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Transgender man wins women's 100 yd and 400 yd freestyle races.

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Comments

  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 18,601 Mod ✭✭✭✭CatFromHue


    Tucker has put up a follow up, and much shorter podcast, about Gladwell, the event, and the timeline. In the main podcast they barely spoke about the trans stuff so there's a bit of context added and also reaction to other people's reaction to Gladwell's comments.

    I was going to come in and say that Gladwell was only the moderator so having not seen the debate maybe he wasn't that bad. There's a few clips knocking about social media and it looks like even saying transwomen are biological male seems to a contentious issue so maybe it was that bad.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 4,230 ✭✭✭Enduro


    Jeeze, some amount of traffic in here!

    They are trying to exclude transgender athletes.

    I suppose we should be thankful that you didn't resort to your walls of irrelevant text, and instead just went for a straightforward single sentance lie.

    Just because you keep repeating the same lie doesn't make it true, and is not going to convince any rational person that is true.

    All transgender competitors will be free to compete in their sex category under the rules. NOBODY is being excluded. You continuously repeating the same lie is not going to change that.

    Mate I don't care if you're the Queen of Sheba. You can only speak from your own experience, and that's of no value whatsoever when you come out with nonsense like claiming that because you've never heard of women being subjected to abuse in sports, the implication is that it doesn't happen. I didn't accuse you of lying, nor ignorance either when you lamented the fact that the Boston Marathon had made another category for non-binary runners and you posited that they would have a transgender category next. I've never run further than the local bakery and I could point out to you that they already had a transgender category, since 2018.

    I can speak from my own experience as someone who volunteers as an administrator in some of the sports I have competed in. And that is Waaaaaay more than you have, MATE! You're an internet nobody with absolutely nothing to back up your disgusting assertions about the motivations of sports administrators.

    Your lies about administrators' motivation just reflects your absolutely desperate need to see bad motivation and oppression everywhere, presumably so you can come in as the great saviour to rescue the poor oppressed.

    I see you can't stand behind your own assertions now, and try to shift the subject to something else, in this case "women being subjected to abuse in sports", which is not what you were referring to, and not what I was referring to. More lies. You can't seem to help yourself with the continuous lying.

    And I haven't a feckin clue what nonsense your on about WRT the boston marathon.

    It's still not irrelevant, and the fact that you're on 2 sports governing bodies (out of thousands of governing bodies in sports) doesn't mean you get to dictate the rules of the discussion when the discussion isn't going your way. Throwing your toys out of the pram doesn't help your argument either.

    I'd guess that my two is infinitely larger than your likely ZERO!

    I'm not dictating the discussion. I'm pointing out your disgusting lies about peoples' (including me in this case) motivation for their actions on sports governing bodies. You assert those lies without anything to back them up apart from, it would seem, your own prejudice against anyone who does more than sit on their computer pumping out endless volumes of word salad, and instead goes out into the real world to work to make the world a better place in some small way (in this case, by helping to administer sports).

    I meet these people. I interact with them. I've got a good idea what their motivations are. You have nothing but your own evidence free prejudice



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 4,230 ✭✭✭Enduro


    I really thought you were talking about yourself with the bolded part, hilarious. You have never provided evidence of reputable value here, ever. The volume of evidence to show males having advantages over females is extensive. No one can help you if you choose to ignore it though. It is basic science, the type that you learn in school…

    😁 Thanks for saving me the typing. I couldn't agree more!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 4,230 ✭✭✭Enduro


    And in the real world, more progress…

    It would be massive progress if the biggest sports organisation ensured that only females would be eligible to compete in the female category. If this progresses into solid action, it will hopefully ensure that this applies across all events in the Olympics.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,057 ✭✭✭donaghs


    Maybe its time for the Irish government's chief scientific advisor to step in and tell them all to get rid of women-only sports entirely :)

    "The origin of sex-differentiated sports is not to protect women's sports but to marginalise them." (2022).

    https://x.com/aoifemcl/status/1533482588819574784

    https://www.gov.ie/en/department-of-further-and-higher-education-research-innovation-and-science/biographies/professor-aoife-mclysaght-2/

    (the same person in December 2020 said about retail shops opening before Christmas: "If we open one sector of the economy, then the other sectors will just not be able to open ever again.

    "We'll never see our restaurants and pubs open again if we open retail now.")



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 973 ✭✭✭greyday




  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 18,601 Mod ✭✭✭✭CatFromHue


    That's just athletics too.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,008 ✭✭✭Hamsterchops


    Regarding the ongoing World Athletics Championships in Tokyo. American middle distance runner Nikki Hiltz may we'll be the last ever runner to identify as "trans" in either the World Athletics Championships or the Olympic Games !!

