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Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

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Comments

  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 33,849 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Keenan isn't as physical overall as Osborne but he's a fullback so who cares?

    He is as physical in the areas he needs to be - contesting kick catches and tackling.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,876 ✭✭✭For Petes Sake


    Yes, I can. Especially if it's a support line off 12 that you're looking for, or are you shifting the goalposts on that one too?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 42,976 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    It comes up because he's played very little rugby for a long time now and he's turning 30 soon. Will he get back to the same level he was at? None of us know the answer and when you see a guy suddenly start getting injured it has a habit of continuing.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,726 ✭✭✭ersatz


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124325031#Comment_124325031

    Keenan has some of the best tackle technique in Ireland. Physicality is largely irrelevant to his game. I don't recall him ever being turned over on the ground and he rarely misses a tackle. Absolutely fantastic to have discovered Osbourne as an able backup. Hansen and Frawley also makes a decent fist at 15 so its one area we've gone from being very weak depth wise to a position where we are well covered to a. very high level.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 4,044 ✭✭✭50HX


    Not moving any goalpost

    I initially said Osbourne is more physical type of player..thats just an opinion of mine, you don't agree thats grand too.

    I could never see Keenan as a centre..thats also just my opinion.

    Keenan is a super athlete & covers the backline excellently.

    I just gave an alternative to starting someone else in certain type games.

    We are not in a Johnny Sexton situation at fullback now where for example at RWC27 Keenan is not required to start every game as we have developed alternatives.

    Didn't realise to suggest otherwise was such a hot topic for some



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,835 ✭✭✭standardg60


    Anyone who recalls Keenan's line against France in attack and his tackle on DVDM in defence for just two examples would not be placing Osborne anywhere near his level.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 42,976 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    I don't think anybody is putting him near the level Keenan was at. He's been praised for doing a great job in his absence.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,509 ✭✭✭visatorro


    Pundits pushing for otoole to play loose head for ulster, where does leave him for TH cover for Ireland if ulster move him across?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,803 ✭✭✭BoardsMember


    Keenan for 13 shirt. There, I said it. And its not so mad when you think about it. A worthy Ringrose 13 looks unlikely to appear before RWC. Why not give Keenan a run at 13 in a few tour games, just to see how well he goes.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,043 ✭✭✭johnh6767


    yes well said the ‘shiny new toy’ syndrome applies now to 9 also , Casey still well ahead of alternatives although still a big fall off in capability from JGP but no surprise there given he is currently Ireland’s most important player



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,640 ✭✭✭Felexicon




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,043 ✭✭✭johnh6767


    because he’s one of the top 15’s in the world



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 14,626 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    Or we could just play Osborne there, where he's done well before.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,793 ✭✭✭ElisaAtWar


    He better do what you say tommybojangles. I'm of the belief that he must and I believe that he believes he must. So let's see. First he needs to start playing team rugby at Connacht, and when I say team I mean playing as a team member.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,876 ✭✭✭For Petes Sake


    Literally the question I responded to which started this discussion was "Does Keenan walk back into the team?"

    The answer is yes. Every day of the week and twice on Sundays. Anyone who thinks otherwise is lying, or has no concept of what an outstanding footballer he is.

    Keenan would do a fine job at 13 the same way Osborne has done a fine job at 15.

    Seems madness to me to move one of the best 15s in the world out of position out of some stupid hypothetical to try and make a point but this is the level of nonsense we're at right now.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 70 ✭✭shinana abu


    James Hume has been the outstanding Irish 13 this season, no question and only 27



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,307 ✭✭✭TRC10


    I think there’s some selective memory going on here. From 2021-2023, Keenan was undoubtedly one of the best fullbacks in world rugby and probably the most complete 15. Genuinely outstanding week in-week out. Aerially, kicking, running, distribution, defence. He was brilliant

    However his form the last 2 years hasn’t been at the same level, he’s starting picking up a lot of injuries and he’s 30 this year. Is he still our best 15 when fit? Yes, probably. Although I really liked what I saw from Hansen in November. I hope as much as anyone that Keenan can get back to the level he was at a few years ago, but there’s no guarantee he will do. And we shouldn’t handicap ourselves by not being prepared to explore other options if he doesn’t get back to top form.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,803 ✭✭✭BoardsMember


    There's no "Yes, probably" about it, Keenan is by some margin the best 15 in Ireland.

