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LUAS Network + Future Expansion

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Comments

  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 5,760 Mod ✭✭✭✭spacetweek


    I personally believe this will kill the Metro to Sandyford 

    You mean it would enable it to proceed, making it more likely.

    Though the Luas routing in the map makes it look like either upgraded green line will only go as far as Kilmacud, or there will be parallel Luas and metro tracks from kilmacud to Sandyford. Hopefully the latter.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,797 ✭✭✭spillit67


    Nope. When you look at capacity, this will “solve” Sandyford.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,907 ✭✭✭AngryLips


    Well if they're extending the red line to Ringsend anyway then they could just keep going further with it to make full use of this alignment.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,259 ✭✭✭✭murphaph


    There really is no need to overcomplicate this by trying to force the eastern bypass alignment into a radial Luas line as proposed. GL upgrade to Metro at least as far south as Sandyford-this should be an absolute no brainer and assumed in any planning related to PT in south Dublin. It's even more of a no-brainer than DU because it's just an upgrade of something we already have. We could pump buses into ML from the badly served areas of south Dublin like Rathfarnham, Terenure etc. and that would buy us time to fix the issues there. N11 Luas to Bray is an obvious corridor, low hanging fruit if ever there was any. Branch off N11 to continue to make use of existing Sandyford-Bride's Glen Luas alignment (assuming Metro never goes south of Sandyford) while providing good interchange to ML at Sandyford.

    We have to start thinking about redundancy and interchange more and stop cheaping out to "save" a few quid by delivering bargain basement solutions. The proposed hybrid route plus the Green Line would be hobbled by an incident at Kilmacud. Having two independent parallel routes linked by an orbital Luas adds resilience to the network. If one goes down, the other is still somewhat reachable. There is an obvious enough onward path for an orbital Luas following the R113 towards Tallaght. Other options like Barton Rd. East also seem fairly wide, but might involve a short tunnel section(s) under Dundrum to really work reliably. We need to be prepared to look at putting Luas underground where necessary to avoid bottlenecks. We've got a lot of wide distributor roads that lend themselves well to Luas, but not fully automated metro but there are still many shorter choke points that nullify the benefit of those wide suburban roads. Tunneling under them should be considered.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,797 ✭✭✭spillit67


    I don’t think it’s a redundancy to use the EBP.

    This is thinking of things incrementally rather than the the big bang obsession we have which leaves a lot of projects on the shelf.

    Issues at the moment;

    • largest university in Ireland isn’t connected to rail
    • Sandyford Luas is becoming overcrowded
    • More development is being shovelled into south east Dublin and north Wicklow

    This is a relatively low cost way to provide a solution that would fix all these things for 25+ years and wouldn’t stop future changes like upgrading Sandyford to Metro (it would enable it) or continuing the Luas down the N11 further or an orbital line.

    Cost is naturally an inhibiting factor on all these things. It’s not one like not connecting the two Luas lines originally though. That was a waste.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,797 ✭✭✭spillit67


    Looking at it again (and it was mentioned before on this), is the potential bottleneck around Sandyford of trams. Another line at least would need to be added along the Kilmacud to Sandyford stretch. Doable by removing the parking I would think.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,552 ✭✭✭✭cgcsb


    If another high capacity rail line is built in South East Dublin in advance of other long promised projects there may well be a revolution and public executions



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9 carraigin


    Balkanisation isn't merely geographic but also financial. If money is concentrated in one place, that's where the investments will go. On that note, before expanding the network it might be beneficial to try running the existing one better. Scalability comes to mind.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,797 ✭✭✭spillit67


    This is so boring but is said over and over.

    Are you referring to two rail lines that were largely laid 200 years ago (in the case of one of them)?

    Why not say the same thing about the northside?

    The Red Line and Green Line extension (one laid 25 years ago and since extended, one laid 10 years ago) go through the northside. The Green Line is getting a further upgrade.

    Both new DART services predominately run through the northside (and then out west and south west) in the city centre. These are directly comparable to the existing DART services, which of course already runs through the northside (with a far bigger catchment too).

    The Northside is also getting MetroLink, the biggest rail project in the history of the State.

    Inane point brought up repeatedly on here which doesn’t comport to the real world.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,797 ✭✭✭spillit67


    Which is not happening.

    What we are referring to is a light rail line running over an old railway line to Bray and also over a protected site for a road. There is a minimal amount of “new” track, none of which would go underground.

