N40 - Cork South Ring Road upgrade [early planning underway]

hans aus dtschl · 11-03-2026 10:57PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124305424#Comment_124305424

Sustainable mobility, Ireland schtyle

jimbob955 · 12-03-2026 08:56AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124305424#Comment_124305424

Will this be enforced though? The road improvement delivered before people move in.

One of the biggest issues I have is massive developments getting planning with zero amenities or infrastructure associated with these new developments. So we all have to drive everywhere, everyday to access the most basic services and then we wonder why traffic around Cork is so bad.

I live in a newish development and was supposed to get a creche, shop etc 15 years later, nothing is delivered and the creche aged kids have aged out. You coundn't make it up, Drives me mad!

Shedite27 · 12-03-2026 10:34AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124306002#Comment_124306002

I don't think the developers have an obligation to run those businesses tho do they? Just build the units for others to take up. I love the idea of having walkable cities but asking developers to become childcare providers just seems another excuse not to build in Ireland

Chris_5339762 · 12-03-2026 12:32PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124305225#Comment_124305225

Didn't the extension of the N40 slip back towards the tunnel (presumably seperate to this) get bogged down in an utterly ridiculous judicial review?

Aontachtoir · 12-03-2026 08:22PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124306527#Comment_124306527

I didn’t know that, but the part 8 was a few years ago so surely it should be through the courts by now?

jimbob955 · 13-03-2026 08:48AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124306198#Comment_124306198

There has to be an obligation for good planning, sustainable planning that builds actual communities, not American type suburban sprawl where no one knows anyone.

This plan has to come from the developers and has to be enforced by the council.

I'm not saying every development has to have these resources.

But for example if there are 3 new huge adjoining housing developments in carrigaline:

Estate 1 - 500 houses - has to have a crèche

Estate 2 - 500 houses - has a playground

Estate 3 - 500 houses - has a shop/GP

What we have at the moment is over a 10 year period you might get 1,000+ houses rammed in somewhere with zero amenities planned or in some cases planning for a shop or creche or whatever, and nothing gets built, nothing gets enforced. It just makes no sense. And then traffic is nuts in a place like Glanmire or Carrig or wherever cos we all HAVE to drive.

Bad planning, bad enforcement

Shedite27 · 13-03-2026 10:22AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124308559#Comment_124308559

But if they setup a shop, and everyone in the estate says, nah I'm going to use the Lidl down the road instead, do you think the developer has to keep a loss making shop running forever?

Corkladddd!! · 13-03-2026 12:37PM

I'm lucky enough to live in an estate where the next estate has a shop (Broadale) and excluding the boom from the building work ongoing nearby the shop is busy excluding this, honestly it'd a fantastic resource for a litre of milk etc but not a full shop. I think we need to be realistic in this, the shops need to be of a size where rent and rates are not a barrier to business.

I'd propose that it be based on time and distance rather than size exclusively, I think this will encourage greater permeability through estates as developers ensure they can take advantage of local resources (again example I'll use here is Broadale/Mount Oval where there is no connection that means I go to the village for a pint not my "local" in Mount Oval).

If I cannot walk (and I think this should be based on a reasonably fit OAP/mother and pram not a 35 year old who does 10k for fun) to a shop/GP/Dentist/Barber/pub/public transport connection then I think the planning system has failed.

jimbob955 · 13-03-2026 02:14PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124309032#Comment_124309032

You are completely right, great post. I'm not saying every new big development needs a Mount Oval esque center but maybe 1 in 2 has a shop 1, in 3 a creche, 1 in 4 a GP, its not rocket science, its not asking for a lot really!

Its bad planning and bad enforcement

Broadale is such a good example also, a connection to Mount Oval would open up the school and estate more, which would ensure the success of the school, local shops, local pub around the place!!

riddlinrussell · 13-03-2026 03:08PM

Phased planning permission where the facilities need to be built in phase 1 to unlock the next phase of house building.

And 100% some sort of minimum requirement of 'walking distance to x,y,z' where x,y,z are only valid if they have capacity to serve the proposed number of homes, otherwise youll need to build one in phase 1, forcing permeability and walkable estates.