    Admittedly her form of transness is not controversial, as she (female) stays within the female catagory, even though she "identifies" as trans non-binary.

    However, the days of trans identifying men entering the female catagory are over, same for men with male DSDs, who from now on will not now be permitted to enter the female catagory.

    Happy happy days from now on … for the women's events, although one cannot help feeling sorry for those women & girls who have gone before and who were cheated out of medals in past championships.

    https://youtube.com/shorts/fXro-_fk4qg?si=gv3pWJN2Gt1pt8Kz



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,336 ✭✭✭Mr.Wemmick


    Absolutely.. gut-wrenching pity for those women and girls who lost out for so long. Females who were demonised and threatened by the organisations that should have supported and protected them, or at the very least allowed them their right to speak-up free from tyranny and professional exclusion.

    It’s really quite mind-boggling shocking how this was allowed to go for so long.

    With our wide-reaching and entrenched misogyny - anything from screaming vile threats/insults at women and girls to the normal intelligent reasonable articulate bloke casually dismissing women by saying “What harm? There are so few of them..” - we can clearly see the very coat tails this harmful ideology carried itself on for far too long.



    ”I hate who steals my solitude without, in exchange, offering true company.” - F. Nietzsche



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 8,827 ✭✭✭plodder


    Also, that's refreshingly clear language from Sean Ingle in The Guardian. No embarrassment or obfuscation around the terms "biologically male" or "biologically female".

    World Athletics has introduced SRY screening, a gene test that uses a cheek swab to assess if someone is biologically male or female, for the world championships in Tokyo.

    For what it's worth, I remember a while back when the thinking wasn't as clear, a woman on an RTE panel who revealed that she has PCOS, and was basically wondering would women with that condition be "targeted next" because it also results in higher than normal T levels in women, and it also corelates with greater sporting success. But, that way of thinking is very wrong and resulted from the previous attempts to define the female category in terms of Testosterone levels, rather than the obvious actual differences between men and women. Nobody has ever argued that women with PCOS aren't actually women.

    “The opposite of 'good' is 'good intentions'”



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,016 ✭✭✭✭volchitsa


    And worth pointing out too that the woman was completely misinformed about the risk of women with PCOS ever being “confused” with males with DSDs: the levels of testosterone found in women with PCOS are less than half of even the lowest levels of testosterone in the normal male range. Even in women with ovarian cancer, where testosterone levels can be massively higher than normal, levels are still generally going to be well below the lowest normal range for males.

    It’s also self evidently a mad idea to think that having ovarian cancer or PCOS could lead someone to be considered to be a man - I mean, what clearer evidence is there of being female than to develop cancer (or other illness) in an organ that is only found in women? It’s like saying the HCG levels found in someone with testicular cancer might lead them to be declared pregnant. Abnormal levels are evidence of illness - not an indication of being the opposite sex.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,650 ✭✭✭J.O. Farmer


    I'm also not sure I would associate PCOS with greater athletic success. It would seem to me to be a condition which would be more likely to hinder than help.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 8,827 ✭✭✭plodder


    Mod Edit: Warned for posting an entirely AI related post which is a breach of the forum charter.

    Post edited by Necro on

    “The opposite of 'good' is 'good intentions'”



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,016 ✭✭✭✭volchitsa


    That’s a good question.

    It’s certainly been suggested that, intuitively at least, the higher rates of testosterone found in women with PCOS might be enough to give them a sufficient edge over non PCOS athletes so they’d be over represented in elite sports, but this study from July 2025 finds fewer women with PCOS taking part in collegiate sports than the average rates for women not in elite sports:

    I think the conclusion is that it’s not so much the levels of testosterone on the day of the competition that gives either DSD males or trans identifying males an unfair advantage in the female category, but rather having gone through male puberty. That’s irreversible.

    But even if women with PCOS did turn out to be over represented in elite sports, it’s still a different question to having males in the female category. For women with PCOS it’s closer to the problem of what medications are allowed therapeutically for asthma and similar, knowing that they can also be used abusively. Women taking fertility drugs have been banned from competition, which seems equally unfair - but oddly enough nobody important seemed moved to protest that. Almost as though women’s rights only matter to sports writers and the like when males are adversely affected by an issue.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,057 ✭✭✭donaghs


    Interesting the Irish Indo refers to this person (biological man who identifies as female) as a man. Is this a sign of changing times?

    https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/man-handed-three-year-sentence-for-sexual-assault-given-six-more-months-in-custody-for-throwing-boiling-water/a1221220793.html



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 8,827 ✭✭✭plodder


    Definitely a good sign. John Boyne is being interviewed by Oliver Callan at this moment, and they didn't shy away from the controversy, which is good also. Hard to say whether Callan was just channeling the best of the opposing point of view (which doesn't amount to much) or whether he believes it himself. But, questions like - why are you writing for such deplorables as the Daily Telegraph don't inspire much confidence. I got the impression that the sub-text from Callan was an attempt to get Boyne to shutup as well.

