Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

Applying the circular logic of this forum - he must not be doing it in training, possibly late to meetings? etc etc. And lets face it, he probably wouldn't be at Leinster if it wasn't for his brother leaving.

Complains about negativity.

Throws out the following about Milne…

I doubt anyone in the Irish management cared that he moved.

In what way is that not a pretty negative take?

His carrying isn't as effective but I'd argue that winning 5 turnovers, with three of those at the breakdown, against the best team in the tournament is certainly matching his best form at the ruck. Winning 5 turnovers against any side is incredible. Beirne's problem is it's become so commonplace that people take it for granted. He also topped our tackle count. Conan is a better carrier but he's a No. 8 and Baird is a great loose carrier but nowhere near as effective defensively.

I do think Beirne is rated more abroad than at home. He's been named in the World Rugby team of the year these past two seasons and was also the Lion's player of the tour (albeit against a weak enough Aussie side). He didn't have a great Autumn series but aside from that it's been pretty much business as usual.

If you cannot see the difference between what Former said regarding the negativity on here to the comment he made about Milne then there is no helping you. Not once did he say nobody is allowed to be criticised etc. But calling for a managers head is a little bit different I'm sure anyone would reasonably agree.

I absolutely agree.

Here's another difference tho - once the International window is closed, those posters will disappear again.

But FFF will still be here complaining about negativity and criticism, while also being happy to throw out stuff like - a recent, non-Munster, example - when someone suggested Baloucoune should feature, he was shot down as having a "career of mediocrity".

The point being? It's hypocritical to complain about negativity and criticism while also being OTT with your own negativity and criticism.

"I doubt anyone in the Irish management cared that [Milne] moved" being the latest instalment.

Going to Twickenham with the morale in the dumps I think we need guys like Beirne. If we wanna give it to England like the Scots did or like Italy did to us we need players that give you those big fist pump moments.

Need Lowe at his arrogant best in that regard too.

thanks for the Grand Slam,the six Nations Championship,the once in a lifetime series win in NZ,the series draw in SA,but apart from that what has Andy Farrell ever done for Irish Rugby.

Don't forget all his success as a part of Schmidt's coaching team, so at least partial credit for another Slam.

But apart from all that he's done **** all.

So you think Andy is infallible? You would never question Andy? Do you think he's just been perfect since he took over?

Here's just a few highlights of Andy as a manager:

• Landed Leinster with a HUGE wage bill by making 2nd and 3rd string players into internationals.
• His handling of the 10 situation boggles the mind.
• Tiny squads of old men, who just can't manage to get dropped - no matter how bad they are.
• Got kicked out of England for poor management. http://irishexaminer.com/sport/rugby/arid-30711429.html
• And this is probably his worst flaw - ends every sentence with "etc".
• Plays kick chase and on ball every second game, because …. reasons.
• Surrounds himself with "coaches" who have little to no experience.

I think Andy is a good unit coach, who got promoted beyond his talent. If Andy was able to coach the world beating team of a few years ago, why is he unable to do it now?

For exactly the reason I've spelled out above:

once the International window is closed, those posters will disappear again.

Here's another difference. You won't get me doling out the same, occasionally bombastic / hyperbolic levels of criticism of anyone.

None of that is hypocrisy. The old "can't well all just get along" message while at the same time throwing cheap shots is exactly the hypocrisy he's calling out in FFF. You can't have it both ways.