Meanwhile on the Roads...

CramCycle · 18-06-2026 10:58PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124561645#Comment_124561645

What you are talking about on a speedo is not taken into account, but if you get pinched at 124kmph on a 120kmph, your speedo likely said 130kmph or more, so you have no excuses, but the van doesn't care what your speedo says, it records the speed, and that is it. It records 124kmph, your speedo says 130kmph, it will issue the fine as doing 124kmph

So just to be clear, the GoSafe vans (not Garda ones) do not change or manipulate the number they detect. They are checked and the "tolerance" you describe, which is so small, it is below the 0.1kmph reported, is not a thing.

magicbastarder · 18-06-2026 11:21PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124561645#Comment_124561645

You said it yourself that the cars were most likely showing 115 on their speedometer, so it's entirely feasible that even though the speed vans can be calibrated to within +/- 1, they are actually calibrated to 10% below to remove the possibility of being challenged on their accuracy.

(probably telling people what they already know) the reason why car speedos will overestimate the car's speed is because they're not measuring speed, they're measuring the revolutions of the wheels; and the speed can vary based on tyre pressure and tyre sizes, for the same reading for RPM.

if i stuck tyres on my car which had a diameter 10% bigger than the standard set, the car would be going 10% faster for the same reading on the speedo, so there's a built in fudge factor to allow for these variations; a speedo cannot legally underestimate speed but can overestimate it by 10% + 4km/h.

so if your actual speed is 100km/h, the speedo can legally read between 100 and 114km/h.

no such fudge factor is required for a go safe van, they measure the actual speed of the car.

and they can only measure speed once the car is within 40m of them; so someone caught at 109km/h was either a) doing 109km/h and didn't spot the van which is deliberately painted to be as conspicuous as possible, or b) was doing well over 109km/h and spotted the van and braked hard to be caught doing 'only' 109km/h.

but we can't expect judges to put that much thought into these matters.

standardg60 · 19-06-2026 12:01AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124561955#Comment_124561955

This is the rub, how can it be defined in law that the actual speed detected coincided with what was showing on the speedometer given the variables you mentioned, what if the tyres fitted were 10% smaller?

This has to be allowed for, the triggering of a speed van photo has to be in excess of this, otherwise it would be flashing everyone travelling at 102, which clearly doesn't happen.

magicbastarder · 19-06-2026 12:16AM

how can it be defined in law that the actual speed detected coincided with what was showing on the speedometer

unless i'm misreading your question, it's not?

the speedometer is designed to be roughly accurate, but there's no requirement for it to be precise. but it cannot display a speed that's lower than your actual speed, for obvious reasons. you can't be driving at 70 and the car giving you the mistaken impression you're doing 50.

Seth Brundle · 19-06-2026 12:24AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124562040#Comment_124562040

It is up to the vehicle owner to ensure that their vehicle is roadworthy and that any modifications made to it do not affect it's roadworthyness. Someone with incorrect tyres are responsible for any misreading (and if they were on smaller tyres then their speedo would be over-reading to a much higher extent i.e. showing 100km/h when they're actually doing 90km/h - someone with larger tyres is going to be under-reading their speed e.g. doing 110 when the speedo says 100, but that's their problem to rectify!).

Compliance with the law is the responsibility of the driver. There is absolutely nothing written into law saying that a driver is entitled to a certain leeway above the speed limit- thankfully!

Just in addition, when a car leaves the factory it cannot, by law, under-read. It will more than likely over-read to compensate for tyre wear, etc.

As for the Gosafe speed vans, they photograph everything over the speed limit and a garda manually reviews the photos to decide which ones to send forwards for points/fining.

CoffeeImpala · 19-06-2026 01:32AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124559859#Comment_124559859

My reading from the article is that the judge nudged and winked the prosecution into withdrawing the cases rather than ruling them dismissed.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124559889#Comment_124559889

No ruling means there's nothing to appeal and no chance of a knuckle rapping.

Paddigol · 19-06-2026 11:42AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124561955#Comment_124561955

Possibly the best summation of the issues I've read! Especially the reality that almost everyone pinged speeding has probably been braking to try and avoid getting caught. It's what causes tailbacks anytime there's a speed van on a busy road.

Dr_Colossus · 19-06-2026 01:11PM

Another and better example of the ineffectiveness of our judiciary. Caught for the 6th time with no insurance and already disqualified and only given a suspended sentence and a partly fine of €500. What a victory for the champ on the court steps as per pic:

https://www.independent.ie/county/longford/banned-driver-caught-behind-the-wheel-for-the-sixth-time-without-insurance-walks-free-from-court/a/157401379.html

hans aus dtschl · 19-06-2026 01:20PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124561955#Comment_124561955

Diameter?

