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United States as a Rogue state

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,210 ✭✭✭Ardillaun


    There would also be smaller spheres of influence, a general dog eat dog chaos unleashed upon the world. Israel would become even more dangerous while Turkey and India would start throwing their weight around too. Back to the good old days and not good news for any small country.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,037 ✭✭✭BP_RS3813


    I'd jump in bed with China before ever attempting to deal with that orange oompa looma out of pure spite for him. It's gods greatest joke that your man in Pennsylvania missed.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,815 ✭✭✭tinytobe


    That I don't see. Or it's more your opinion not mine. Nothing dangerous about Israel from my opinion, but we'd only disagree on that one.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,974 ✭✭✭✭briany


    Seems like Europe, either as a continent or individual countries, will exhaust every other option before actually having to take things in its own hands and actually be a dominant world power.

    Not that this would be easy. European populations generally seem to bristle at the idea of tight integration of European military or even a European army. This general aversion will be played upon by the US and China, who will attempt to intensify it.

    But perhaps its too late, anyway. The three most powerful countries of Europe - the UK, France and Germany all have hard-right political movements banging loudly on the door. If those countries all fall that way, the game is likely up.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,701 ✭✭✭fly_agaric


    Unless you're a Palestinian? Who were they though anyway?

    Regardless of what they may get up to in their own neighbourhood (slaughter and landgrabbing), Israel's current government supports the far right in Europe, and its friends and agenda intersect almost perfectly with those of the "rogue" Trump admin. and Putin IMO, so it is already dangerous to us.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,210 ✭✭✭Ardillaun


    No question about that. Like Putin he thinks real estate makes countries rich.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,210 ✭✭✭Ardillaun


    So many of these tech bros are natural fascists. They despise the rest of humanity.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,210 ✭✭✭Ardillaun


    True but at the moment what choice do countries have? In addition, it’s a far more bitter thing to be harmed by a friend than an adversary.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,815 ✭✭✭tinytobe


    There is no point in discussing, we'd only disagree. I have nothing but respect for Israel and the IDF and disgust for the Irish "love affair" with the Palestinians.

    But let's keep that for another thread. This is about the US under Trump….



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,894 ✭✭✭threeball


    No its not, be they're certainly more practical and haven't used their power militarily so far. Having 25% of your economy tied up in a partner like Europe makes it less likely for them to upset us and the bigger our group the more it would hurt them. We would wield soft power and we'd have to build a military to match it.

    Ireland need to get with the programme too. Start leveraging our natural resources for energy production and export. Build a strong economy and put together a stronger defence force to assist the EU. Maybe look at picking up a Gotland Sub from Sweden to protect the data and power assests in our waters.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,815 ✭✭✭tinytobe


    Ireland is too strongly depending on US investment. This is especially a risk if a crazy man like Trump is president in the US. Any kind of a conflict, like tariffs, a Trump-European conflict over Greenland, or otherwise would be negative for Ireland. Ireland is well to do, to consider other markets and other opportunities, other than anything US-centric.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,216 ✭✭✭wildgreen


    The European countries are probably already taking steps to remove the few military personnel they just sent to have a look around Greenland! There is no difference between US taking Greenland, US taking Venezuela, and Israel taking Palestine. The latter has been let happen and now the others are a logical follow-on. The only question is when Taiwan.

    He goes on to say that Denmark, Norway, Sweden, France, Germany, the UK, the Netherlands, and Finland "have journeyed to Greenland for purposes unknown” are playing a "very dangerous game".

    "Strong measures" must be taken so that this "potentially perilous situation end quickly and without question," Trump adds.

    US President Donald Trump has announced a new set of tariffs for a swathe of countries that export goods to the US, beginning on 1 February.

    Trump says these will remain in place until "such time as a Deal is reached for the Complete and Total purchase of Greenland" by the US.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,216 ✭✭✭wildgreen


    Over 100,000 murdered Palestinians and you love that? Over a million Palestinians having their homes stolen since 1940 and you love that? … so do you love Adolf as well from 85 years ago?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,697 ✭✭✭yagan


    Defense is Europe's number one priority. Riding on the USAs coattails into Iraq caused nothing but grief and disaster and most of the US couldn't find Iraq on a map.

    A century ago Europe was a quarter of the global population but we're now around 8%. The notion that Europe should have global ambitions is simply neo imperialism. The only intervention I can foresee is a stability presence in a post Putin Russia, and that would very much be limited to the Urals; China is already de facto economically in charge of west Russia.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,146 ✭✭✭✭SuperBowserWorld


    Politicians are puppets for the super rich.

    It's really is mind blowing stuff.

    "When the world’s richest man, Elon Musk, helped destroy the lives of the world’s poorest by tearing down USAID, he did so on behalf of his class"

    "In 2024, Oxfam’s figures show, the wealth of the world’s 2,769 billionaires grew by $2tn, or $2,000bn. The total global spending on international aid last year was projected to be, at most, $186bn, less than a tenth of the increment in their wealth."

    "through their consumption, another study shows, the 1% produce as many greenhouse gases as the poorest two-thirds."

    Edit

    Replace kind with mind

    Certainly no kindness

    Post edited by SuperBowserWorld on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,894 ✭✭✭threeball


    Its a crazy situation. You can pick pretty much any industry bar tech and Europe is the best at it. Cars, Trucks, drones, medical, with very little investment our military equipment is top notch, the list goes on and on.

