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N40 - Cork South Ring Road upgrade [early planning underway]

124

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,079 ✭✭✭hans aus dtschl


    There's an effort underway to link Frankfield to Bandon Road right now via Eagle Valley. The missing gap is currently from Tramore Valley Park to Kinsale Road really.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 923 ✭✭✭DylanQuestion


    I think going south around Ballybrack Woods is the only viable choice, but as others have pointed out to me, then it isn't a distributor road. It's a shame, as it is such a short distance (less than 200m). The extension to the Ballybrack Woods to Maryborough Ridge will include going under the Carleton car bridge and under the M28, and people don't seem to care about that. I'm not sure why the R609-R851 bridge is so controversial. I could understand wanting it to be well designed, with appropriate ways for wildlife to get through, but outright not wanting it I don't get. The same people are probably giving out about the traffic in Douglas.. The other option is just go all out on widening Church Road (which isn't even that narrow to begin with, it's just the bridge that's the problem*), but then mass-goers will probably give out about the removal of parking then.

    *You can actually see evidence that it was potentially already widened at some point https://maps.app.goo.gl/Je2a9KSrkczdY9iG9



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 202 ✭✭jimbob955


    there is, first announced back in March 2023, ZERO progress since.

    5k funding in 2026. Maybe they might get funding in 2027. Probably another delay, 2 years to build it.

    So at best 2031 or later.

    Everything is so slow, no urgency on anything!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,361 ✭✭✭Chris_5339762


    I think they're keeping quiet on that one due to the yelling over the Chetwynd - Kinsale greenway. Utterly hysterical stuff - from the people that occupied the land off CIE in the first place.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 3,296 ✭✭✭KrisW1001


    Hmm.. adding a carpark at Forge Hill to “encourage the use of the site as an amenity”. That’d be the same Forge Hill that has no pedestrian footpaths on half of it, would it? But yeah, more car parking spaces. Go Cork!



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 628 ✭✭✭Aontachtoir


    Hysterical is the right word, and whipped up deliberately by certain councillors and a small political party trying to make a name for themselves. Such cynical and head-wrecking nonsense. 

    That said, there is no reason for the City Council not to proceed here. The permission came through years ago, there is no campaign against it, and it would be relatively straightforward to build. So get the funding and build it, please.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 202 ✭✭jimbob955


    I followed that case last summer on the Kinsale greenway, absolute hysteria and mis-information for sure. And you are right, supported by certain politicians, typical parish pump politics really.

    I know different councils and funding sources etc. But to me it would make more sense to do the city section first (presumably would be a success) and then work outwards toward rural areas and Kinsale. They just seem to have put the cart before the horse a little, if they focus on the county side first.

    But ya I 100% agree, as was said, the city side, is mostly "offline", already exists, doesn't impact farmers or too many landowners really and more importantly would connect a huge urban young population from Frankfield to Bishopstown (passing growing areas like Lehenaghmore and Ardrostig etc). Just get it built and get it done, but another year has slipped now with no funding from NTA, so we are looking at the 2030s for delivery if we are lucky! Mad really!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 923 ✭✭✭DylanQuestion


    The plan is to make it bus only as part of the Airport Road to City Centre STC in Bus Connects. However, there is zero enforcement of the bus gates on Coburg Street, Patrick Street or Maryborough Hill (the latter being the best observed), so I have no faith the City Council would enforce this bus gate. Especially since the off ramp is AM only. They would need to add barriers to open only for buses, like at the back of Mahon Point

    Screenshot 2026-02-19 at 16.25.02.png

    I don't understand why anyone would use this exit tbh, even if it's closer. It's near impossible to get out. It's so much easier to go down to Mick Barry Road and go onto the link that way instead



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 165 ✭✭Corkladddd!!


    ssshhh don't tell people about Mick Barry Rd, I thought I was the only one…



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 3,296 ✭✭✭KrisW1001


    I assume they’re still going to allow a right-turn at the circled point for the Ambulance Service?

    image.png

    Otherwise, it’s fine. I actually don’t see much point in allowing general traffic in here - block that exit (ambulance service excepted, of course!), and allow vehicle access to the industrial estate only from the upper entrances, so that the whole section can be bus lane (shaded orange below). If you need to drive into that industrial park from the West, then take N27 City Link, turn left along Mick Barry Rd, Left again onto Kinsale Rd, and in at the upper end of that estate:

    image.png

    Yeah, someone will complain that it’s a long way around, but the answer is simple: you’ll be sitting on your arse in a car.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 628 ✭✭✭Aontachtoir


    That’s a depressing comment. I thought bus gates were something new coming in that would actually make a difference. I didn’t make the connection to the Maryborough Hill bus gate which has been routinely ignored since it went in.

    And of course, as you state, no enforcement allowed in case a “hard-pressed motorist” actually faces consequences for breaking the rules.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,177 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    Putting pedestrian crossings across motorway sliproads is dangerous and stupid.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 3,296 ✭✭✭KrisW1001


    N40 is not a motorway, that road is not a sliproad, and there is a pedestrian crossing on the junction already.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,177 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    There should not be pedestrian crossings on any slip road from a dual carriageway. Simple as that. I'm not getting in to a debate. There is no debate to be had. It's dangerous and stupid like I said.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 3,296 ✭✭✭KrisW1001


    Your comments do sometimes make me wonder if you have a driving licence at all.

    The pedestrian crossings are part of a traffic-light controlled set of road junctions. There is no difference between this and crossings on other busy roads closer to, and in, the city. If you are in a car at this place you are not on a dual carriageway, you are not on N40; you are on just another urban road, and that means there are pedestrian crossings and pedestrian phases on the lights.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 77 ✭✭Leatra


    There should be a bus that only does laps of the roundabout all day and can ferry pedestrians safely from one side of the intersection to the other with no need for them to dirty their feet on tarmac.

