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Transgender man wins women's 100 yd and 400 yd freestyle races.

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,801 ✭✭✭randd1


    If it has a penis, it's a man, and if it has a vagina, it's a woman. It's a basic standard to work from.

    Obviously there's all sorts in between, nature being a weird beats of many faces and all that, but if we can start off with that basic standard, and work from there, we can at least see a common ground.

    Khelif isn't someone who decided as a teenager this wasn't for them. She has a vagina, and has been raised and treated as a woman her whole life, until very recently.

    Now, obviously there is something going on inside, no-one disputes that, but at the very least acknowledge she's a woman.

    PS - It's also amazing how quickly those with penis=man and vagina=woman viewpoints quickly abandon such a perspective when it comes to speaking out at what they think is "woke", like a someone with a vagina and raised as female her entire life participating in women's sport. And how quickly pronouns suddenly matter when they do. It's almost as if it's the "wokeness" or them participating that they're offended by more than anything else. Then again, if they didn't have "woke" to offend them, what else would they do?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,603 ✭✭✭Large bottle small glass


    DSD are the key front in this issue.

    It's much much harder to argue for someone born John, with a big jaw, male sex organs etc etc who identifies as Jean and wants to win a goal medal.

    To argue for Jean, you need to turn logic on it's head ignore science and only use irrational emotional arguments.

    DSD/intersex, while being rare, are poorly understood and allow for sympathy for Jean to grow; rooted in ignorance of the general population and fed by bad faith actors in the media.

    It really shows how terrible the argument for non DSD trans athletes is when they keep pulling the needle to where the waters are a little muddy but crystal clear once you actually look at the sex and the power of testosterone on the young teenage body.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 4,230 ✭✭✭Enduro


    If it has a penis, it's a man, and if it has a vagina, it's a woman. It's a basic standard to work from.

    Obviously there's all sorts in between, nature being a weird beats of many faces and all that, but if we can start off with that basic standard, and work from there, we can at least see a common ground.

    We are under no obligation to join you in your ignorance of science, irrespective of whether you label such ignorance as "common ground" or "basic standards". You're just plain wrong, and I, for one, will not be joining you in your delusions.

    This might be a futile attempt, but try to look up the actual scientific definition of male and female. It might save you from publicly revealing your utter lack of knowledge and understanding. The first clue is it is not defined by the presence or absence of either a vagina or a penis. The first thing that Google returns back is this Wikipedia page :

    Scroll down to the Scientific section and read the "In Biology" opening paragraph.

    Oh by the way, Sex is Binary. DSDs doesn't change that fact. More homework for you.

    As an aside, it's interesting that your argument is also completely ruling out a transwoman from being allowed to participate in the female category in sports. On that, at least, you'll get complete agreement.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,016 ✭✭✭✭volchitsa


    By that standard, Khelif is male though:

    image.png

    Or here:

    image.png

    But as I said previously, having a penis is a consequence in humans of being a normal healthy male, not the definition of the concept. It's possible to be male without a penis: David Reimer, the little boy whose penis was amputated as a result of surgery going wrong, and who was put in the clutches of child abuser and trans ideologist Dr John Money as a result, remained male despite having a surgically constructed vulva and all of Money's attempts to socialise him into being a girl.

    And coming back to Imane Khelif, it's not those photos above that prove to me that he is male, but rather ones like this:

    image.png

    Khelif is from a conservative region of Algeria and as a child wasn't really allowed to do boxing initially because their father supposedly disapproved of girls doing sport at all - yet we're supposed to believe that nobody in the family has a problem with photos like this being made public? If that were a woman, an honour killing would be on the cards.

    Seriously.

    I haven't responded to the rest of your post in detail because it's unrelated to my opinions on this issue. I will just say that pronouns don't matter, you are correct. What matters is biological sex. And someone with a DSD that only affects males, and who has an adult male body (a very, very few DSDs can cause a genetically male child to remain insensitive to androgens and therefore not to go through male puberty) should not be competing against women without their express consent - and all the more so when it's a contact sport where they are literally getting punched by a man.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,056 ✭✭✭donaghs


    Ronaldo Otto, aka Samantha Otto, was this week convicted again of another sex assault on a young male: https://www.laois-nationalist.ie/sex-offender-jailed-after-sex-assault-on-vulnerable-young-man_arid-88400.html

    while still serving a suspended sentence.

    It looks like the original conviction was for sexually assaulting the teenager in Rathmines. The second for for throwing boiling water on a man at a casino who spurned his sexual advances. This one was reported in some media as "she":

    https://www.crimeworld.com/ireland/woman-who-poured-boiling-water-over-mans-face-in-casino-blames-incident-on-five-glasses-of-guinness-bender/a/104263453.html

    Why is the person still in Ireland?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 4,230 ✭✭✭Enduro


    Very big and very good development:

    So what started in Athletics is now being rolled out across the entire range of Olympic sports. At the moment, this only applies to elite-level sports. Hopefully it will roll downwards through all levels of sports so that the Female category becomes protected across the board.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,726 ✭✭✭Benedict XVI




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 43,671 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    It is unclear how many, if any, transgender women are competing at Olympic level.

    No woman who transitioned from being born male competed at the Paris 2024 Olympics.

