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Connacht Team Talk Thread VI - Some like it TOH

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 430 ✭✭Strand1970


    100% wouldn't like to see larmour at Connacht, we don't need him and to be honest it would be a waste of tight resources.



  • Subscribers, Paid Member Posts: 45,424 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    Leinster fans could see in Frawleys first 3 seasons in the club that he wasn't a top class 10. His performances were sporadic, lacked basic skill level and were organisationally poor.

    If anyone posed no threat to sexton, it was Frawley.

    Just be ready to watch Frawley at 10 ending up at the bottom of rucks and throwing right handed passes to players feet.

    He's a decent squad utility player. If you think he's the saviour of connacht at 10 then fine, let's see the results when he does eventually get to play there.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 4,438 ✭✭✭Jump_In_Jack




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,142 ✭✭✭AdrianG08


    Harry Byrne was the man to get before he went to Bristol but he wasn't interested apparently.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 866 ✭✭✭ShineyShiney


    F

    How he rates against Sexton, Ross Byrne, Sam Prendergast etc is entirely irrelevant its how he rates against Ioane and Carty. He will improve our squad.



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  • Subscribers, Paid Member Posts: 45,424 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    Perhaps you completely missed the post that I was actually responding to, where the rating against Ross Byrne was the underlying conspiracy theory argument



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 866 ✭✭✭ShineyShiney


    No Syd, I totally got your point. Just because i quoted you doesn't mean I disagree with you. I am suggesting that regardless of how he may rate in a Leinster squad he is an improvement in ours. No conspiracy, no judgement on any Leinster player, no judgement on how he compares to anyone other than the player he will replace at Connacht. Personally I couldn't give a shxte about Leinster or their players. If he helps us get to 8th then hes damn good enough for me.

    In a Leinster context he is a utility back but in a Connacht context he is a starter at 10. I don't see any disagreement in what I have said to your post..



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 366 ✭✭The Subliminal Verses




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 43,004 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    I said it earlier and I'll say it again, he never got a run of games at 10 for Leinster.

    Maybe getting a run will improve him there but it's also possible he doesn't work out and if that's the case then at least we get a very good utility back.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,475 ✭✭✭FtD v2


    Say it all you want - it doesn’t make it accurate. He played pretty much exclusively at 10 his first three seasons.

    The reason he didn’t get any significant runs at 10 after that is because he didn’t earn it; the team all too often looked absolutely rudderless with him at 10. He has all the physical tools required, but he too frequently either made poor decisions or found himself in positions where he couldn’t even get to make decisions (buried at the bottom of a ruck) while the team lost shape around him.

    The idea that he hasn’t been asked multiple multiple times by Leinster’s coaches over the last 6-8 years to run the team in training, meetings etc doesn’t stand up to credibility.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 43,004 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    He played 19 games for Leinster at out-half over six years. He played decent last year when he got a few starts. He got three starts in a row once, that was last year and he got injured early in the third game.

    As I said he never got a run of games at the position. If he gets a run of games then it might work out well.

    He mightn't do well but it's worth taking the chance because he's a very good utility back. He can cover 10, 12 and 15. There's no losing out by signing him.

    Personally I believe he can be a decent 10 given time at the position. It's very difficult going from playing inside centre to out-half. Your head can't be right, you can easily forget the position you are playing in the heat of the moment.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,293 ✭✭✭Ardillaun


    That’s really interesting. What about props? Anybody who has been to South Africa knows how big the Afrikaners are and the good news for them is that more and more of the African population are playing rugby and adding to their options all over the pitch, including the front row.

    Here’s an example of what other countries can produce. Daniel Faalele, a guard for the Baltimore Ravens of Samoan and Tongan ancestry, played rugby in school in Australia before being scouted and moving to the US. In 2022, at 6 foot 8 inches and 384 pounds which is all of 27 stone 6 pounds or 174 kg, he became the heaviest rostered player in the entire NFL, a league famous for its monsters:

    Faalele is on the right standing beside the large running back, Derrick Henry:

    IMG_0582.jpeg



    He has since slimmed down to 370 pounds. I don’t know if he could ever have made it in rugby and he would probably have had to lose a fair bit of weight to run for 60+ minutes but it’s evidence of the challenge we face on the mass side in the scrum. Suffice to say, we in Ireland have our work cut out for us.

