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Ireland vs Israel - To play or not to play, that is the question Read OP for Mod Warning

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,224 ✭✭✭Paddy_Mag


    Would it be horrible for FAI employees if some lost their jobs? Absolutely.

    Would that alone make it the wrong action to take? No.

    So, the FAI run the risk of employees losing their jobs is OK by you, am I reading that right?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,017 ✭✭✭✭osarusan


    I've no issue with any of that.

    But 'it'll achieve nothing' is a very different argument to 'doing it would cost too much' which is the argument I was criticising in my original post.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 9,719 ✭✭✭Backstreet Moyes


    What will it achieve that will benefit the people of Palestine?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,224 ✭✭✭Paddy_Mag


    Yeah but a boycott is likely to achieve very little and WILL have severe consequences for The FAI



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,017 ✭✭✭✭osarusan


    Now we are into unknown territory.

    It might achieve nothing.

    It might achieve something - perhaps there'd be a domino effect of teams refusing to play, bringing about more/different political pressure on or within Israel.

    But as I said, this is now a completely different argument (and one which I have no problem with) to the 'It'll cost too much' argument.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,622 ✭✭✭csirl


    I havent given anyone a free pass!

    You havent fact checked what you've said . The Russians were suspended for breaking identifiable sporting rules, And it was done through the correct channels - nobody unilaterally refused to play a scheduled game.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,224 ✭✭✭Paddy_Mag


    Where was this domino effect last November? Maybe because Many of The FA around Europe are every bit as reliant on UEFA money as the FAI. The whole reason the nations league concept was developed was to generate more money from international football.

    The FAI CEO already said there will be "serious consequences" for the FAI if they boycott the fixtures

    But yeah, let's take a stand and hope others follow and to hell with the consequences.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 5,831 ✭✭✭dmcdona


    I think you're misunderstanding my point. Perhaps read back the debate?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,622 ✭✭✭csirl


    Yes, my point is that sports bodies are not responsible for the actions of their government, no matter how bad those actions are. Like any other private organisation, they are only accountable for their own actions.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 5,831 ✭✭✭dmcdona


    As I said, you're giving Israel a free pass.

    Fair enough.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,622 ✭✭✭csirl


    Its not me giving anyone a free pass - Im not one of the decision makers in this!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 56,817 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    They represent the country that is led by a wanted war criminal and that committed genocide. A state that has continued to steal the lands and homes of Palestinians, invade Lebanon and murder people without any thought or fear.That should be enough. A Pariah. Their players served in the IDF and some probably did a bit of murdering in their time there.

    They should be nowhere near decent people.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 56,817 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    Nonsense. Their leader is a wanted war criminal and they have been cited for war crimes. 30,000 little children bombed, shot and starved to death. Five of their teams play from stolen lands in the WB.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 56,817 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    It would let the people of Palestine know that some country stood up against the murder of their children, 30,000 of them. Don't understand how you can't see that.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,224 ✭✭✭Paddy_Mag


    Thats lovely.

    I suspect they would much prefer to not get bombed though.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 56,817 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    The average of the children who were murdered was 5 years of age. I doubt they understood why they were being bombed, shot or starved. AND I doubt they thought about money or job loses either in case you are worried.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,224 ✭✭✭Paddy_Mag


    I am not worried actually, thanks for your concern though. Appreciate it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 56,817 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    Oh I knew you weren't worried about the Gazans.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,224 ✭✭✭Paddy_Mag




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,253 ✭✭✭wildgreen


    Even a nuclear bomb dropped by Israel on Tehran would not result in them being expelled from Tiddlywinks internationals



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,224 ✭✭✭Paddy_Mag




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 5,831 ✭✭✭dmcdona


    You seem quite animated at the ability of FAI employees to keep getting a monthly paycheck and paying their bills.

    But 70,000 exterminated Gazans is just "meh".

    You're perfectly entitled to that view of course. However, normal people with a functioning moral compass take a different view.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,224 ✭✭✭Paddy_Mag


    Define a "functioning moral compass" ?

    I fully support workers in Ireland who, if anything like me, and I would say most are, have a mortgage/bills to pay, family to provide for etc. We have real life issues at home around housing, cost of living, health care etc. The real life priorities of the People in this country which scores far higher on the poll then Gaza/Israel or Ukraine/Russia.

    But some people dont care about them. It does not fit in with their virtue signalling.

    People in this country have taken their own lives as a result of mess successive governments have made of the country.

    Men are taking their own lives’ – protesters at their wits’ end over rising fuel bills dig in

    Demonstrators vow to continue blockades until the Government listen

    This is a headine in the Indo today. Do their lives not matter?

    They want a boycott for their own moral virtues which puts the livelihood of people at risk however those same people dont have to deal with the consequences of said actions. They are basing it off their own desire to be seen and not based off any sort of reality which the CEO of the FAI pointed out.

    And the same people calling for a boycott wouldnt make the same decision about their own lives if the consequences were just as severe.

