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Meanwhile on the Roads...

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,251 ✭✭✭fat bloke


    Therefore, if you want right of way - start to cross!

    I'll buy that for a dollar.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 54,528 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    to confirm, the rule is a 'should' and not a 'must':

    Take extra care at junctions. You should… give way to pedestrians crossing or waiting to cross a road into which or from which you are turning. If they have started to cross they have priority, so give way (see Rule H2)

    https://www.gov.uk/guidance/the-highway-code/using-the-road-159-to-203#rule170



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 16,156 ✭✭✭✭loyatemu


    there was a big hoo-haa over this in the UK, the very idea that a driver should wait for a pedestrian! There were claims it was putting pedestrians at risk because most drivers would be unable to grasp such an outlandish concept (much like the idea that it is physically impossible to drive a car as slow as 30km/h)

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,432 ✭✭✭Large bottle small glass


    The Gardai use Cellebrite for some criminal investigations; I'm not sure if that extends to this type of case but without it or similar I'm not sure how detailed phone examination is.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,826 ✭✭✭Paddigol


    Just on the first part of your post, I couldn't agree more and have tried to say as much countless times on this thread.

    The reality as I see it (i.e. anecdotal evidence only) is this;

    1. Pretty much every adult in the country either drives every day or has a driving licence but for various reasons doesn't drive regularly.
    2. Pretty much everyone in the country now sees car ownership as a basic right and minimum indicator of being a successful/ functioning adult.
    3. Pretty much every person tasked with drafting legislation, chairing road safety committees, passing legislation, prosecuting offences against the legislation and adjudicating on prosecutions is a driver.
    4. Pretty much every driver in this country regularly either speeds, drink drives, drug drives, uses their phone while driving or breaks red lights.
    5. Therefore pretty much all the relevant stakeholders, when considering proposals or requests to punish bad driving or make it more difficult to get away/ commit bad driving, see it through the lens of "but jesus, shur I do that".
    6. Therefore there's lots of talk, reports, thoughts and prayers - because everybody must openly admit the scourge of all the offences named above - but nothing actually happens.


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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 54,528 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    And that's why judges don't come down hard on 'good' citizen drivers who haven't set out with a wilful intent. It's a 'there but for the grace of God go i' response.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,577 ✭✭✭MojoMaker


    Nolan in particular.

    Must be a sh1te driver so, and knows it.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 44,473 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle




  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,358 Mod ✭✭✭✭CramCycle


    You are talking about a known racist and sympathiser with underage sexual abusers, who actually goes against the law in his judgements on numerous occasions (presuming it is the same Nolan). If it is the same guy, it is proof that we really don't care anymore about anything. 100years ago, for going so far against the acceptable social norms, a person would have been beaten to death. Today Nolan gets to sit in a judges seat without reproach.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 44,473 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    Conor Faughnan talks BS about our roads becoming very dangerous based on a few complaints he has heard...

    https://www.newstalk.com/news/slow-drivers-2213990

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,577 ✭✭✭MojoMaker


    Not sure why they felt the need to drop in a photo of traffic on a British motorway to make their domestic point.

    Lazy.



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 16,145 Mod ✭✭✭✭smacl


    Pretty much every adult in the country either drives every day or has a driving licence but for various reasons doesn't drive regularly.

    Pretty much everyone in the country now sees car ownership as a basic right and minimum indicator of being a successful/ functioning adult.

    We each see the world through a different lens. By your definitions, I'm clearly not a succesful functioning adult, having no cars, no driving license, though do own and run a business, have been an employer for three decades, own a couple of properties that are fully paid for, and of course own two bikes :) Also anecdotal, but I know very many households with two or more adults (grown up kids) which would have a single car, not one per adult. I know numerous younger adults of my daughters' generation (mid 20s) that are more interested in getting their own place and see car ownership as a blocker to this. e.g. neither of my daughters (22 and 25) has a driving license, both are moved out (one now in London to be fair).

    Less anecdotal, as of 2025 Ireland has 466 passenger cars per 1000 people. Given the demographics of the country, that is a lot less than one vehicle per person without looking at the number of commercially owned vehicles and individuals owning multiple cars. As for driving licenses, if every adult had one, why the backlog for driving test applications given you need to be an adult to apply?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 764 ✭✭✭Timfy


    I can't see age ranges listed on the Eurostat site for the term "people" - does this include the entire population including under 17s and over 75s ? If so I would imagine the number of cars per 1000 people would grow considerably if only the people in the driving age range were counted.