    Post edited by Ardillaun on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,293 ✭✭✭Ardillaun


    Glass half-full…maybe Lancaster could get a bit more out of Frawley at 10 than Leinster did? They’ve both had success in their careers and would be completely focused on that task.

    Post edited by Ardillaun on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,475 ✭✭✭FtD v2


    I think he’s a good signing for Connacht tbc - he’s still a quality player and improves depth in multiple positions. I just think his best position is clearly 12.

    Saying he never got a run of games at 10 implies he’s kind of been hard done by, but, as I said, he broke through as a 10 and played there pretty much exclusively for his first three seasons. Since then, he’s been much more a “break glass in case of emergency” 10 for Leinster.

    The most logical reason for that is because the coaches (like a lot of the fans who’ve seen him play 10) don’t believe he’s good enough there.

    I really hope it works out well for him, and it would be great for Ireland too if he can make it as a 10, but some of the comments on this thread (not necessarily from you) and the Leinster thread on this have been utter nonsense.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 43,004 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    His first season he played a couple of times at ten. His second season he played 12 all season, his third season he played once at out-half.

    I've said this already and you keep saying he was a 10 his first three seasons. He was a centre for his second and third seasons.



  • Subscribers, Paid Member Posts: 45,424 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    No you are not correct here.

    1st season started 10 once, 22 x 4 times

    2nd season started 10 x 4 times, 22 x 7 times

    3rd season started 10 x 3 times, 22 x 9 times, 12 once.

    It was only in his 4th season did he play 12 continuously and exclusively. 8 times with 2 sub appearances.

    That was because we had seen enough of him at 10 to know he wasn't what Leinster needed at 10.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,888 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    I think Frawley will do a fine job at 10 for Connacht.

    There was little complaint coming from Leinster until MOD EDIT Prendergast came along and then the tone changed on Frawley.

    Post edited by Lost Ormond on


  • Subscribers, Paid Member Posts: 45,424 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    Complaint about what?

    Leinster was using Frawley as a utility back player for four seasons before prendergast came along. The 'tone' never changed.

    The only time the narrative around "Frawley at 10" became hyped was after his two drop goals from the bench in summer 24. That wasn't Leinster narrative, that was Ireland narrative.

    Interesting for a guy who never started a game at 10 for Ireland.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,879 ✭✭✭realhorrorshow


    A loose collection of thoughts having looked through URC stats a few times (I'm ignoring volume based stats as we have played a game less than most other teams and I'm too lazy to pro-rate):

    • Our dominant carry, gainline, and tackle evasion percentages are amongst the lowest in the league. Our carriers are hit by 2+ tacklers more than all but three other teams.
    • We have the highest number of touches per error by a considerable margin.
    • Tackle success and dominant tackle percentages are amongst the top teams.
    • Third highest rucks per jackal.
    • Lineout success percentage one of the worst in the league, but one of the most effective defensive lineouts in terms of stealing opposition ball.
    • No maul to speak of.
    • We are playing much much closer to the ruck than in previously seasons.
    • We are kicking and kicking to compete much more than previously.
    • We play 5 or more phases more than any other team bar Glasgow. We end 47.4% of possessions with a kick, more than all bar one other team.
    • Our percentage of rucks <3 seconds is amongst the top performers.
    • Second lowest percentage of tries from first phase and percentage of tries originating from own half.
    • We score a try from 54.5% of set pieces within 10 metres of the tryline.

    My take on the above information vomit, starting with the good:

    • We have quickly managed to implement some of the hallmarks of a good Lancaster team - very low error count, good ruck speed, effective restarts.
    • We are clinical when we get close to the line.
    • We are more pragmatic and kicking much more, whereas Wilkins had us playing possession based rugby that was very much out of date.
    • We are more physical in contact in defence.