    I suppose we could just let them cross on a green man instead but that's not half as fun.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 202 ✭✭jimbob955


    https://x.com/OireachtasNews/status/2026421126595793333

    Donnchadh brought this up in the Dail. Great to see, a local TD pushing it and looking for funding.

    I did get correspondence from a city official. And from the reply, I inferred that the preferred route would be more:

    Vernon Mount Bridge - west to Frankfield Road - and link onto the planned viaduct greenway.

    In Lehenaghmore there is some clearance work of the planned viaduct greenway. As part of the roadworks they are putting in a pedestrian bridge outside the old railway bridge.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,079 ✭✭✭hans aus dtschl


    Yeah I've discussed Vernon Mount Bridge to KRR before with them and they were very positive sounding about trying to progress it, but no idea who's working on it or how far through it they are. Nice to hear there's movement in Lehenaghmore, a full East-West corridor would be transformational. No idea how we're going to get a North-South or a Northern city East-West corridor though!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 628 ✭✭✭Aontachtoir


    @hans aus dtschlWhen you say Vernon Mount Bridge to KRR do you mean direct on the south side of the N40 or via the proposed N27 bridge by Black Ash? I fully agree that a direct Douglas-KRR-Viaduct greenway would be transformational. Interested to hear that they are progressing this as I have heard nothing.

    @jimbob955 Padraig Rice has also been good for bringing this link up. Glad to see more voices in support. If only the government would get on board too. An N40-adjacent active travel pathway can only help the N40.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 202 ✭✭jimbob955


    The Lehenaghmore works are all to do with the road improvements there. They have done some clearance works both sides of the railway bridge. Plan on building a new pedestrian bridge and proper access points to the actual greenway from the Pouladuff road.

    There is no actual greenway works as such. But one thing that it has done is open up the railway line for more people to see it. And it looks dreadful, overgrown and fly tipping rubbish everywhere. So maybe this might be a kick for the greenway works to get going in a few years time.

    @Aontachtoir from what i gathered. It was from Vernon Mount west to the Frankfield road, west along the N40. And then joined up to the proposed Viaduct greenway. I could be wrong but they seemed to prefer this option over another new bridge into TVP from the Kinsale road side. Again I could be wrong.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,079 ✭✭✭hans aus dtschl


    No your take is exactly the same as mine here, following the South side of the N40 from Vernon Mount to KRR. I haven't heard about it in over 18 months, so old info, but this was technical people talking about projects they hoped to move on to after Frankfield Road scheme. It wasn't something presented as agreed, funded, starting, etc.

    But I can imagine that's a very straightforward project for them there if they can move on it. It could link on to Ballybrack reasonably easily too, creating the bones of a primary network extending across a lot of the southside. The missing link then would be from West Douglas to Mahon. Which is reasonably do-able still, just nobody's planning anything to my knowledge.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 202 ✭✭jimbob955


    will they ever just get going with it, there seems to be no urgency (and maybe funding!).

    Years slip by, a few councillors/TDs bring it up once in a while and still nothing of note



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,079 ✭✭✭hans aus dtschl


    Funding: they have loads of staff vacancies I think



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 202 ✭✭jimbob955


    I know this is not the correct thread. But I don't know where else to place it

    Lehenaghmore Road Improvement Scheme and some works on the old railway line.

    This is looking east back to Forge Hill/KRR direction. Clearance works and concrete foundation being built in the foreground for the new pedestrian bridge. There will be an off ramp down to the railway line also. But I presume this will be closed until the Viaduct Greenway will actually be built.

    On the other side of the bridge west towards spur hill there is a vegetation clearance and another off ramp going in also.

    My most recent query on the viaduct greenway was, it will start when the road works are all completed, which is Q1 2027. I presume more delays, so the greenway MIGHT start Q1 2029, then be opened Q3 2030. This is a very ambitious timeline though…..which is mad when you think about it!!!

    image.png


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,079 ✭✭✭hans aus dtschl


    Also, Phase 1 of the Viaduct to City Cycle route has had:

    • 2021 €80,000
    • 2022 €220,000
    • 2023 €150,000
    • 2024 €200,000
    • 2025 €150,000
    • 2026 €5,000

    Very frustrating to see €800,000 spent prior to 2026 on this and then effectively 0 in 2026 and a big gap until 2027 before even considering breaking ground, let alone delivery. That's just galling. I presume you were on to Paul Martin so I suggest asking if there's anything you can do to help this along in terms of getting him political support etc.

    In terms of threads, possibly worth bringing to the Greenways thread also. I know it's adjacent to the N40 and affects the N40 but tbf it's not exactly the N40.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 202 ✭✭jimbob955


    thanks Apologies on deflecting from the N40!!

    Does the money above? Does it go to different NTA projects? Or is it ringfenced and built up until when the project actually kicks off?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,800 ✭✭✭CR 7


    That would be all money that has already been spent; surveying, design, consultant fees etc. It would be specific to this project.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,079 ✭✭✭hans aus dtschl


    Yes. More specifically I just quoted what was allocated: I can't guarantee from my source (NTA/TII allocations) amounts actually spent.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 628 ✭✭✭Aontachtoir


    The next stage of development at Jacob’s Island got approved by the council today - several apartment blocks in the undeveloped space immediately to the left once you enter.

    As part of the development there will be a widening of the westbound offramp on the N40 to add a left-only lane (so there will be three lanes at the junction at the top of the ramp). This seems similar to the Part 8 that was previously put through by the Council to extend the ramp but more limited in scale.

    Who knows when it will be built of course.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 923 ✭✭✭DylanQuestion


    One of the conditions of the granting of planning approval

    image.png


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