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United States as a Rogue state

145791019

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,610 ✭✭✭mulbot


    That's true. The west has this fascination with America as the beacon of morality. (There's been no convictions for anyone in those Epstein files, but as the saying goes "show me your friends, I'll tell you who you are")



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,254 ✭✭✭RoyalCelt


    Then we have the EU increasingly forcing their will on it's member states. Penalising those who don't want to sign up for ideas like mass immigration from the 3rd world against the will of the majority.

    But I'd rate them EU>>>>>>>>>>>>USA>>>>>>>>>>China>>>>>>>>Russia.

    And I'm highlighting I think the gap between each of them is quite large. Personally I don't think too much will change for most nations on the planet. There's always been a few smaller countries getting fucked over by bully super powers as far back as recorded history again.

    Were we brain washed into thinking it'd stopped while China cleansed and stole territory, Russia annexed Crimea and occupied Georgia and while America messed up the middle East and Libya?

    The only major change now is American influence is growing because of Russia's own goal in Ukraine causing them to severely weaken for the foreseeable future.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,610 ✭✭✭mulbot


    I'd also add here American influence is growing as the petro dollar is under threat



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,254 ✭✭✭RoyalCelt


    Yeah I personally won't go calling people pedos until there's proof beyond doubt. Was Stephen Hawking and everyone else who went there a pedo? It's possible but like I said I won't be calling everyone a pedo because they're part of the rich man's club.

    As for your first point American isn't a beacon of mortality and I don't get where that concept came from? Clearly it was propaganda. Was it a MSM construct? How do people in the digital age still fall for such things.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,656 ✭✭✭eightieschewbaccy


    You seem to be avoiding the fact that he's very much so a rapist.... The fact a rapist is declaring his morality is the be all and end all for US foreign policy is terrifying.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,254 ✭✭✭RoyalCelt


    This is a discussion on the US as a rogue State. Of course the usual tangents will appear when it's pointed out they were always a rogue State, and far from the worst of them.

    Out of curiosity are you talking about Jean Carroll? I just googled your claims there and a jury sided with her.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,656 ✭✭✭eightieschewbaccy


    In fairness, I made a pretty detailed post on why it's very much so not business as usual for the US. But you seem to be ignoring that one. It's also relevant to the discussion that a rapist is saying his personal morality defines what he'll do in terms of foreign policy. Threatening to invade a part of the EU is not business as usual. Threatening the very basis of NATO is not business as usual.

    You're minimising the situation at all costs.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,610 ✭✭✭mulbot


    Yea you're probably correct. Just with Trump, he's mentioned enough times in connection to epstein, he had the Porn star shenanigans, there's the somewhat forgotten Prostitutes situations in Russia, he's been named as the rapist of a 13 year old,difficult to to believe it might not be true, but yea I get your point.

    I think where we get the notion of land of morality, is like you've mentioned, media etc, this land of the free etc, land of opportunities, this country who go after the baddies (think of every action movie ever made). It's certainly the opposite of that.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,254 ✭✭✭RoyalCelt


    Greenland isn't part of the EU is it? Nor should it be? In the context of my post even if trump was criminally convicted it doesn't put them anywhere near Russia and China. Putin is the modern Day Hitler and Xi is over seeing genocide/ethnic cleansing and territorial expansion. Maybe they're rapist's too? Not that we've ever see solid proof.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,656 ✭✭✭eightieschewbaccy


    It's a territory of Denmark's. All people in Greenland are citizens of the EU so ya, it's a part of the EU, slightly different rules but territories still confer same rights.

    I've never defended Putin or Xi. Trump has absolutely defended Putin on many an occasion though. Trump is destabilising and seems intent on collapsing NATO.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,254 ✭✭✭RoyalCelt


    I personally don't believe Denmark should have a claim over it. The only positive is it might stop the super powers taking it.

    I personally think NATO is fine.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,656 ✭✭✭eightieschewbaccy


    And that's an entirely separate issue. Trump has threatened them with invasion, they don't want to be a part of the US. An invasion will destabilise NATO.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,701 ✭✭✭fly_agaric


    I am curious about the basis for dismissing their claim. Is it distance? It's like a lot of bits of the Earth, in that it has had different people living on it over time, sometimes fighting each other.

    I know only a rough potted history but there was a Norse settlement on it, which lasted for several hundred years. So Danes aren't entirely strangers to the place, or just interlopers.

    I believe in self determination, but realistically there's a limit there and I think Greenland is not going to be an independent state with its current population, that looks like a bit of a pipe dream right now. If anything, the population and economic power threshold for having your own truly sovereign state is only heading in one direction.

    So people there could have a choice to make in future (…that is if they are allowed to do so of course - Trump admin. certainly makes no bones about contempt for weaker parties, certainly for smaller countries and their non US citizens which are all just game pieces in their world view seemingly).



