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Ireland vs Israel - To play or not to play, that is the question Read OP for Mod Warning

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 849 ✭✭✭JohnDoe2025


    I think your guess is wildly unrealistic.

    The domestic league depends on money from UEFA competitions. It depends on a licensing system controlled by UEFA. The FAI depends on UEFA money and money from hosting internationals.

    If those are all gone, there is no soccer in Ireland. Suspension from European competition for both clubs and country, even for one cycle, would put back the development of soccer by decades.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,080 ✭✭✭✭TheCitizen


    you are exaggerating. He’s talking in terms of the FAI making a unilateral decision on their own to simply not fulfil the fixture. That’s not going to happen and no one expects that. Any number of things could happen, the home match played on neutral ground, restricted or no fans, major demonstrations accommodated or depending on circumstances and/or events between now and the Autumn the game may not go ahead.

    The FAI on their own bat will not be taking a unilateral decision to not play the fixtures. We can agree on that. You can stop exaggerating and catastrophising on behalf of a few staffers at the FAI now. You really have over egged that one.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,080 ✭✭✭✭TheCitizen


    And the sky might fall in but none of that is going to happen.

    We’re talking about pressure on UEFA/FIFA to apply their own regulations and ban Israel here, not flagellating Irish football for doing what they can to hold UEFA’s feet to the fire on this.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,224 ✭✭✭Paddy_Mag


    Yes and so was i. Everyone calling for a boycott is saying the FAI should boycott the games. The FAI, not in conjunction with anyone else but the FAI.

    The consequences for that would be "serious".

    The FAI have stated they are fulfilling the fixtures. Yet you keep going on about some mysterious scenario where they wont even though everyone directly involved have stated otherwise



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,224 ✭✭✭Paddy_Mag


    But the FAI have done all they can. They brought a motion forward to UEFA and exactly NOBODY supported it.

    There is nothing left for the FAI to do now.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,080 ✭✭✭✭TheCitizen


    I’m talking about a scenario where more political pressure is put on UEFA to apply their own regulations and do the right thing here. It’s hardly a “mysterious” scenario given that football representatives across Ireland voted overwhelmingly to present a motion to UEFA to apply their regulations and ban Israel. With Ireland being drawn to actually face Israel the issue will resurface and the debate will intensify.

    For someone who keeps banging on about the staff at the FAI etc., you seem to be at odds with the general soccer community in Ireland on this matter with your “virtue signalling” jibes against anyone expressing opposition against the genocidal murderous Israeli government.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,632 ✭✭✭Yeah_Right


    Just to clarify, when you say that you don't think the FAI and employees would be hung out to dry, is that because you believe the government would step in and support them?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,580 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    and not 33,000 Iranians killed by their own government

    This didn't happen and you know it. You've been corrected numerous times already.

    Stop lying about this.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,224 ✭✭✭Paddy_Mag


    The FAI already brought that motion 6 months ago. Nobody else wanted to know. Most FA around Europe are equally heavily dependent on UEFA for their income so they have no motive to rock the boat.

    I dont see where the political pressure is going to come from at the moment to force a change at UEFA/FIFA level. The FAI cannot keep pushing the issue with UEFA as that serves no purpose.

    As a UEFA member, the FAI have accepted that a draw could put them in a group with Israel. Constantly asking for another association to be banned now, essentially to avoid playing them when a good few others have fulfilled fixtures, would not gather much support.

    There will be loads of chatter but i would be surprised if it led to anything barring a dramatic change in (non FAI or football related) circumstances

    Its very easy for the general soccer community, or a LOI players union poll to call for the FAI to boycott the fixtures. The dont have to deal with the consequences if they FAI made that call. I reckon the LOI players change their tune if they had to vote knowing a boycott would mean for example a 2-3 year ban for LOI clubs from UEFA club Competitions was one consequence.

    I am fully behind the FAI decision to fulfil the fixtures because the consequences of a boycott would be detrimental to the FAI and the game in general in Ireland. People demanding the FAI boycott the games, who dont care about the consequences because they don't have to deal with them, are virtue signalling.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,224 ✭✭✭Paddy_Mag


    I believe so.

