makey upy crap I have seen the Pro drugs, legalise drugs people on this thread.

the makey upy crap? good word use there buddy, real facts? ok you give us some real facts there buddy id love to hear them

jazzbandit

Jesus, drugs. Bad bad stuff.Crime, HIV, Hep B, Hep C, wasted health resources. We all know it's bad. We all know it's a problem in Ireland. Injecting drug users are the big problem. Lumping hash in with heroin is a bit off the mark, I suppose. Hash can probably cause long term problems, although a lot of the work is inconclusive. WE can argue about it, but nobody really knows the answers.

WE know about IV heroin though. We all know the problems it causes. We also know the link between IV drug abuse and soci0-economic status. To put it bluntly, the poorer you are, the more likely you are to use drugs.

That's never a popular opinion, usually attracting a chorus of "it's all about personal choice" from the right. The relaity is that there are a myriad of reasons why the poor are more likely to A) start using heroin and become addicted to heroin.

Importantly, many many studies also show that one of the most important factors in determining drug use in a society is the level of inequality. There's some uncertaintly about the reasons for this, but it has resulted in directed givt policy in the UK (one of the most unequal societies in the western world)trying to reduce inequality, rather than simply trying to reduce poverty.

What im tryin to say, in a long winded way, is that the answer to the drugs problem is political and economic. Getting people workin and into quality housing, and getting their self esteem back is part of the answer.

The answer is not listening to guys like mc guyver who go on like they're the only person who's seen a drug addict before, and thus should be the only people who can hold an opinion. The people in the department of finance are unlikely to have met many drug adicts, but are likly to be far more important in the war against drugs than any key worker in the quays.

And before anyone accuses me of being a bleedin heart liberal I'd like to state that I think most drug abusers are tossers. I usually dislike them intensely. I have worked with many many drug abusers in the past, and only remember one who I actually got on with. Now that I work with kids, I see the mess they leave behind when they get pregnant.

However, regardless of what we think of them, we can all agree sociaty would be better off without drugs?

The jazz man

Dave!

I agree 100% with Catsmokinpot and rubadub; they've pretty much summed up collectively, what I think.

It's none of your business what I do with my body -- you're not my mammy. And lots of people mess up their lives on drugs, but those people are weak, imo. If you can't handle it, don't do it. If you want to do something, do the research on it before you do. For instance, I'm never going to do heroine or cocaine because they're so addictive, and I can see how easily they destroy lives -- and I would be afraid of overdosing. I have smoked cigarettes and weed, and drunk alcohol, and haven't had any problems whatsoever. If I found myself having problems, I would stop using it, as someone earlier did.

I can control myself, and once you can, drugs shouldn't be a problem for you. If you find yourself addicted to chocolate, then you probably shouldn't try heroine -- get me?

jazzbandit wrote:

However, regardless of what we think of them, we can all agree sociaty would be better off without drugs?

uhh... no?

Blub2k4

DaveMcG wrote:

I can control myself, and once you can, drugs shouldn't be a problem for you. If you find yourself addicted to chocolate, then you probably shouldn't try heroine -- get me?

I dont know any junkies that didn't say that at some point, some of them actually so far along the road to addiction that they didn't even see that they were already in the grip of heroin.

I'd go as far as to say that no matter how strong you think yourself to be that trying heroin is always a bad idea.
Dont test out your "theory" would be my advice.

Resurrection

Drugs can be a problem if you have no self control. I've eaten a few thousand pills in the last 6 year(E), snorted mountains of cocaine, snorted ketamine, MDMA powder, ate acid tabs, ate mushrooms, opium, yaba(thai version of crack), various painkillers and tranquilisers

I'm 20 years old and other than having the blues from binging a bit too much i'm perfectly healthy. WIll I continue to do this for the rest of my life? No, I won't be even smoking weed/hash by the time I turn 25. I'm young and im enjoying it and my abuse isn't problamatic.

But to answer your question, drugs are easy to get in this country but whether they are a problem or not - everyone has their own story