Shedite27 · 13-03-2026 04:55PM

Think we're all agreed it should be built, question is what the developers obligations is after that. Are we asking developers to run childcare and supermarkets?

Pale Red · 13-03-2026 06:30PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124309781#Comment_124309781

The developers would not be best placed to run a Spar/coffee shop/crèche etc. They would have no onus on them beyond providing the buildings. They could let or sell the units.

spacetweek · 15-03-2026 08:36PM

What are you lot blathering about. Developers don't run shops - they don't even build them as part of housing developments. These should not have to include shops, they can be built on the nearest main road which is the place for them. Where I grew up in Lucan, some large estates used to have shops right in the middle but these have all long closed. Because the main road is a better location.

"If I cannot walk (and I think this should be based on a reasonably fit OAP/mother and pram not a 35 year old who does 10k for fun) to a shop/GP/Dentist/Barber/pub/public transport connection then I think the planning system has failed."

Shop and public transport yes, GP and pub maybe, the rest is overkill. A 15 minute walk is only 1 km so we'd need our cities to be rammed with dentists and barbers, many of which would therefore need to be badly located away from the nearest main road.

DylanQuestion · 15-03-2026 10:35PM

There is no main road with buildable plots in Carrigaline, though. Janeville is right up against the R611 and N/M28. Unless developers build these units as part of the residential development (as they should), they will never be built (in this instance, there is nowhere to build them). Expecting developers of residential areas to provide buildings that can house services for those future residents isn’t a controversial take. The developers should be required to build them, even without a pre-let

Mount Oval is the absolute gold standard for the development of residential areas in cities (minus the lack of a bus using the spine road), but I appreciate that isn’t always possible. Broadale is the next best thing, and absolutely something we should be striving for. Janeville is surely even bigger than Mount Oval and yet does it have a single building that isn’t a house? Maybe a creche?

Corkladddd!! · 16-03-2026 08:44AM

I think that's the key thing is that it's about the developers either constructing the building (makes sense to me) or leaving space dedicated for it (it may never be developed if so, as no local shop could afford the outlay to construct). I would see these spaces as being a cost of development, should they then be operated on a lease by a management company or the likes, the lease paying for the general upkeep of the buildings and public areas.

I'm not suggesting they be in the center of a development, in fact I'd say the entrance to the estate makes the most sense and ensures some viability for the business in additional passing traffic. In relation to the 1km, it actually becomes less dense in reality as you could have one every 2-3km to satisfy the 1km distance for most people. In relation to cities being rammed, I think there are at least 4 barbers in the Douglas village in < 1km, I think these spread out and we see other commercial property becoming available for more business.

If we venture to the continent you see these little clusters with even butchers, greengrocers and florists!

jimbob955 · 16-03-2026 09:16AM

Sorry late back to the thread. As exaplained above already I don't expect developers to run a shop. But either lease or sell the building. But they are getting planning based off these proposed amenities. Over the years I have seen countless announcements "248 houses with associated creche", we all know the creche won't get built or might be built 10 years after the estate is built when the majority of the target kids have aged out!

I'm not familiar with Lucan but a place like Carrigaline is similar I presume. Back in the 80s/90s when development really kicked off those new estates were close to the village, to the shops and schools, walkable but as Carrig has sprawled out, the huge new estates are very far away and no longer walkable into carrig.

What I am calling for is maybe 1 in 2 or 1 in 3 of these huge new developments to have something, 1 shop, 1 creche , 1 playground…..

Janeville has an old peoples home……..which is great but makes no sense as there will be 2000+ kids here, they need a crèche and playground and a local school.

So all the good people in Janeville have to drive into Carrig for school each morning, drive into Carrig Sat morning to go to GAA or soccer training, and we wonder why traffic is so bad……..

