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LUAS Network + Future Expansion

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,706 ✭✭✭✭Idbatterim


    Your plan makes too much sense. ..

    It scores very low on the is it ?1. Cheap 2. Easy .3 looks like we're doing something. That's their criteria…



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9 carraigin


    GDP is not a measure of real output as it is tied to money. It is a useful metric in certain instances, but not this one. Young people cannot afford to move out of the box room. Further, households are not forming so any population growth is not genuinely sustainable. Why? Because the average Irish worker's output is not high enough. The existing assets e.g. machinery and commercial units help offset this, but living standards are declining nonetheless. What is more, this vulnerability is being exploited by state actors that pose advanced persistent threats such as Russia, China and other BRICS nations. Ireland's infrastructure has already been damaged as a result.

    If you want to invest in the future, shift the economy towards capitalism and turn everyone who lives on this isle into a net contributor to the state's coffers. That way, population growth will be more sustainable and the government will be able to plan infrastructure development appropriately.

    If you let Ireland's super-wealthy oligarchy dictate infrastructure development, the result will be subpar as they have no long-term vision for Ireland. Their status is premised on wealth extraction via rent rather than on farming or manufacturing. They are cannibalising the middle class by having them subsidise employment schemes for transient labour. The costs are offloaded to society and the state through erosion of purchasing power.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 5,830 Mod ✭✭✭✭spacetweek


    In a successful society and economy, continuous increase in demand for transportation is assumed. When planning and designing it the job simply becomes figuring out how to satisfy it. Whether or not the growth should be happening should not be questioned or even questionable.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,299 ✭✭✭✭Zebra3


    Probably the best place to throw this, but might be worthwhile having a historical thread.


    https://www.rte.ie/archives/2026/0306/1561995-harcourt-street-line/



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 340 ✭✭OisinCooke


    Some interesting discussions going on in other threads and some great points being made, particularly by @bk on and extension of the Luas Green Line north of Finglas to Ashbourne, so just thought I’d take it over here to see what people think.

    I think it makes plenty of sense to use the Luas to serve Ashbourne, especially given how close the Green Line will get to it at Charlestown (only 12km of straight track through greenfield sites).

    The line could split before the St. Margaret’s Road stop and follow the R135 straight up and under the M50 at junction 5, where there are already tunnels beneath the entire intersection all the way to the old North Road. Now they will likely have to be widened, or may not be useable at all but they’re there nonetheless.

    From there it’s just easily-constructed (being much less high-spec than full heavy rail) open track to the Nine Mile Roundabout. I don’t see any need for stations between the M50 and there, maybe provisions for SDZs or general development around Coolquoy or Ward, but not necessary.

    Then from the Nine Mile Roundabout (where there’s lots of potential for development), I’m not quite sure how the line would cross Ashbourne, but the benefit of a tram rather than heavy rail here is obviously cost, but also the far better penetration of the town centre, as well as multiple stops for local commuting within the town.

    It could even continue out to Ratoath, which I think wouldn’t be too much of a stretch and only be an extra 2.5km of railway roughly.

    The trams would obviously be higher spec than the current Luas trams, capable of 100kmh running and maybe slightly different seating provisions, although I find the existing Luas trams pretty good for longer journeys.

    The journey times quoted for Luas Finglas are 13 minutes from Charlestown to Broombridge, and 30 minutes from Charlestown to Trinity. It takes 13 minutes to get from the M50 junction to the Nine Mile Roundabout on the old road according to Google Maps, and the tram should be as fast if not faster than the car here, so I think it’s not unreasonable to suggest a journey time of under 30 minutes to Broombridge station, and around 45 minutes max from Ashbourne town centre to O’Connell Street.

    This is roughly how long the 103x is timetabled to take in the morning peak, with the regular 103 taking 50 minutes at best.

    I really think this is a good plan, and it is a method used by lots of other European cities to reach surrounding commuter towns. Just said I’d put a message in here about it to hopefully start a conversation and hopefully @bk can chime in with some of the very good points you had on other threads. Curious to hear people’s thoughts!



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,299 ✭✭✭✭Zebra3


    I’d only be in favour of it with at least 2 SDZs along the route.



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 24,370 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    Hi @OisinCooke thanks, yes this would be a better place to discuss this proposal and the general concept of use LRT for longer distance commuter type services.