    The neutral:

    • We have no real jackal threat, electing to defend multiple phases with more men on their feet.
    • We play much closer to the ruck, having played wider than pretty much any other team in Europe under Wilkins. Interestingly, Ulster have gone in completely the opposite direction, clearly the Mark Sexton effect. I think it works better for them married with Richie Murphy's pragmatism.

    The bad:

    • We are playing quite simple attacking rugby, seeking to carry hard and very direct close to the ruck to generate quick ball before trying anything more expansive. This has worked very well when our forwards have won the physical exchanges, particularly against Benetton, but we probably don't have the power to do so week in, week out.
    • Huge disimprovement in the lineout. Possibly a consequence of forwards focusing more training time on contact skills.
    • While I think it's a positive that we are kicking away possession more, rather than going through phases until getting turned over, I think there's many occasions where we could kick a lot faster. The combination of playing many phases, making few errors, but not winning much gainline, often sees us retreating phase after phase and kicking the ball under pressure.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 43,004 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    How many consecutive games did he play at 10?

    You can't be putting a player in for one or two matches and decide he's not good enough. It takes a bit of time to get used of game day. You can do all the training you want but you need a regular run of matches to see what a player is like.

    He was behind the Irish GOAT and Ross Byrne since he came into the Leinster squad.

    And I wasn't including his first season where he was a very young peripheral figure.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,405 ✭✭✭MarinersBlues


    1000018258.jpg

    Would probably have Gavin at 13 instead of Forde, and possibly Forde at 12 rather than Bundee. Happy enough with Carty starting, he should have come on earlier last week. They have gone for a bigger pack this week too.

    IIs Mullins injured? That is a big game for Ryan to be making a debut, particularly with the quality of Ulsters back 3.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 944 ✭✭✭RonnieL


    I suspect Mullins was dropped - he was particularly poor last weekend



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 148 ✭✭lavrenti


    Indeed. Young Ryan could only be an improvement.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,806 ✭✭✭ElisaAtWar


    Certainly an interesting selection based on prior results. I'm somewhat tongue tied in that so little has been learnt so there is no point in saying anything. That will likely make the other posters on this thread happy. Not sure what we learn here that we don't already know . If we to pick a team that is guaranteed to lose this would be my selection. So why would Lancaster do such a thing. He must be trying to prove a point so we can all move on

    Post edited by ElisaAtWar on


  • Subscribers, Paid Member Posts: 45,424 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    All of those 22 shirt appearances, what position do you think he came on at??

    Look, as connacht fans have already said, just because he wasn't the 10 that Leinster needed doesn't mean he's not the 10 that connacht need.

    Leinster fans know he's not a 10 because he couldn't implement our game plan. We know he's really a 12 due to the skill set we saw in how we played him.

    Maybe it will be different out west.

    I doubt it though.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 43,004 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    22 isn't starting. It's not like he got off the bench a whole lot. Sexton regularly played the 80 minutes.

    And was it the case that they decided he wasn't good enough at 10 or was it a case that they needed him at centre? You had Sexton and Ross Byrne for out-half so it wasn't a big deal to move him.

    The truth is he never got a decent shot at 10. I'm not saying he'll be all that but if he gets 5 or 6 consecutive games we'll know then.

    Post edited by eagle eye on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 43,004 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    Here's wishing a Happy Christmas and great New Year to all.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Happy Christmas misfits.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,806 ✭✭✭ElisaAtWar


    Misfits we are. But that's just because we care. Happy Christmas folks



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,236 ✭✭✭CowboyTed


    They were the heavy rumours at the time coming from Leinster.

    Johnny had huge power when in the height of his playing career. We went to a RWC with him at 37 and didn't give anytime to his back up in case of emergency…

    Personally I thought Ross in Leinster never progressed becasue he was back up… He generally came on to teams that had forward dominance. Carty had to develop his style a lot more, analysis more risk in his play due to his pack retreating at times…



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