    On the road, that would be the same Eastern Bypass that was never built, meaning the South East has some of the worst traffic in the State. This is the one part of the orbital route for the city never constructed, meaning traffic pours directly into this part of Dublin. And despite this, more and more building has been put down there.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,552 ✭✭✭✭cgcsb


    Some people need to develop a sense of humour it seems. Metrolink Lias Finglas and DART+ West will of course rebalance things, assuming they come first.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,797 ✭✭✭spillit67


    “Rebalance”- the best infrastructure will be quite clearly focused on the northside. Already roads are focused on this, it will be the same for transport.

    DSW also serves the Northside btw.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9 carraigin


    It is by no means wrong to upgrade the network. For a little while, I believe traffic would be decongested and people would find commuting an enjoyable experience. However, public transport runs downstream from macroeconomic and societal factors. If those are not addressed with proper policies, your upgrade will amount to a plaster over a gaping wound and your plaster will eventually fall off. If the private sector continues pursuing unsustainable, union-busting and price-gouging business models that rely on artificially high demand (high inbound volumes of traffic not just from locals but short-stay visitors, transients etc.), it would only be a matter of months before the expanded network performed just like the current one does. My question is, why should the state accommodate the dreams of absentee millionaires and billionaires?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,552 ✭✭✭✭cgcsb


    I think 'will be' is a key caveat here. Especially given that we have a government that has defunded DART SW in favour of yet more regional roads and tokenistic reports on some 'west on track' brain farts.

    Anyway it was a tongue in cheek statement.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,554 ✭✭✭csirl


    +1 on this. Would be political suicude for any Government who approved it ahead of those parts of Dublin with nothing.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,797 ✭✭✭spillit67




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,797 ✭✭✭spillit67




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,878 ✭✭✭BlueSkyDreams


    who is making unnecessary or artificial journeys just for the craic?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,056 ✭✭✭donaghs


    it’s quite misleading. The n11 into town from UCD was never part of the Eastern Bypass. And presumably, once you get to Donnybrook, a twin track luas would barely allow for any vehicle traffic?

    Is there really much left of the eastern bypass lands? You could take a chunk of UCD beside Foster Avenue. I think they’ve been building on the land near goatstown/mount anville school recently.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9 carraigin


    The service industry and hospitality are not sustainable. Pushing a city past its carrying capacity is a form of bailout. Dublin's businesses are so far removed from capitalism the place might as well be occupied by Russian military at this point. Dubs have been put to sleep by the lullaby of money and a thorough Muscovification is well underway. Instead of putting people on a path to car ownership and home ownership, the techno-fascist absentee billionaire class want to turn it into a colony of perpetual backpackers and contactless payment subjects whose bank accounts will be frozen if they are caught criticising their company. That is how Russians live. Ireland can do better than that. No expansion of the Luas network is necessary. Businesses just need to apply sustainability, quality and productivity to their industrial processes and invest in their customers and staff respectively.



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  • Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 11,314 Mod ✭✭✭✭CatInABox




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,552 ✭✭✭✭cgcsb




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 795 ✭✭✭JohnDoe2025


    Yes, at Donnybrook, car traffic would have to be significantly curtailed. Assume cars will be required to turn right or left at Donnybrook garage, with straight on for access only.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,878 ✭✭✭BlueSkyDreams


    How is hospitality not sustainable? No Luas extensions?



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 24,122 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    The BusConnects infrastructure changes on that corridor will already significantly curtail traffic using that corridor. With no access between Lesson Street and Stephen’s Green for cars (it will be bus only) and also a bus lighting access system on the Donnybrook Road. The latter might not be good enough for a Luas line, but nothing some CPOing couldn’t take care off.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,878 ✭✭✭BlueSkyDreams


    Which road access across the canal will remain open for cars?

    Will cars be able to cross the canal at baggot street or charlemont street for example.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 328 ✭✭Ronald Binge Redux


    1000033942.gif

    It's nothing to do with your vorsprung durch technik, you know!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9 carraigin


    If brewing is going to be outsourced to East Asia, it is suggestive of an economic downturn. What is essentially a class war is being framed as an infrastructure problem. Businesses ought to stop punching down and commit to smart investments instead of upgrading CEO pay scales. As such, a capitalist state has no obligation to subsidise inefficient companies with more thoroughfares and ports of entry for prospective customers. Besides, what exactly is there to do in Dublin? The city has become a cultural and commercial wasteland, fragmented into pockets of low-output service establishments à la 15-minute city.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,797 ✭✭✭spillit67


    Leeson Street Bridge a challenge too, you’d suspect. Would a dive under make some sense? It would obviously be more costly but make it easier from Leeson Street to Morehampton Road. The bend at Donnybrook Road at the Crescent also makes this tricky (the Kielys site should have been retained imo).



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,878 ✭✭✭BlueSkyDreams


    Inefficient companies?

    Dublin has the 3rd highest GDP of any city in the EU.

    We need investment in transport as priority to sustain and build growth in the future.



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