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Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,687 ✭✭✭Yeah_Right


    Yeah it's the wingers that NZ tend to discard at about 27 or 28. If they don't transition to midfield they're pretty much told to head north and collect their pension.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,291 ✭✭✭TRC10




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 326 ✭✭Rayray98


    I get that, but with what he had shown up to this point he was better than Healy and should have been picked ahead of him.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,468 ✭✭✭✭bilston


    Our wingers are rarely the athletic freaks you get in NZ. Stockdale is about the only one in the last few years (at least) who has size, pace and attacking ability and he made his debut around 21.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,316 ✭✭✭Paul Smeenus


    In fairness, Zac Ward has exactly that, but he spent years playing 7s.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,024 ✭✭✭Former Former Former


    Of the back three in the current 6N squad, Keenan, Osborne, Baloucoune and Stockdale all made their debut aged 24 or younger. If Hansen was fit, he’d be in the same bracket.

    Only Lowe (project player) and TOB (ravaged by injury) were older than 24 making their debuts.

    If anyone is interested in facts like.



  • Subscribers, Paid Member Posts: 45,283 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    Hummm

    With what he had shown in 10 games that made him debut in the six nations ahead of Healy??

    Maybe farrell saw that and, you know, capped him?

    Or differently, capped Paddy mac after 270 minutes, debuting against new Zealand, cos farrell never gives youth a chance??

    Your argument is wet paper.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 326 ✭✭Rayray98


    1. That he could hold up a scrum
    2. Gets through more work around the park

    That would be my main 2 standouts, well firstly it wasn’t Farrell it was Esterby. And no, it’s was just conservatism.

    I get we love to romanticise about these older players but removing all that and being objective, there was precisely 0 benefit to backing Healy over Boyle.


    It’s not wet paper though, Healy was well passed in in 2023 and should have been moved on then. While I’m a big fan of Farrell and his selections, unfortunately, he isn’t immune to the Irish curse of hanging on to players a year too late and unfortunately that’s what happened with Healy & POM, both should have been moved on after the SA tour.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,028 ✭✭✭johnh6767


    Boyle is a young man with plenty of time at the beginning of the journey. Backing young players is great of course but it’s not without risk and backing them when they’re not physically or mentally developed to the test level can be counterproductive



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 326 ✭✭Rayray98


    All completely valid. If it was Healy from 2022-2023 I would probably have stuck with Healy as, especially in that game up in Murrayfield, he showed what he can offer. However since the 2023 RWC and especially in 2025 he dropped off significantly to the point where I feel Boyle had overtaken him, not by a significant amount but enough to get ahead of him in the 23.


    Not just in terms of playing ability but also with an eye to the RWC 3 caps were wasted on a player who was never going to make 2027 which for me is poor planning. I can understand them going to Murray and to some extent POM as while they wouldn’t make 2027, they still have something to offer the side, Healy unfortunately does not except for the fact he can cover hooker in a match day 23.



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  • Subscribers, Paid Member Posts: 45,283 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    "does not" ??

    Healy retired last season.

    Boyle and Paddy mc are perfect examples of farrell trusting youth and playing players WHEN THEY ARE GOOD ENOUGH.

    This argument is mental. Everyone could see that Healy was at the end of his career. However up to the 6 nations last year no loose head was performing well enough to oust Healy. When boyle showed he was good enough, he did oust Healy.

    Healy who only played 30 minutes of the 2025 6 nations AND scored a try in the process.

    Jack boyle played 26 minutes.

    So your argument is that those 30 minutes that Healy got had somehow stunted the career of jack boyle. Absolutely mental argument.

    You say that you think boyle was doing enough in 2025 to take that 17 jersey... Which is exactly what happened.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,979 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    I think the argument would be more the fact that they didn't trust healy for more than a few minutes per game. So they left Porter on for over 70 minutes. Turns out they had a viable option in Boyle who they could have played for the more normal 20 or 25 minutes per game.

    Nobody wants to play Porter for 75 minutes per game. That only happened through perceived lack of options. But it turns out Boyle was a viable option who was blocked by Healy, who they didn't really trust

    That's the argument I would make.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 33,782 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    They wouldn't have though, because Porter still would have been much better doing a 70 min stint than putting on Boyle.

    There is a reason Boyle was seemingly passed out by McCarthy so quickly.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 326 ✭✭Rayray98


    The post was referring to last season.