    But there has been no indication from government that they would do so. They have stated full support for FAI decision to play the game.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,080 ✭✭✭✭TheCitizen


    Yes I think the country would support them and the government would follow that. What I’m saying is that between now and these Autumn fixtures I think more efforts will be made to pressure UEFA into applying their own regulations and banning Israel from international competitions. It won’t be the FAI on their own taking a decision to not play the game, but with backup it may not go ahead.

    I don’t think the debate around this has even started yet and we don’t know what shape or form these fixtures will take in terms of neutral venues or big demonstrations or even if it happens at all.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,233 ✭✭✭TokTik


    Of all the nonsense posted in the thread, this is the most ridiculous. You think UEFA want to go to the CAS to defend its blatant breaking of its own rules?? No team that boycotts Israel will face any consequences because of this.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,080 ✭✭✭✭TheCitizen


    Yes Paddy we know what you want; above all it appears you don’t want what you call the “virtue signallers” to look like they might get their way.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,233 ✭✭✭TokTik


    RTÉ/Virgin Media pay for the rights to Nations League games. They last paid €1.8m for the 2022 cycle. What would it cost the FAI?? What mystery 100m deal are you talking about??



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,253 ✭✭✭wildgreen


    Can you provide a link or some details regarding the UEFA meeting that discussed the FAI proposal. When was it? Was there a vote? Is there a report from the meeting?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,233 ✭✭✭TokTik


    The farmers/truck drivers have set the template. If israel arrive here, the FAI should do everything they need to do to “play” the game and the city should be shut down, roads blocked, infrastructure shut down. See how brave the israeli players are when they’ve to walk through hostile streets to the stadium.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,622 ✭✭✭csirl


    Again, obviously you'te not familiar with sport. If a complaint is made to CAS about a UEFA decision, then UEFA has to defend it - otherwise it gets overturned by default. CAS is not optional.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,080 ✭✭✭✭TheCitizen


    We need to get them “virtue signalling” farmers and truck drivers out leading the van and causing havoc on the streets around Lansdowne Road when this Israel fixture comes around.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,622 ✭✭✭csirl


    I dont recall ever seeing anything about the head of the Israeli FA being wanted for war crimes. You need to check your facts.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,622 ✭✭✭csirl


    What rules have been broken? I've an interest in sports law, so would be genuinely intetested in hearing about it.

    Many posters seem to be citing that their are teams in Palestinian areas playing in Israeli leagues. Can you point to the specific rule in the FIFA/UEFA statutes that is alleged to have been broken? Any reason why the Palestinian FA has not made a complaint?

    Just to point out that in many sports, including soccer, there are many instances where teams play in leagues outside their own countries. Indeed, Ireland is probably the place in the world where this is most common. A large number of our sports operate leagues on an all-island basis, thus teams the wider sporting world considers to be UK based teams, play in Irish leagues. Even the LOI has a N.I. based team in its top division.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,224 ✭✭✭Paddy_Mag


    https://www.uefa.com/uefanationsleague/news/0291-1bca4d67182c-b23fd880da78-1000--where-to-watch-the-nations-league-final-tv-broadcast-partne/

    The TV rights and commercial activity is centralised. Countries dont negotiate their own deals.

    https://es.uefa.com/news-media/news/02a2-1fe83965a42a-37e08e26c799-1000--uefa-s-2024-25-financial-results-growing-the-game-at-every-/

    Nations League brings international benefits

    The fourth edition of the UEFA Nations League had a dramatic finale last June as Portugal defeated neighbours Spain on penalties, rounding off a final four that included hosts Germany and France.

    Introduced to give national teams more competitive matches and reduce the number of meaningless friendlies, the Nations League continues to deliver for players and fans while also offering a stable source of income for Europe's national football associations thanks to centralised commercial rights and shared sponsorship revenues that are expected to reach €3 billion between 2022 and 2028.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,632 ✭✭✭Yeah_Right


    If the FAI decided to refuse to play these games and the government stepped to compensate them for the loss of revenue that would be the right thing to do. There are 2 problems with that from what I can see.