    Yet theres a reluctance to push on a be the power that Europe should be. I've said before here, theres no future outside the EU for any country. They'll be picked off by lunatics like Putin or Trump. Without the umbrella of the EU, no one would be coming to save you. All those right wing head bangers in Europe and right here at home need to get their head around that fact. Its doubtful that have the capacity to do so.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,894 ✭✭✭threeball


    I've been banging that drum for years. We're not a serious country. We produce next to nothing of substance if you take out American multinationals. Thats been a policy pursued by numerous governments. They're not interested in us being anything else.

    Just look at Sweden, they have Saab, Volvo, Scania, IKEA, Atlas Copco, Sandvik, Ericsson, the Danes have loads of international names as well. We have next to nothing. In the top 100 companies in Europe, we have 1 and its a services company.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,815 ✭✭✭tinytobe


    Ireland is also smaller and Ireland only started in the last 20 / 30 years to be on the better side. Portugal is a lot worse off compared to Ireland when it comes to companies.

    Ireland is also an investor in the US, creating jobs in the US as well.

    But in general, I share your ideas. At the front, Ireland claims to be a sovereign country, behind the back of things it's all US American to the core. The country is too dependent on the US no matter what way you look at it. The American mulinationals are only there because of the tax, the same language, the legal predictability of EU law plus the positive attitude of the Irish. But there isn't much home grown Irish.

    This is especially a problem if the US has a president like Trump and if it's about Greenland a looming conflict. Standing by and looking at things whilst the US just grabs Greenland, that's as undemocratic as can be and it's certainly not values or integrity.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,891 ✭✭✭Sudden Valley


    A poster that is against a country like the US attempting to steal land from another country but still supports israel doing the same is definitely not going to be convinced by any sort of logic.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,887 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    The combined 45 nations that make up "Europe", as defined by the membership of the European Political Community, collectively hold about two and one-quarter Trillion dollars in United States sovereign debt. Ireland is actually one of the larger individual holdings of this, at 300 Billion dollars. Larger than every country except GB, Belgium and Luxembourg.

    This European holding is about one-third of all foreign held US sovereign debt. A total of 38 Trillion dollars comprises US national debt, most held by institutional bodies in America and abroad.

    Now, the retained value of this is a very important factor in both the value of the dollar and, more crucially, of the credit rating of the United States incorporated.

    If Europe as a collective, or even just the countries so disrespectfully targeted by this White House action were to dump even a portion of this debt - fire sale it, junk the bonds - lets say 500 Billion dollars worth, it would be enough to completely pull the chocks out from under the US credit line and send all of its markets into a tailspin that would make 1929 look like the proverbial picnic.

    Now its completely true that it would come back to us in economic turmoil and fundamental instability.

    But I think its the only thing to be done now. I think a nuclear option is required.

    F**k this son of a b1tch. Its time to destroy him. And to destroy America, in this guise, for a hundred years.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,716 ✭✭✭skimpydoo


    You have hit the nail on the head. Hit him where it hurts. Trump and his buddies will soon feel the impact. Trump has been allowed to act like a spoilt child and do what he wants. That has to change.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 39,368 ✭✭✭✭BorneTobyWilde


    Why is it okay for Denmark to claim Greenland and treat it like their plaything, but not for US to claim it, and make it prosper



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,894 ✭✭✭threeball


    Can't be done without taking a massive write down. They'd be selling for a fraction of the price, possibly to the US treasury themselves, who will print the money to buy cheap debt. China already did this late last year. Japan exited by not rolling over debt whilst also taking a write down on some of it. Not rolling over when they mature is the way to go.

    For example, in our case we have €300bn tied up in bonds with a couple of percent interest return. Investing €100bn in becoming energy independent with wind, solar and wave energy whilst producing hydrogen with surplus energy would give far greater returns and leave us less exposed to manical yanks.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,891 ✭✭✭Sudden Valley


    Strange that America itself accepted Denmarks sovereignty of Greenland for at least a hundred years but now Trump, and you for some reason, question it. Greenland can decide to become independent or become a member of the Uninter States. Its in their power.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,708 ✭✭✭Fann Linn


    For a start the Greenlanders want sfa to do with the US.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,815 ✭✭✭tinytobe


    Israel isn't doing the same. Who precisely was raping women multiple times and taking hostages and doing the killing?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,891 ✭✭✭Sudden Valley


    USA i think has been influenced by israel seemingly being able to sidestep international law. I would think that Trump is probably thinking The USA is a much more powerful country than Israel so why shouldn't it get what it wants damn the rule of law.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,630 ✭✭✭✭nacho libre


    I read similar thoughts last week by a Canadian Professor. It would certainly give Donnie's enablers pause for thought. You can't reach them through any moral argument, but you can appeal to their sense of greed by showing them it will make their pockets considerably lighter



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,708 ✭✭✭Fann Linn


    Israel has been doing that since their state was formed. Only difference being the Israelis appear to be fond of raping male prisoners.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,630 ✭✭✭✭nacho libre


    According to Israeli human right groups there is systematic abuse, both physical and sexual, of detainees within the Israeli prison system. Some of these people are held without trial for months on end. This doesn't mean all Israelis are rapists, but you were quite happy to describe all Palestinians as rapists. Also the point was you are against America stealing land, but you don't seem to be against Israel doing the same thing in the West Bank



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