    I realise this might be a surprising idea for many people, I think most of us in Ireland, myself included until a few months ago, would have the idea that trams/lrt/Luas are only suited to shorter distance urban transport. However it turns out LRT is used very successfully for longer distance commuter services in many countries like Denmark, Germany, Porto and even in regional Paris!

    I first came across this idea on a YouTube channel about the Aarhus Light Rail system in Denmark. It is a 110km light rail network. They use 70km/h trams in urban Aarhus, but then they also use higher spec 100km/h trams with more seating and more comfortable seats, etc. on routes that reach deep into the surrounding countryside to connect distant commuter towns outside the city. Line 1 is 69km long!

    And it is a very popular and successful system.

    The advantage is that light rail is typically cheaper to build then new heavy rail, lighter structures, no signalling, no need for level crossings (though obviously you want to limit crossings for speed) or big expensive stations with lifts and over passes, etc. so much cheaper to build.

    But the other big advantage which Oisin mentioned is how they can penetrate into towns by street running. It is much easier to run a tram on the town streets so it can go right into the center of a town and have multiple stops across the town.

    This can be an issue for heavy rail where it would be too expensive and disruptive to build a new line into a center of a town, so instead they have to build it on the outskirts of the town. But then that leads to complaints about accessibility. Trams can help solve this by bringing people where they want to go and make feeder buses, park and rides, etc. unnecessary.

    A nice combination of slower street running in the towns and city center, but then high speeds through the countryside in between.

    Just to say I’m not suggesting this idea instead of heavy rail where that makes sense, like I wouldn’t suggest it for the Navan line or anything like that. But for brand new lines with no existing heavy rail infrastructure, I think it is a great option to consider.

    Ashbourne is an obvious contender for such an idea as the end of the Finglas Luas will be right there, just need to cross the M50 and through fields, shouldn’t be a big job. I do think potential for one or two SDZ’s along the way too.

    But I think this idea could also work elsewhere in the country, Carrigaline in Cork, perhaps it could even possibly be extended to Kinsale! Might it even be an option for West Cork!

    Perhaps food for thought.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,299 ✭✭✭✭Zebra3


    Appreciate the shouldn’t be a big job stuff. I agree. But the current proposed extension at €600M for 4km is obscene.


    Bang of corruption off it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,399 ✭✭✭Daith




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,599 ✭✭✭✭cgcsb


    Sound unlikely. DART+ tenders for west wont be out till September, 1.5 years after onboarding a consultant and even if there's tender award by March 2027, there won't be construction starting till late 2028 realistically. Luas Finglas isn't even at the point where there's a consultant appointed to draft tender docs.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,518 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie


    Yep good idea but once this comes after some sort of high quality tram line/ second metro line for DSW which is an area without access to any kind of rail.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,894 ✭✭✭spillit67


    Good to hear of some progress. I think there’s regret in Government now that nothing is on site rail wise in Dublin.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,557 ✭✭✭VonLuck


    I see Fingal County Council have announced a consultation for development of the Dunsink lands, including a proposed new Luas line. I imagine that will put the green line under a lot of pressure if it ever gets built.

    https://www.fingal.ie/news/building-future-dublin-plans-new-dunsink-city-quarter-unveiled



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 15,111 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    By the time of the next election you’ll have Metrolink and likely a Luas line and 2 DART+ projects under construction along with a heap of BusConnects corridors.

    That’ll please quite a lot of people, especially the lefties

    Some of them won’t be happy with the volume of PT under construction as there was also road projects permitted but such is life



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 769 ✭✭✭PlatformNine


    This seems to be proposed as a the line for Luas Tyrrelstown. I believe TII has some rough plans for what that line will look like already, so I am curious if this lines up with those plans and FCC have been working along side TII, or if this is a different proposal.

    I don't disagree that this could put the GL under a lot of pressure, however, both Luas Tyrrelstown and Luas Finglas should be able to support 10tph (20tph total) before it starts to run into capacity problems. Even then there are likely plenty of longer term plans that will help. D+W could take a lot of pressure off of the line and help with a lot of capacity issues, and it may also be possible to build in some additional terminal capacity at Broombridge for shuttle services to DARTs (e.g. Finglas-Broombridge services). If a Luas Finglas is extended to Northwood to meet with MetroLink that could help a bit too. Then also much more in the longer term it is also a good example of how DART Underground will be needed eventually, as Broombridge as an interchange to very high frequency DARTs would likely solve any possible issues the northern section of the GL could have for a long time.



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