Maybe 10% more circumference rather than diameter. 1.1 (diameter x Pi). Sorry this is probably derailing the thread…

khamilton · 19-06-2026 01:50PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124561645#Comment_124561645

There doesn't have to be a tolerance on the reading, there has to be a threshold under which AGS decide not to prosecute based on the calibration specifics of the equipment used for detection.

It's no different than alcohol readings on blood tests, there is a tolerance in the analysis, and evidence is presented as to the reading and the margin of error/uncertainty - modifying the reading to account for a hypothetical tolerance is altering the evidence and will immediately render it something that can't be used in court (as we saw with the Evidenzer case a couple of years back).

The fact is, if a speed gun, a gatso, or a GoSafe vans catches you and says you were doing 109km/h, this is what the equipment detected you as doing. The equipment will have a calibration certificate which says it is accurate to +/- X km/h at various speeds, but the detected speed is the detected speed - it isn't 'detected speed minus a random figure we came up with'

Case law is clear that as long as a speed detection tool has a valid calibration certificate, it's readings can't be challenged in court.

Vehicle speedometers overread because UN regulations allow (well actually, encourage) them to:

https://unece.org/fileadmin/DAM/trans/main/wp29/wp29regs/2018/R039r2e.pdf Section 5.4

I'm not aware of anyone in Europe successfully arguing that because their speedometer wasn't calibrated, it wasn't their fault they were speeding. Separately, it isn't a defence to speeding that you were "unaware of your speed" because your speedometer was reading incorrectly.

Paddigol · 19-06-2026 02:32PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124563250#Comment_124563250

Agree with the sentiment. But perhaps if successive governments had overhauled the prison system/ increased prison capacity the Courts may be more amenable to wasting a cell on some ass**le like that as opposed to someone convicted of assault etc. It's easy to blame the judges, as they're the ones who make the headlines, but the problems go much further than that.

Dr_Colossus · 19-06-2026 02:39PM

Fair point and agreed. Before the last general election when canvassers came calling asking about concerns I only mentioned our lack of prisons and spaces within. They were completely taken aback and had no response, it was quite bizarre but apparently not an issue that was previously raised.

I'll blame the judges so for not applying a meaningful fine and a serious deterrent to driving uninsured. With a clean license and full NCB I struggle to get insurance for €500 so a fair fine I believe is something like €5,000. Could be used to fund future prison space.

magicbastarder · 19-06-2026 06:30PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124563279#Comment_124563279

circumference and diameter have a linear relationship. so saying 10% greater diameter is pretty much the same as saying 10% greater circumference.

CramCycle · 19-06-2026 10:12PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124564066#Comment_124564066

In the round it's 0.314 times bigger

magicbastarder · 19-06-2026 10:49PM

https://youtu.be/aq-MBPNXZig?is=3x7bPZjtJQ36Wzqa

..

zell12 · 24-06-2026 09:50PM

Every year cars get 1.2cm longer, 0.5cm higher, 0.5cm wider - results in making roads less safe and need to redesign car parks to steal more urban space https://www.newstalk.com/news/cars-2270188

Wildly Boaring · 25-06-2026 08:41AM

Yes and drivers of bigger cars just don't care

https://road.cc/news/suv-drivers-dont-care-about-danger-posed-to-cyclists-and-pedestrians-new-study-finds

Paddigol · 25-06-2026 10:01AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124578117#Comment_124578117

I'd cut a lot of those drivers some slack, if only for reasons of human psychology and the insidiousness of marketing and lobbying. What I mean by that is we've been fed a narrative by the motor industry for years/ decades, that bigger, faster, higher is better. All the manufacturers contribute to this. All the motor media feed it. There's no push back by governments. The Greens, apparently, are destroying our country so they can't be listened to. So when someone pops up and tell an SUV driver about the dangers and ask if they care, I'd expect the response to be borne of defensiveness and suspicion - "who are you to tell me that my choices may be harmful when everyone else told me they were sensible - I don't care about what you say".

As always with my points on this, change can come from the ground up (see grassroot Green organisations) but it would be very helpful and make it happen a lot quicker if it was helped from the top down too. Don't hold your breath.

Wildly Boaring · 25-06-2026 10:21PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124578275#Comment_124578275

Change will come from automotive industry, I think.

EVs are far more efficient when smaller and more streamlined. The manufacturers have already startted to push smaller cars, the Polo EV is big news this year etc

magicbastarder · 25-06-2026 10:56PM

the automotive industry doesn't give a flying **** what's efficient. they care what makes them a profit.

on a related note, the garage which sold my FIL his (then) brand new X5 have convinced him he should replace it with a new one.

he's spending 40k to change a car which has 40k on the clock. for the same model. so he's gaining pretty much nothing except changing the colour of his car. but 'he worked hard for it'.

that bit i can't deny, he didn't retire until he was well into his 70s. i'm just bemused that someone who thinks he has the most finely attuned bullshit detector in christendom, has been so completely won over by car marketing.

