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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,334 ✭✭✭Sudden Valley


    As we are not in NATO currently the danish would not share their blood to defend us, and we the same for them. So neither party is being hypocritical. The Danish have all to gain by being a member of NATO while for us the membership benefits would be limited.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 527 ✭✭✭Grassy Knoll


    You are correct as to the automatic mutual support element that arises under NATO, however let me put it this way, is it hypocritical that we continue to implicitly expect the UK, France or other countries we have good relations with (who also happen to be in NATO) to jump militarily to our aid were we hypothetically threatened, while were the shoe on the other foot, let us be honest the best we would offer is platitudes and moral support? Admittedly any military support we could offer would be limited, but even any token military support by way of solidarity to friends would not be made. IMHO it is hypocritical.

    Also is it hypocritical that we have indirectly benefitted from the relative peace and stability afforded Europe through NATO without any meaningful input or risk to us. IMHO it is. It could be argued we got away with it before for a number of reasons. However it is clear there is a reevaluation of security and the threat profile facing our proximate neighbourhood. Our neighbours are making significant choices in terms of what they must trade off against increasing their defence spending to counter threats that are diametrically opposite to our economic and perceived moral interests. Meanwhile we are cutting the VAT so people can eat out .. The world is fully of hypocrisy, but IMHO the days we can continue to indulge in this cost or consequence free, in this particular policy realm at least, are coming to an end.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 324 ✭✭Aurelian


    That VAT cut should have gone into defence. It's meaningless expenditure as it is.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,334 ✭✭✭Sudden Valley


    The government acts on the will of the people and i do not think the public sentiment has changed the way you are suggesting. The army and navy is struggling to recruit, like in a lot of Western countries, as young people are not interesting in fighting for their own country, let alone for others.

    I think we should invest in our navy and airforce but I do not believe unfortunately that it is a vote winner for any party, despite the threat of Russia.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,734 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    You wanted to give a VAT break to global defence conglomerates?

    While they are swimming in an €800 Billion bonanza?

    Even if you mean the cost of the VAT cut at €680 million should have gone into defence expenditure, thats also nonsensical. The country isn't short of money. Defence isn't short of money. Its short of capacity.

    Without the capacity to absorb a budget and manage large investment in capability improvements, you might as well throw the cash at a blank wall.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 527 ✭✭✭Grassy Knoll


    I agree with most of what you have written, except to point out I haven’t suggested public opinion is aligned with my views, there is IMHO a large disconnect from what passes sometimes for public / opinion debate in Ireland and the emerging reality elsewhere.

    To be fair I do believe some of our political folks get it as they are exposed to this at international/ EU fora, but lack in the leadership stakes to follow through on it. The outworking of this collective immaturity will likely see the election of a pacifist next week who sees such matters through the lens of a student union president….



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