KrisW1001 · 18-03-2026 11:25AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124315396#Comment_124315396

No offence, but the various developments that styled themselves as “Lucan” constitute one of the greatest planning failures in this country - the shops failed because these estates were developed with zero pedestrian permeability, so you had the ridiculous situation of it being quicker to drive out of the estate to a shop elsewhere than walk to the one in the development. The other issue was isolation of services: One isolated shop or creche in each estate is pretty much guaranteed to fail: you needed clusters of shops/services so that people would go there and use them. But, so much of this area was built on corrupt planning permissions that we can’t really expect best practice when it comes to services. It’s not “main road” that matters so much as there being a location where you can do more than one thing.

One of the better examples I know of is in Waterford: when housing extended out towards Dunmore, a commercial centre was also provided at Ballinakill, with restaurants, a small supermarket, GP, creche, a hotel/leisure centre and other local services - it’s marked in green below. Almost none of this existed before 2000: it was zoned to support the housing that was going to be built around it:

If you look at the mature parts of cities where people want to live, you find that they are indeed “rammed with dentists and barbers”. Within 10 minutes walk of my house, I’ve three supermarkets, butcher, a Chinese restaurant, three pubs, six takeaways, two cafes, three bookies, three chemists, a dentist, a GP, four hairdressers, a gent’s barber, two beauty salons, three convenience stores, a dry cleaner, two garages, three bus routes and two schools, plus about five small shops. That's off the top of my head - I know I’m under-counting. (I used this caculator: Walking Distance Calculator | Pedestrian Radius Map - RadiusMapper.com) This isn’t some radical idea - it’s how well-established settlements work: the best new developments try to provide the same, but it’s not the developers, but the city planners, who have to make sure it is allowed to happen.

jimbob955 · 20-03-2026 02:20PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124321162#Comment_124321162

Some great examples here, Ardkeen area of the city I guess is well planned, massive growth there in Waterford on that side of the city.

But as you said the council provided land to support this growth for a Tesco, pub, restaurant etc etc

I don't see much of this happening in new developments, especially in Cork. Massive developments being rammed in with very little or zero amenities or infrastructure to support all the new builds. So everyone drives, there is no sense of community as people have nowhere to meet up like a playground, or a local shop or a pub (coffee shop nowadays!).

I understand a creche is hard to manage and keep going. But surely a centra or a spar could make a go of it in 1,000 house estate. 15 minute walking city my arse!!!

kub · 01-05-2026 09:21PM

At long last there is some works after beginning At the Bloomfield West bound merge.

The 2 lanes have as such been made one, the lane lines have been removed, with left leaning arrows at the start, ie where the Wesbound and East bound traffic splits and further on then, the arrows are pointing outwards to merge with the N40 West.

I passed along that way earlier, I think this is just the beginning of it, so hopefully this will help.

DylanQuestion · 04-05-2026 09:45AM

The new merge is so much better. Although I think some people just pay zero attention. There are signs everywhere saying new layout, new road markings and bright cones everywhere. Yet I still saw someone nearly crash into the cones on the old outer merge lane

jimbob955 · 05-05-2026 08:04AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124436321#Comment_124436321

Drove it also at the weekend! Got a bit of a surprise! What is the point of this, to manage traffic entering the N40 and allow traffic to flow better towards the 2 lane douglas part?

What other N40 traffic management plans are needed??? The main issue seems to be heading towards Midleton from Wilton, 2 evenings last week it was backed up passed the KRR flyover. Bananas when you think of it

marno21 · 05-05-2026 09:27AM

A few years ago the evening traffic reports on Today FM would read every evening: “In Cork it’s slow on the N40 eastbound from J6 Kinsale Road through to the Dunkettle Interchage”

Now it reads: “In Cork it’s slow on the N40 eastbound from J6 Kinsale Road through to J10 Mahon”.

There’s 2 at capacity lanes heading eastbound from J9 Bloomfield and not enough traffic exiting at J10 Mahon to provide capacity for the additional traffic joining eastbound at J10 Mahon. Having Dunkettle jammed in the past masked this as the jams at Mahon were just mixed in with the Dunkettle jams.

The only direct theoretical solution would be 3 lanes between Mahon and Dunkettle but we all know this isn’t feasible in the real world. It’ll be a mix of solutions to help mitigate it but it’ll be very difficult to eliminate.