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,782 ✭✭✭✭Oscar_Madison
    #MEGA MAKE EUROPE GREAT AGAIN


    “As for the rest of your post, it's a rather glum and defeatist attitude”

    I prefer the term realist but that’s just semantics in fairness- but I don’t apologise either - as a collective, we’re all raping the planet - plastics, rare metals, oil etc- consumer goods rule the behaviour of the world as far as I can see- poor countries are just going to suffer more and more and succumb to whatever super power has them over a barrel - China with their smiley helpful road building “grants” that leave 3rd world countries in debt and beholding to whatever whim of China- America internationally is no different but maybe less subtle - and considering recent events domestically, they have a clear ability to fck over their own citizens when it suits them, just like China and Russia - oil, rare minerals, water, land aren’t going to increase in supply as the years progress- we’re seeing the future now, and it fcking stinks



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,898 ✭✭✭threeball


    Greenland would be mental to try to devolve from Denmark. They'd be sitting ducks. If they were independent now, Trump would be up there already.

    They are subsidised to the tune of €500m per annum, are under the NATO umbrella and have complete access to the EU. Independence is a pipe dream. It'd be like an Irish county deciding they were going to go it alone.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,750 ✭✭✭✭Frank Bullitt


    It’s amazing how you hold the same position and Trump but don’t actually say you’re a Trump fan, constantly.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,254 ✭✭✭RoyalCelt


    The Vikings went there and settled before the current Greenlanders moved down. But the Vikings left after a Series of harsh winters made it untenable. The Inuits or whatever they're called moved in and replaced them. It's part of the north American plate too. I feel it would be fairest they would be independent and if any charitable countries want to provide defense so be it. Probably in return for military basis on the artic side. I think America and Denmark already have basis. I will admit though Denmark hasn't treated them too badly in modern times.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,254 ✭✭✭RoyalCelt


    There are aspects of Trump's policies I like. I like his hard-line immigration stance for example but I'd hate his approach to Russia. As for NATO he's not only made them actually spend the 2% but a lot will now go up to 5%. He's made Europe get the finger up which we shouldn't have needed to be bullied into. Europe is a continent of warrior nations and that's what made us so great and advanced. We shouldn't forget our roots and nearly did when Russia was cucking us for years. Switching from European nuclear to Russian gas all while weakening our militaries. Trump was right on that topic too.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,750 ✭✭✭✭Frank Bullitt


    AKA you’re a fan. His hardline immigration stance and the consequences of that, have resulted in a women being killed by ICE as they patrolled the streets…

    As for Europe, sure, but Europe have stood behind Ukraine since the start of the war. Trump has only proven he is in Putins pocket on that.

    Trump wasn’t the first to say Germany switching off the nuclear plants was wrong, that’s been known about for years, so not sure Trump agreeing with a common consensus means.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,782 ✭✭✭✭Oscar_Madison
    #MEGA MAKE EUROPE GREAT AGAIN


    The most pragmatic solution is a greatly expanded US presence there - it’s certainly needed, there’s no doubt about that - working “with” the inhabitants and NATI and Denmark and not against them - but it’s not just militarily that the US wants Greenland- they want earth minerals etc too - that means an ecological disaster for the people living there - I don’t want to see that happen - giving every person 1 million dollars just means massive inflation and a greater instance of alcoholism and domestic abuse and suicide rates which are already very high - the very small community, that is known for its challenges of mental illness - will only get worse



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,782 ✭✭✭✭Oscar_Madison
    #MEGA MAKE EUROPE GREAT AGAIN


    “His hardline immigration stance and the consequences of that, have resulted in a women being killed by ICE as they patrolled the streets…”

    That is true. It cannot be argued against in my view.

    However, ask most American citizens, would they prefer to revert to the past with lines of immigrants jumping the border- or where we are now- I think you’ll find most will say now, not the past- Trump is a huge believer in the end justifies the means - the process of getting there is not pleasant as we’ve seen- but America has seized control of its borders and is transitioning away from accepting that illegal immigrants can stay in their country - when they achieve this objective in the main, no American citizen will want to look back - they may feel shame on how they got there -but that won’t stop them insisting that immigration never gets out of hand again.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,656 ✭✭✭eightieschewbaccy


    And once again, an entirely separate discussion. Trump is threatening them with invasion and you seem to be avoiding criticizing that at all costs...



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 44,375 ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    What on earth are you on about? Trump is undermining NATO and global security and you're talking about Vikings?

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,630 ✭✭✭✭nacho libre


    From my perspective this is fatalistic, not realistic. It's as if we have no agency to change anything. If everyone adopted this attitude I suppose it would be true

    You should do as cluedo suggested as it sounds like you have a severe case of the January blues



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,782 ✭✭✭✭Oscar_Madison
    #MEGA MAKE EUROPE GREAT AGAIN


    I’ve absolutely no interest in taking advice from a random poster but thanks all the same - you’re also getting personal which is against the rules



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,898 ✭✭✭threeball


    Why is it needed. The US deemed the 17 bases they had there unnecessary and closed them. The US could insist that Denmark make arrangements to put additional forces there but they don't. Trump has no interest in security. Hes interested in money, mining and drilling rights.

    If he has truly interested in security, he wouldn't have destroyed the 5 eyes, destroyed NATO and alienated the most important piece of the security puzzle, Canada. Without Canada, NORAD is vulnerable, pretty much useless.

    There is no reasonable argument for increased US troops in Greenland.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,238 ✭✭✭FishOnABike


    Funnily enough Christopher Columbus never set foot on mainland North America!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 456 ✭✭Frostybrew




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,238 ✭✭✭FishOnABike


    Well he is trying to rape those countries of their resources.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 44,375 ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    Probably why Cuba has been safe from him. They've not got much.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



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