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Is it time to join Nato

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,438 ✭✭✭brickster69


    The old world is dying, and the new world struggles to be born: now is the time of monsters. — Antonio Gramsci



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,147 ✭✭✭Randycove


    you are confusing NATO led UN coalitions with NATO.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 41,272 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    I'm partial to your abracadabra
    I'm raptured by the joy of it all



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,438 ✭✭✭brickster69


    Nato illegally attacked Yugoslavia which went against the Nato charter to only act in self defense and had no ermission from the UN to do so.

    This is common knowledge

    The old world is dying, and the new world struggles to be born: now is the time of monsters. — Antonio Gramsci



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,147 ✭✭✭Randycove


    only because Russia used their veto and were happy to let Milosevic continue his genocide. It was a flaw with the UN, not NATO.



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  • Site Banned Posts: 2,753 ✭✭✭thatsdaft


    Lol, those historical facts sure have boomeranged back at the CCP representative



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 33,049 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    That one of the worst things people can lay at NATO is that they stopped a genocide is certainly telling.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 132 ✭✭The Venus Project


    Jesse Ventura spoke out recently about Barron Trumps need to serve in the United States Military. My belief is that this is justified statement. If his father is starting wars and sending Americans to die, he should be willing to sacrifice himself and his own family if he has any integrity. A very close family member of mine was drafted in the late ‘60’s for Vietnam but dodged the draft by saying he had flat feet. The criticism of Trump rings true to me and makes me uncomfortable with my own family history in terms of military service in recent history. I have always said, that what America gave to my family, was immeasurable and that significant effort would be offered back to them in return for their generosity, kindness and sweetness. So soft and well spoken most of the educated Americans are that, they would embarrass the extremist crime and militant driven culture in - Yes – Ireland. MMA influenced toxicity masculinity and Yes, sickness. So much so, I have given a reminder to myself, to return the promise of prosperity, defence and generosity by rejecting my fellow countrymen in favour of these articulate Americans. By this I mean I was willing to go against my own country’s history and repay the debt by siding with NATO.

    Does this make me a disloyal to Ireland or willing to advocate sacrificing American lives for Irish security? Ventura, is one of the seminal authorities on war and Vietnam, however, my linkages with the State he was Governor of, Minnesota, are sweet. I have biblical ties with some of the organisations there in terms of what they have given this world and give to me. I have a great love for the state not least because the Scandinavian pioneers settled there and spawned literary greats like Garrisson Keilor’s Lake Wobegon. But more accurately, the fact that it was and has been the battle ground state for Democracy vs. Federal Republican Party interventionism, extremism and crimes in the past twenty years – solely the leader in it’s fight back in that regard amongst all other states.

    I have a great admiration for the people behind George Floyds movement BLM, and the fact an ICU nurse, Alex Pretti, was executed there while defenseless in terms of no weapons or arms, is close to my family’s history who have been attacked and assaulted while saving people's lives in ICU’s in the distant past. However, that was not led by the Federal Government. Also the execution of Renee Goode in her car defenseless is a great tragedy in America's history. It shows Minnesotas resolve to fight tyranny and stand up to the Federal Government when it’s city is invaded by them and people start getting killed. However, I return to the question whether America and Ireland should fight Russia or roll over. Am I with Trump by considering whether we should participate in the great game of chess, or with the Dems by condemning attacks on Iran?

    I can say, for my part, advocating for Ireland’s helping and siding with NATO, against our neutrality, is based in repayment to America, for many things not least saving the Irish people from famine and starvation. It wants allies and partners on the world stage, it has one in me, however little I can do to move the Irish population along towards the idea of supporting the defeat of Russia in my non-political private citizen situation. Is that wise – supporting the confrontation against Russia in a game of geo-politiccs? Would a complete laying down of arms and submission not be the wisest move the West could make? Is it feasible to lay down arms? Perhaps, but the people behind the confrontation with Russia, or more accuaretely, self-defence against them, have my political support, a non-politician and private citizen if war arises – perhaps what Ventura is saying is that my words don’t count unless I am willing to back it up and serve

    I played sports in my recent past however am not necessarily fit and agile. More like an 22 year old in a 37 year olds body. I have chronic arthritis and other conditions which have resulted in me being impaired physically and mentally, so much so I can barely get out of bed in the morning, due to sporting injuries. But the questions remains – would I be willing to put myself in the tutelage of what I see as the ethically questionable Defence Forces officers to serve on the off chance I make officer and can influence international political decisions on Defence. The likelihood is zero to none that the extremist wing in that organization would not cut me up in pieces and bury me alive metaphorically before I even made it past hell week. Having said that I believe their weakness, and yes there is great weakness in taking the contrarian position to the world order as many of them do in an individual capacity, is also malign, in terms of denouncing the sacrifices that were made before them to achieve it.

    I believe the great game of chess and geo-politics is relevant and exists. I believe, we should not take the underhanded contrarian position and go against the States because we have a history with England. I believe our position as quasi-communist state on the furthest reaches of outer Europe like some North Korea in strategic and supposedly moral sense is dwarfed by our ties to America. To reject NATO in an exactly similar, contrarian geo-political stance, to North Korea, against the world order in the Far-East, and us in the West, is extremist. Should we stand against the world order in our neutrality? Going against the crowd so to speak?? That in itself is sacrificing Irish lives for some extremist suicidal mission by going against the West.

    What we do know is that although we speak about defending Europe from Russia as we do now, we know that Ireland on the edge of Europe has people willing to go fundamentally against America and NATO, on extremist jaunts and adventures, and this has been seen via clandestine private military companies and contractors recruiting from the Defence Forces in recent years going to places like Libya to fight for the Russians. Separately, major international newspapers, including the New York Times and the Washington Post, have reported for years on how various extremist groups in the Middle East developed extensive tunnel networks and received different forms of support from terrorism related actors. Even the people behind the Oct 7th look to have had some sort of extremist help, of some kind at some stage in the supply chain, if even in the form of political support against Israel, by regional actors over the decades, or perhaps even tunnel building by connected terrorism related groups which may or may not have DF links..

    Jesse Ventura calls for Barron Trump to serve – and he does this for other like him like myself? One question begs whether the world would be better or worse for people willing to serve and go to war. What I do know is that I am the only one in Ireland standing up to extremism and scumbags in both the sporting, middle class and military systems – and that I will exempted when the **** hits the fan and all of you won’t when the East loses. What I also know is that there are Irish people with contacts in the universities in América in my generation and I won’t have that in the next generation but know this I would never lower myself or go near anyone offering me solace from that in Irish democracy. I am elite and come from the elite and will never give that up or allow anyone to take it from me.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 132 ✭✭The Venus Project


    Found this quote amusing:

    “There’s a simple thing as a leader, and you know this having been in the military. Trump wouldn’t know it because he’s a draft-dodging coward. But anyway it’s this: a war is justified if you’re willing to send your kids. Because how can you send somebody else’s kids to a war if you won’t send your own?”



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 132 ✭✭The Venus Project


    Hi, I have another post on the malignancy or not of those networks over on the Epstein thread. I strongly recommend you check it out.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,174 ✭✭✭Glenomra


    NATO is 'on its last legs' imo. It will be replaced with a number of new European military alliances. No point in joining NATO as it currently is!



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 33,049 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Well, unfortunately we are constitutionally banned from joining any EU common defence.



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