De Bhál · 26-06-2026 09:32AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124580462#Comment_124580462

gotta have the 262 numberplate

MangleBadger · 26-06-2026 10:04AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124580462#Comment_124580462

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124581009#Comment_124581009

Changing car to the same model just a newer year is the most nonsensical thing I have ever heard. Inlaws are also guilty of it. Although they are on PCP so not dropping €40k

Paddigol · 26-06-2026 12:43PM

Don't forget yer hi-viz lads…

Cans and vans: Gardaí make sobering discovery after pulling over M7 motorist

Large bottle small glass · 26-06-2026 01:04PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124580354#Comment_124580354

Car manufacturers almost do what they want.

Two big issues which stand out show this.

The VW diesel emissions scandal involved 11,000,000 vehicles. It wasn't picked up in Europe but in the USA where the European car industry isn't in bed with governments/regulators etc. The cost to regular consumers was immense.

The rise of electric cars should have, from a consumer point of view, addressed the elephant in the room; battery replacement. Every battery powered item I have can be replaced by a standard sized battery AAA, B, D or whatever but car batteries are a special case. Rather than allowing for standarised batteries and the resultant effect on replacement we have what manufacturer's love; proprietary products. This forced owners to get hosed with battery replacement for their 8/9/10 yr old battery or just buy a new one.

Regulating the bonnet height of cars/suv etc in order to protect pedestrians is trivial. Limiting the size of A pillars should be too; but because cars are so wide, long, high and heavy the A pillars are huge in order to protect the occupants in the event of a roll over but fcuk the VRU you didn't see when pulling out at the junctions.

We know all these things are bad and rather than regulating what's allowed on roads which just allowed them to talk up the tech which "sees" the pedestrian their vehicles are much much likely to kill when they hit them

Mefistofelino · 26-06-2026 01:29PM

Remember that EVs were not developed to save the environment. They were developed to save the car industry.

magicbastarder · 26-06-2026 01:39PM

i know that's nice and pithy, and sounds truthy, but so much of the car industry was incredibly slow to respond and adapt; most of the established car industry tried to save itself by clinging on to ICE and using their lobbying power there, rather than embracing batteries.

Paddigol · 26-06-2026 05:01PM

I'm sceptical of electric cars - and the MASSIVE increase in battery use generally by us all in everyday life compared to 15/ 20 years ago. Everything is battery now - phones, computers, bikes, scooters, cars, toothbrushes, hoovers, lawn mowers, tootbrushes, power tools… it all feels very modern and sexy… but is this not all heavily rare-earth mineral dependent? Are we not just moving from a very dirty, very environmentally unfriendly thing (fossil fuels) to a more hidden, maybe not quite as dirty on a pro-rata basis, environmentally unfriendly thing?

At the end of the day, does everything running on batteries now not trace itself back to heaving mining? Just that we in the West don't have to look at the physical realities of that? Also, are we sleep walking into the next big environmental headache - disposal of lithium batteries?

Hashtag Not A Scientist, but the sceptic in me thinks that when something sounds like the perfect solution, its usually just a case of the other shoe not having dropped yet…

Large bottle small glass · 26-06-2026 05:47PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124582230#Comment_124582230

Bezbos, Musk, Gates any a few other billionaires are up to their eyeballs in getting their cobalt out of the Congo.

Chinese, Russians and Yanks are there to.

Russia's Africa Corp, Erik Prince and a few other beauts are securing cobalt for lithium batteries.

When we are no longer dependent on oil we'll be dependent on something else.

magicbastarder · 26-06-2026 06:59PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124582230#Comment_124582230

yes, mining that stuff is not environmentally friendly at all.

but on a per car basis, once it's mined, it's mined. you're not mining oil to fuel that car for the rest of its life.

and the minerals within a battery are highly recyclable once the battery reaches EOL; though i suspect it's hardly an environmentally neutral process to do so.

smacl · 27-06-2026 09:11AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124582230#Comment_124582230

I think it is worth considering battery size here. One electric SUV for example is the equivalent of anywhere from 100 - 250 ebikes so not really comparable in terms of environmental cost of moving people about. Smaller items such as phones are an order of magnitude smaller again, though I'm strongly in favour of new EU sustainability legislation mandating easy replacement and recycling of batteries in these devices along with the outright ban of disposable single use battery devices like disposable vapes.

I'm seeing an increasing number of folks locally doing school runs on two and three seat e-cargo bikes which always brings a smile to my face. Also a few towing bike trailers. I can see kids who are ferried around this way moving to their own bikes as the next logical step thus helping normalise bikes and e-bikes as the most effective form of transport on many fronts.

As MB has pointed out above, even for larger batteries, environmental considerations for mining are in no way comparable to fossil usage.

Meanwhile on the Roads...

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