    My suggestion earlier re him being tried at 13 was based on the potential that he might be our next best 13 after Ringrose, so if we were very short there (i.e. nobody else we had tried had worked out), and we have good cover at 15 (Osborne, Hansen), then it might be no harm to see him play a half game or two at 13.

    I'm not suggesting we don't play Keenan at 15 when he's fit & everyone else is fit, or that we play Keenan at 13 if Osborne has shown himself capable to play at 13 and both Keenan and Osborne are fit.

    If Osborne turns out to be pants at 13 and is fit and trusted at 15, I'd like to see Keenan get a run at 13 if Ringrose is unavailable.

    The alternative is to try Hansen at 13 maybe. The point being, if nobody is emerges as the obvious Ringrose back up then it would be good to try out some other options.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 61 ✭✭shimmieandshake


    Okay, maybe Keenan shouldn't play 13…

    …but I reckon we should give him a few games at 9. He'll be gas.

    Actually, maybe Mack learns to play 9.

    Both of them, for the sake of depth?

    We can figure out 13 later, but it'll probably involve Crowley/TOB. And Stockdale's playing 13 tonight!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,307 ✭✭✭TRC10


    Why would we play Keenan at 13 when he’s never in his professional life played there and there are plenty of good centres at the provinces doing the business regularly?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 6,655 ✭✭✭P.Walnuts




  • Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 36,490 Mod ✭✭✭✭pickarooney


    So are Ramos and Beauden Barrett, they still play other positions when required



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,307 ✭✭✭TRC10


    Keenan has played other positions when required, just not 13.

    He’s 29 and has never played there. It makes literally no sense when there are many Irish centres who could do a good job if given a chance.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 14,626 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    We're out the door with talented young centres, and you want to put our best ever 15 at 13. Make it make sense.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,876 ✭✭✭For Petes Sake


    I don't think anybody actually does want to put him there.

    This started because someone was making an excuse to keep him out of the team for Osborne, despite Osborne having no attribute at 15 better than Keenan.

    One of the cases was Osborne's ability to run lines off 12 from the 15 position, as if line-running wasn't one of Keenan's best qualities.

    Then it became a goal-post manouever about him playing 13 full stop.

    All of this to avoid saying that Keenan walks back into the Ireland team.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,687 ✭✭✭Yeah_Right


    Lads, forget about trying Keenan at 13. The only logical option is Furlong.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,876 ✭✭✭For Petes Sake


    Think Prendergast should be getting a few more games at 10 too, just because like.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 4,044 ✭✭✭50HX


    Its not an excuse to keep him out of the team.

    I just stated we had options.

    As TRC10 posted he has had Injuries & is not the same player of say 22/23 when he was the best 15 in world rugby. We have to see that in blue & green again

    If he gets back to that form then happy days & I'd love to see it.

    You can't ignore we have alternatives at 15 now.

    God knows we gave game time to players for long enoughto play their way back to form namely due to the fact we had no test level alternatives.. e.g Hansen Autumn Int 24.

    If he is the form of what we saw in previous years then we'll & good & we are better for it, its not outlandish to suggest we have an alternative or is it?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,054 ✭✭✭Former Former Former


    There's always this assumption that a player has to win the jersey back. It's very rarely the case, especially when players of the calibre of Keenan are involved. He has nothing to prove.

    Keenan is the first choice full-back until he shows that he has regressed massively. He's just that much better than anyone else, Osborne included. The same very likely applies to Mack Hansen; I don't know if he'll be back for the summer but he won't be losing too much sleep about his Ireland jersey, regardless of the form TOB and Baloucoune have been showing.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 6,655 ✭✭✭P.Walnuts


    Agree with Keenan

    Not so sure about Hansen, RB has absolutely taken his chance and given us a real finishing threat that we normally lack.

    Hansen would be a pretty great 23 also.



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