    Yeah. We Won!!! 😕



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 4,230 ✭✭✭Enduro


    We know with 100% certaintanty that there has been one. That's one too many. From now on the figure will be zero. Yup, a win for female sports. 100% definitely.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 43,671 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    Name this transgender person you will claim was 1?

    the figure will be zero.

    It was zero, unless you don't believe the news report you linked to.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,040 ✭✭✭ceadaoin.


    Transgender or not is irrelevant. At least one male competed against women in the 2024 Olympics. Now all males are banned in the womens competition, regardless of how they might identify. Yes, that's a win for fairness and safety in womens sports.

    Khelif himself, nor anyone else, ever claimed he was transgender, just that he was a male. This has since been proven. If khelif did claim to be trans, what material difference would it make? A male person is a male person and that will never change



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 18,599 Mod ✭✭✭✭CatFromHue


    The reference point in women's sport is female. From that point a male with certain DSD's or a transwomen is the same as a female who's been, or is, taking PED's. We don't allow that to happen and it's the same argument for male with certain DSDs or transwomen.

    Bringing in a new test to catch out PED users is usually welcomed.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 4,230 ✭✭✭Enduro


    Laurel Hubbard is a transgender athlete who competed in the Olympics in the female category, despite being male. This was made very clear in the article I linked. That is one person too many. Now it will not be possible for that to happen in the future. That's a definite win for Female sports. 100% winning.

    Quinn is another transgender athlete who has competed at the Olympics (twice). But they wouldn't have any problems competing under the new rules.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 43,671 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    Laurel Hubbard is a transgender athlete

    Didn't compete at Paris.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 4,230 ✭✭✭Enduro


    So what? Quinn (a transgender athlete) did compete at Paris.

    Laurel Hubbard competed at the Olympics. That's one too many. From now on the figure will be zero. Yup, a win for female sports. 100% definitely.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 43,671 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    Again

    It is unclear how many, if any, transgender women are competing at Olympic level.

    No woman who transitioned from being born male competed at the Paris 2024 Olympics.

    The permanently outraged don't care about Quinn. No scare mongering to be had there.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 43,671 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    Khelif himself, nor anyone else, ever claimed he was transgender, just that he was a male. This has since been proven.

    Link?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 4,230 ✭✭✭Enduro


    And again, Laurel Hubbard competed at the Olympics. There's nothing precious about Paris to distinguish it as being the one unique Olympics that "counts". That's one Male sex athlete too many competing in the female category. From now on the figure will be zero. Yup, a win for female sports. 100% definitely.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 43,671 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    So 1. In the history of the Olympics.

    Thank God for this 315 page thread.

    Like I said, we won.

    Back now to fear mongering about trans people jumping out of laundry baskets.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 4,230 ✭✭✭Enduro


    And again… That's one Male sex athlete too many competing in the female category. From now on the figure will be zero. Yup, a win for female sports. 100% definitely.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 43,671 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    A proper win for female sports would be people to stop pretending to care about them and actually support them.

    What do you reckon?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 4,230 ✭✭✭Enduro


    I know I do, being an active volunteer administrator, as well as still competing in mixed events.

    How about you? Are you just pretending to care so you can score a win on the internet, or do you do anything substantial in real life to support female sports?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 43,671 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    I have no idea what an "active volunteer administrator" is. New one.

    I coach, but it isn't about me.

    I do look forward to the thread discussing actual support for womens sports, maybe it exists already, I assume you are active in it.

    Link?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 4,230 ✭✭✭Enduro


    This is a thread which generally shows active support for women's sport. It might be beyond you to understand that, but I can't really help you there.

    A volunteer administrator in a sporting context is someone who helps to administer the functioning of the sport (usually in a formal role) in a voluntary (that's both unpaid, and done willingly) capacity. Every sporting governing body, and indeed most clubs, have administrators. I hope that helps with your understanding. You clearly must be new to sports to not be aware of this.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 4,230 ✭✭✭Enduro


    A good follow-up analysis article from one of the Guardian's sports journos…

    It covers all the broad reasoning and thinking (and scientific backing) behind the changes, and includes pretty much every point that a poster here tried to invalidate.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 304 ✭✭AugustRain


    I hope that in years to come there will be an investigation into how this clown show was ever allowed to gain the traction that it did. If only to prevent it from ever raising its extraordinarily ugly head again.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 2,894 ✭✭✭aero2k


    Who's we and what did you win?

    What's this about trans people and laundry baskets- link?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 8,825 ✭✭✭plodder


    Great news and particularly so that it happened under the leadership of a female head of the IOC and female director of health, medicine and science of the IOC. Good analysis piece by Sean Ingle in the Guardian

    https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2026/mar/26/why-olympics-u-turned-gender-rules-sex-testing

    “The opposite of 'good' is 'good intentions'”



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,750 ✭✭✭✭Frank Bullitt


    And then maybe you can stop pretending that transwomen don't have biological advantages over females.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,040 ✭✭✭ceadaoin.


    Why would anyone care about a biological female competing against other biological females? Quinn identifies as non binary, which doesnt change the material reality of biology, and presumably doesnt use testosterone (which is a banned substance in womens sports funnily enough) so therefore is competing fairly and within the rules



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