    As I’ve already pointed out, Boyle was performing better. More like, when Leinster got knocked out of the CC and Ireland had their chances of the 6N ended was Boyle backed over him.


    He scored that try in the last play of the game when Ireland were 22 points down.


    I never said backing Healy “stunted his development”.



  • Subscribers, Paid Member Posts: 45,283 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    Boyle wasnt blocked by Healy.

    Boyle overtook Healy.

    Soon after Paddy mc overtook boyle.

    Did boyle block Paddy mc?

    Post edited by sydthebeat on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,979 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    I doubt it. It's very unusual to plan for a prop to play over 70 mins per game. It's not something coaches do by choice. It made sense for Healy because he was too old to do much around the pitch except set piece. Boyle could move around the pitch and could do the job in the set piece.

    I think it they played Boyle earlier, they would have realised he was able to do the normal sub role and play 20 minutes rather than 5 minutes at the end.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 33,782 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Porter regularly does 70 minutes shifts for Ireland and always has though. These are his average minutes for Ireland

    25/26 : 57 min (though he came off the bench for one, if we ignore that it is 65 min)

    24/25: 66 min

    23/24: 61 min

    22/23: 72 min

    21/22: 65 min

    20/21: 49 min (multiple bench appearances and back when he was at TH with Furlong).

    There was absolutely nothing unusual about his minutes played in last year's 6N.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,024 ✭✭✭Former Former Former


    Boyle literally got nine minutes against Wales. In the URC final, three months later, he got five. Porter stays on because he has a massive engine, not because Healy was old and if Boyle was as good as he’s now being made out to be, he kept it to himself.

    But this is utterly irrelevant. Boyle got two caps in the 6N, it’s simply not credible to say that if he’d had another 15 minutes against France then everything would be different. He’d still have been behind McCarthy in the Autumn. And since he’s out injured anyway, nothing we could have done last year would have made a blind bit of difference for this year.

    There is literally nothing to do except see how Milne, Loughman, Bohan and maybe TOT or Bealham get on and hope for the best

    Post edited by Former Former Former on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,979 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    In last years 6N (i dont know about the rest of the season, or why its relevant to a discussion about the 6N) he played about 70 mins each game. Except the last game where Boyle came on at 65 mins.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 33,782 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Which is what he quite frequently does regardless of who is benching behind him. He played slightly fewer minutes in the 24 6N and slightly more in the 23 6N.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,938 ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    You’d be hard pushed to say that’s optimal tho… and imo, he’s beginning to look like a guy with a lot of miles on the clock.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 360 ✭✭big-al


    he was also a number 8 the whole way through his career until he went into the 7’s programme.


    he scored some fantastic tries for Ballynahinch.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,177 ✭✭✭typhoony


    Murray Kinsella saying there is a fascinating team selection to come, i wonder is it Billy Bohan or maybe Crowley and Prendergast both in the team to start



  • Subscribers, Paid Member Posts: 45,283 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    Whatever it is, we go into the game serious underdogs. All i want to see is a coherent plan



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,708 ✭✭✭ersatz


    disallowed Edinburgh try from the cross filed kick which #3 “overran” and obstructed was a pure gift to Leinster. If anything he was being tackled off the ball by Degan.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,617 ✭✭✭joseywhales


    This competition is funny. If somehow we get this first win we will be hands down the favourites for the tournament. Lose as expected and they have an obituary for the team in the paper. Of course neither is true, it's just one game.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 14,594 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    i do like Crowley at 12, think it suits him better



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,272 ✭✭✭Ardillaun


    Let’s take a simpler line of work, the Olympic 100m. Apparently, in the past ten competitions the average age of champions was 24 and Usain Bolt set his record at 22. Obviously, speed is just one requirement of a winger but it does tend to peak fairly early in adult life.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,708 ✭✭✭ersatz


    wouldn’t be surprised if Farrell went for an unexpected team. Given the injury issues he is in an unusual position of having nothing to lose and everything to gain. He gets to try out some new players/combinations in a match where France are also rebuilding to some extent. Expectations are as low as they’ve been for many years and the only risk is a severe beating. He won’t have a better chance to experiment on a top flight game and he has the possibility of locking in some momentum. Seeing that young Leinster team dig it out today is a good example of what’s possible.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,272 ✭✭✭Ardillaun


    That disallowed try by Tector was exciting. It’s great to see an out-half do that.



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