    They will use Israeli products, be it tech devices or insurance from a company who provides services to the Israeli state/military but they want someone else to take a stand. Thats not much of a moral compass if you ask me.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,080 ✭✭✭✭TheCitizen


    beginning to see behind your political views Paddy. You make perfectly valid points and arguments regarding the fuel protests and people’s livelihoods on the line. Having concern for people in Ireland struggling with financial issues and having concern for people in Gaza aren’t either/or issues.


    You keep talking about the danger to the employees at the FAI regarding these upcoming Israel fixtures and any possible cancellations or complications with the fixtures. I’ve said it before I don’t believe that the staff at the FAI would be hung out to dry over these games v Israel no matter what happens.

    Any worries re job cuts at the FAI would be much more connected to ongoing and historical financial problems at the organisation. Your conflation regarding that and this debate re the Israel fixtures is a bit of a red herring.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 5,831 ✭✭✭dmcdona


    All lives matter.

    Except they don't seem to for you and people like you.

    Even posters here who see that the football game has to go ahead (including me) have at least a modicum of compassion for those less fortunate and those who don't know if they or their family are about to wiped out by a warmongering state.

    And for the record, I sympathise with what the fuel protesters are protesting for - no-one wants high fuel prices. But those roadblocks are a disgrace - stopping people getting to hospital and getting to work - to earn money to put food on the table.

    There are plenty of ways to protest any principle - roadblocks are not it in this case. Perhaps there will be suicides as a result of those roadblocks - perhaps you'd change your tune then? Or will it be another "meh"?

    Hypocricy 101



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,224 ✭✭✭Paddy_Mag


    Ive posted a clip from OTB. The FAI are hanging on for Euro2028 and the €25m it brings. They are in survival mode until then.

    "UEFA pay the bills and the FAI are heavily reliant on them".

    You believe the staff at the FAI wont be hung out to dry. But you have nothing to support that. Just a piece of guess work.

    The CEO of the FAI has made it clear that the FAI failing to fulfil those fixtures has "serious consequences" for Irish football. Now he didnt specify what that means but financial penalties such as not getting the TV money, fines, sporting sanctions which could impact LOI clubs who make significant money from UEFA too. (yes, I am guessing but every bit as much as you on the alternative). This is on top of cancelling a home game and the €4-5m that generates.

    And you are right, the FAI position is from historical issues. But those debts of €40m are significant. And those very financial issues have seen a round of redundancies currently happening, as in right now. They were announced only last month. That debt will not be cleared for another 10 years at least according to Paul Cooke and the money to do just that is intrinsically linked to UEFA.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,080 ✭✭✭✭TheCitizen


    my guess is as good as yours Paddy.

    Your guess though appears to be all wrapped up in a political mindset where domestic issues are (understandably) put first but in your mindset you seem eager that domestic issues ‘trump’ any concerns re international issues. Constantly Describing folk who have genuine concerns for the people of Gaza as “virtue signallers” a bit of a giveaway remark Paddy.

    My guess (as someone who can have concern for domestic political issues at the same time as having concerns over international political issues), is I don’t think the future of the FAI and everyone who works there will be determined by these Israel matches. I don’t believe that any decision regarding those games will be taken solely by the FAI and they won’t be left to carry the can on any outcome. The FAI’s problems are connected to matters re performance at admin levels and continuing scrutiny of financial affairs as they’ve been bailed out by the taxpayer for several years.


    You’d have local regional FA organisations that are making plenty of money because the numbers on the ground playing soccer at grassroots levels is stronger than ever and the domestic league seems in better nick than ever. We’re kind of going off the point, my point really is that I think you are over exaggerating any potential fallout for the FAI regarding this particular issue with the fixtures v Israel. Neither here nor there in the grand scheme of things financially for the FAI and their employees I reckon.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 849 ✭✭✭JohnDoe2025


    Why 70,000 Gazans, and not 33,000 Iranians killed by their own government?

    Why not the millions killed in numerous wars in Africa?

    Why not the Tibetans and others oppressed by the Chinese government?

    Why not the Afghan women enslaved by the Taliban?

    What not the thousands killed building stadiums for the World Cup in Qatar? That actually is relevant to football.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,224 ✭✭✭Paddy_Mag


    The CEO of the FAI says if the FAI boycott the games there will be "serious consequences"

    He added that there was “every potential that there will be greater ramifications for Irish football - reputational, financial, operational.

    “The reality is, we're talking solely in the lane of the men's national team here. But if we fail to qualify for Euro ‘28, you know the financial benefit that can bring for the association and the benefit it will bring to the grassroots game and every aspect of what we do.

    “So there is a big range of implications that extend beyond what we've included in that letter.

    “But we don't even need to go there. From a sporting perspective, it's not within the interest of Irish football not to fulfil these games. We are fulfilling the games.”

    The above is a direct quite from the CEO of the FAI

    But Yeah i am exaggerating.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,643 ✭✭✭✭nacho libre


    An excellent whataboutery defense; just cite another conflict to deflect criticism of a country you are keen to defend. What was the point of convicting the Serbian war criminals, when there were other conflicts where wrongdoers got off scott free. Also where more people were killed. The Russians should use the same sterling defense of their actions in Ukraine . As in a world full of conflict the singling out of them is clearly a witchhunt too. All these silly virtue signallers over Ukraine. They should only care about what's happening in Ireland.



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