I’m not sure if it’s in any way feasible but the lack of a viable cycling connection between Mahon and Dunkettle in light of the railway and greenway infrastructure both present and future is a major gap in the Cork transport network given the short distances involved.

Chris_5339762 · 05-05-2026 10:40AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124436321#Comment_124436321

I'm not convinced its better at all. I know there is more to come later in the project - but they have done two things so far.

Merged the N28N to N40W traffic before it hits the N40. This is good.
Simply halved the length of the N28N to N40W merging slip on the N40. This is terrible.

Even this morning in full daylight there was all manner of people barging into the N40 at the last minute nearly causing accidents. People will not slow down and merge properly they will force their way in.

That will be a disaster come winter when we don't have daylight at rush hour.

KrisW1001 · 05-05-2026 12:26PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124444861#Comment_124444861

Traffic on N40 is tidal around here - Westbound flows are greater in the mornings, Eastbound in the evenings.

The problem at the tunnel approach is J10 itself adding eastbound traffic onto the road. Actually, I think adding a third lane here would make things worse, because what really causes delays is that a lot of that traffic joining needs to get into the right lane before entering the tunnel. That forced sorting creates congestion for about 500 m east of the junction, but once you get closer to the tunnel itself, traffic is usually free-flowing again, as DKI has capacity to to take anything that N40 can send it.

A similar thing happens at J9 (N28 to N40 E), to illustrate that lanes don’t always help: even though there are three lanes, there’s quite a bit of weaving as joining traffic tries to get in lane for the tunnel comes into conflict with traffic moving left to leave for Mahon. When traffic is very heavy, that delay extends up as far as the delay from J10.

Google Maps has a “typical traffic” option on its traffic view, the results of which might surprise people, as it shows only moderate levels of congestion even at the busiest periods (Tuesday AM for Westbound and Thursday PM for Eastbound) - nobody remembers when traffic is “okay”.

As for a cycle link, it would be very expensive, and would need to be at such a height to not interfere with shipping that it would be uncomforatble or downright dangerous to use it. The tunnel could have contained such a path, but N40 was built as a motorway here (even though it opened as an all-purpose road), which would have then prohibited cyclists from using the link.

hans aus dtschl · 06-05-2026 02:32PM

It's a good spot by Marno, I've actually been onto both LA's about this for a while now. I think I even costed it with a marine engineer I know at one point. The city are hoping to bridge the gap using the Eastern Gateway bridge but I personally don't think that's sufficient because of the location.

Instead I'd suggest a pedestrian / Cycle link there is actually reasonably cheap and easy CapEx and engineering effort: a very small ferry and slipways on both sides. OpEx is the issue, but IMO it's surely worthwhile. An international (NL) example of this is as in this Google StreetView image here:

https://maps.app.goo.gl/XYnUXktV2gw5uBGC6

A slipway at the Blackrock Castle easternmost car park and another at Hoffman park, and a short stretch of greenway at the Northern side to tie it in.

It's not politically or technically sexy in Ireland to have highly-OpEx projects like this, but if New York can keep Staten Island ferry going, and if Noord Holland can keep loads of them going up and down the IJ 24/7 then surely we could at least try it. POC could be done using a lightweight floating jetty on both sides, and a "walk/carry bike only" on existing (not purpose-commissioned) harbour cruise boats.

We have other glaring gaps in the cycle network but most have reasonable solutions other than this one.

Pete_Cavan · 06-05-2026 08:00PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124448202#Comment_124448202

Maybe a form of reaction ferry with the rope under the water fixed to the top of the tunnel box might be an option. It may also be possible to integrate mechanical pulleys as well.

hans aus dtschl · 07-05-2026 11:30AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124448884#Comment_124448884

Yes it could even be possible to do something fully electric down the line once initial proof of concept is done. But it seems like an obvious gap in the network. Tempting people out of the car to cross the river is currently a big problem, so the N40 traffic isn't going to be resolved any time soon.

N40 - Cork South Ring Road upgrade [early planning underway]

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