    “The opposite of 'good' is 'good intentions'”



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 4,230 ✭✭✭Enduro


    Caster has been referenced many times in this thread. There's been a major update on her legal battle :

    So the new athletics Female category eligibility rules involving SRY testing will not be challenged from this particular angle.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,008 ✭✭✭Hamsterchops


    Swimming Australia moves to shut down Mollie O’Callaghan ‘fake quotes’ about transgender athlete.
    • Quote falsely attributed to star swimmer posted on Facebook and X
    • World Aquatics rules bar Lia Thomas from competing in female category

    Swimming Australia has moved to shut down “fake news” and “fabricated quotes” linked to swimmer Mollie O’Callaghan about transgender athlete Lia Thomas.

    A comment attributed to O’Callaghan but not posted from her social media account has appeared in posts on Meta platform Facebook, as well as on X, and suggested the swimming star would not participate in the 2028 LA Games if a transgender swimmer is allowed to compete.

    The quote falsely attributed to O’Callaghan included a provocative statement that “sharing a pool with Lia Thomas is truly an insult and a disgrace”.

    Swimming Australia backed the Olympic champion in a statement headlined with “fake quotes attributed to Dolphin Mollie O’Callaghan”.

    Full Story Here > https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2025/oct/13/mollie-ocallaghan-fake-quotes-transgender-athlete-lia-thomas-meta-swimming-australia#:~:text=A%20

    To be honest I'm a bit confused about this story. So the swimmer is apologising for a fake tweet that said she wouldn't compete in the 2028 Olympics if men like Lia Thomas are allowed to compete in the women's races. I think that's what it's' about?

    But then why would she apologise?

    Not clear to me what's going on with this story..



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,041 ✭✭✭Call me Al


    Where is the swimmer apologising? From my reading the article is about a statement from the organisation, and is simply saying it's fake news and that she hasn't made any statements to media about any of this.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,008 ✭✭✭Hamsterchops


    Thanks, as I say I'm confused by the story.

    So swimmer Mollie O’Callaghan didn't send a text saying it would be an insult and a disgrace to share the pool with Lia Thomas. So then, does that mean she doesn't support the opinion of the fake quote?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,041 ✭✭✭Call me Al


    The article makes no reference to a text or an apology, so I take it you're referring to details not in the article.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,423 ✭✭✭patnor1011


    I am not exactly convinced that muslims are sympathetic to lgbt++++ cause or even appreciating their "help" whatever that may be. From muslim women in sports to gaza stuff they seems to be frowning at the mere thought of being associated with lgbt++++ people or cause.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 8,674 ✭✭✭El Gato De Negocios


    https://www.thetimes.com/article/b1681efe-06d3-459b-8a2a-8d352c4eb20d?shareToken=848eaf547546fb5c1d055513823e943b

    Surprise Surprise but scientific research has shown that there are maintained advantages from male puberty that hormone suppressants cannot remove. As such, men that now identify as women are banned from Olympic competitions. Common sense once again prevails.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 18,601 Mod ✭✭✭✭CatFromHue


    It's amazing that it's taken so long to get here.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,752 ✭✭✭✭Frank Bullitt


    Finally! Just shows that common sense really isn't that common.

    This argument was already put to bed, but now it REALLY is put to bed.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 8,674 ✭✭✭El Gato De Negocios


    I wonder will the women just need to train harder brigade have anything to add.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,254 ✭✭✭RoyalCelt


    Praise the lord. Common sense, science and morality has prevailed over the evil movement that promoted this.

    Anyone on here that support males competing against women need to take a long hard look at themselves.

    The world is only just beginning to heal. As a father of a young family this was not the world I wanted my kids brought into.

    There needs to be an investigation into how we got hoodwinked here in the first place. Who was pulling the strings?

    Edit: hi guys just to clarify this post isn't mocking the moderators on here.

    Post edited by RoyalCelt on


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 18,601 Mod ✭✭✭✭CatFromHue




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,043 ✭✭✭ceadaoin.


    That's way more than denial, it's complete delusion. Thinking that these men have "always been female" and it's just that their birth certificate is wrong is on a par with believing in the tooth fairy. Absolute nonsense



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,752 ✭✭✭✭Frank Bullitt




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