    Firstly what if UEFA suspended Ireland? The FAI's income is gone for however long the suspension lasts. Does the government then continue to fund them to make up for this?

    Secondly, the massive outcry from a very vocal section of the public. They would be outraged about government money going to professional footballers when there's a housing/ cost of living/ energy/ health/ environment/ transport/ homelessness/ immigration crisis etc. The funny thing is that a lot of the people that would be shouting the loudest, would be the same people who are calling for a boycott.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,224 ✭✭✭Paddy_Mag


    If UEFA did suspend Ireland, that also impacts the LOI in a significant way. The Money LOI clubs receive from UEFA would then presumably dry up. We are talking millions here, last year it Was somewhere in the region of €12m altogether if I am not mistaken.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,224 ✭✭✭Paddy_Mag


    The FAI will not, in any way shape or form be involved in any decision to boycott the games. If the games don’t go ahead, it is because UEFA ban Israel [Or there is a worldwide ban like Russia, but the politics of who supports Russia and Israel are immensely different].

    If the Irish government intervene and for example refuse to allow Israel into the country, then UEFA will most likely tell the FAI to find another venue on the continent.

    The FAI simply cannot afford to be seen to be pushing for these games to not go ahead outside of an official motion to UEFA, which, as you well know, they did so 6 months ago and UEFA didn’t entertain it. And the rest of the FA affiliated to UEFA kept their mouths shut presumably because they don’t want to bite the hand that feeds them.

    You keep talking about political pressure being put on UEFA, who is going to apply this political pressure on UEFA precisely?

    You are all bluster and “I think” but no facts. Is there a political will in Europe, UEFA, Football associations around Europe to ban Israel from UEFA competitions? If so, where has this been since October 7th 2023? Why is it suddenly going to manifest itself when Ireland gets drawn in a group with Israel and not when numerous other sides played games against them in the last 30 months?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,080 ✭✭✭✭TheCitizen


    There's a few what if's in what you're saying yourself there.

    I think political pressure can be brought to bear on UEFA to do their duty in this matter. I don't think UEFA will be suspending Ireland, let's try and find out if they actually will actually suspend Ireland instead of doing what they should be doing according to their own regulations which is ban Israel. I think with the right kind of brinkmanship this fixture can be used as a political football to pressure UEFA to apply their own regulations.

    If it doesn't work, it doesn't work but this fixture will (correctly) be used literally as a political football to pile pressure on UEFA and to highlight the cowardice in the international communities failure to stand up to the current murderous Israeli regime.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,080 ✭✭✭✭TheCitizen


    methinks you doth protest too much Patrick.

    It's almost like you really really really are desperately (to borrow your favourite term) "virtue signaling" on behalf of the murderous genocidal Israeli government for this game to go ahead at all costs and for Israel to disgracefully continue to escape from international sporting and cultural boycotts.

    Maybe try setting aside your personal dislike of (I'm guessing lefty type) elements of the pro Palestine movement and think about the larger picture for a moment. The loss of life, the dangerous precedents being set, the wider war emanating from this Israeli governments illegal and genocidal actions and the financial costs rippling around the world including here in Ireland hitting farmers, truckers and the rest of us in the pocket Paddy.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 56,817 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    The head of their terrorist country is as you well know and they represent that yerrorist country that committed genocide.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,224 ✭✭✭Paddy_Mag


    Who will bring that political pressure?

    Can You actually answer that? Like who, name names please.

    Why has that political pressure not happened in the last TWO and a half years to such an extent Israel gets banned?

    Dave Courell, CEO of the FAI has already stated a boycott by the FAI will bring "SERIOUS CONSEQUENCES" for the FAI and for the longer term health of soccer in this country. The actual CEO, of the FAI yet you keep downplaying this as an after thought and keep suggesting its over exaggerated by me.

    So why is Dave Courell making this known? Is he pro-Israeli for taking this stance or maybe, just maybe, he has the livelihoods of hundreds of people to consider and cannot just go with the populist choice.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,224 ✭✭✭Paddy_Mag


    What precedent are you talking about? Israel have been playing matches under the UEFA competition banner the last two and a half years. Is that not a precedent too?



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