    No trees were harmed in the posting of this message, however a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 16,145 Mod ✭✭✭✭smacl


    That's why I also looked at population demographics in Wikipedia, see below

    image.png

    If we allow an even distribution in the groups, we'd allow 70% of the 15-24 being adult (8.43% of population) and say 50% of the over 65s being less than 75 (6.6% of the population). This leaves us with 68.5% of the population being adult between 17 and 75, as opposed to 466 passenger cars per thousand or 46% of the population before looking at individuals owning multiple cars. Given a population of 5.38 million and a difference of 21.5%, that's 1.15 million adults in this country who are apparently non-functional or unsuccessful by @Paddigol's criteria. You can imagine how those of us that neither drive nor have any interest in cars might take the hump reading such an aassertion.

    Edit: FWIW, last CSO poll shows 81.6% of adults over 18 with driving licenses which tally's with the above, which is a far cry from 'Pretty much every adult'.

    Post edited by smacl at


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,358 Mod ✭✭✭✭CramCycle


    I don't think @Paddigol was actually saying that, he was saying that several people have that view. May not have happened to you but I have encountered it loads of times cycling to work. Years ago people used to shout out the window to get a car, people would wonder have you a DD disqualification or were you in financial difficulty.

    Just because you or I know better, it doesn't mean that @Paddigol is wrong, some people do still believe this. he is not saying it is true, he is saying some people think this.

    We are still quite a car centric group in Ireland and outside of cities, I imagine it is rare for families not to have a car, particularly those in the bracket of 18 to 65.



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 16,145 Mod ✭✭✭✭smacl


    There's a massive gap between several people and pretty much every adult though. The issue I have, admittedly pedantic, is Paddigol's hasty generalization. Had they said many adults or even most adults they could well have a point, albeit speculative. Unevidenced assumptions about the vast majority of the population are a nonsense. Assumptions that infer beliefs held by the vast majority of the population, as in the second point regarding successful/ functioning adult, doubly so.

    The reality as I see it (i.e. anecdotal evidence only) is this;

    Pretty much every adult in the country either drives every day or has a driving licence but for various reasons doesn't drive regularly. (Demonstrably false, 81% of the adult population hold a driving license, either full or provisional)

    Pretty much everyone in the country now sees car ownership as a basic right and minimum indicator of being a successful/ functioning adult. (Unprovable, we have no evidence to support that this belief is held by pretty much everyone, or even a sizeable majority)



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,358 Mod ✭✭✭✭CramCycle


    And pedantry might be part of the issue, I didn't read it as everyone, I read it as a majority but he did say almost everyone. I am not disagreeing with you but he is also not completely wrong (if you take it less literally) in that a lot of people, particularly outside cities would have in the past, had that view. They may not hold it intentionally or with malice but as I said, many whom I have met in rural areas. When I met my partner, she had never met someone in her wider social group who didn't have a car. Nearly all of them were within walking distance of work or public transport, but it was so out of the ordinary it gave her pause. I grew up in rural Longford, not one person in my age category, even those who left did not have a car or access to one. I sold mine after my first week in Dublin but I would say I was in the minority. That is 1 person in an annual group of 350 who graduated out of my school. Now not all would have had their own car, they may have shared with family but all routinely drove, many on learner permits, many I now suspect illegally

    I do think that mindset is changing but there were many people who, much like gun culture in the US where they can't fathom how we don't have guns, it was perplexing when confronted with someone without that need or mentality.

    A guy I worked with 20 years ago didn't have a drivers license and this came up at lunch and two co workers could be seen to be visibly confused that he didn't.

    Our courts certainly seem to treat the privilege to drive as a right, looking at how poor at driving you must be to get your license suspended. in many cases, people just didn't hand over their license and continued to drive. Around my part of the country, every 3rd house has a second yellow reg car which I can't prove but would be seriously doubtful has tax, insurance or an MOT.

    People get incensed when caught speeding, talk of shooting fish in a barrel, as if it wasn't their fault.



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 16,145 Mod ✭✭✭✭smacl


    While it's a fair point, it is also worth noting that as of 2023 the majority of the population of this country (~64%) live in cities and this is an upward trend, so extrapolation from an older more rural experience doesn't really work. No doubt at all that a car-centric attitude is still prevalent, and is likely still a majority attitude, but it is most certainly not exclusive. If you look at natives of bigger cities like London or New York, rates of car ownership are signficantly lower. Given we're seeing an increased number of higher density dwellings here, I'd expect that to negatively impact car ownership similarly, where the total cost of ownership exceeds the vlaue of the utility. Even now, we see a lot of Go cars and other short term rentals which were not a thing twenty years ago. The statement that "pretty much everyone in the country now sees car ownership as a basic right and minimum indicator of being a successful/ functioning adult" doesn't to stand up to even cursory scrutiny in my opinion. That certain members of the judiciary seem to treat it as being the case doesn't make it so.



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