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DART+ (DART Expansion)

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 116 ✭✭citizen6


    If they go high density with housing on that site, would it be worth putting in a new Dart station half way between Clontarf Road and Killester?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,193 ✭✭✭✭Zebra3


    Or closing Killester and having a new one closer to the city.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 116 ✭✭citizen6


    Yeah ideally Killester station would be at the north east corner of the golf course, off Collins Ave. Not sure that moving it is a priority though.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 478 ✭✭PlatformNine


    Clontarf Rd and Killester Stations are about 1.7km apart (from end of platforms), which is probably far enough that it would be fine to put another station inbetween them. Especially considering it is only the second station from Connolly and that if Clontarf Golf Club was redeveloped (as it should be!) it could house thousands.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,387 ✭✭✭Citizen  Six


    Better off just moving Killester a bit more south, and locate the station where the golf course is.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,387 ✭✭✭Citizen  Six


    Removing current Killester station makes it a lot easier for any quad tracking plans.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 478 ✭✭PlatformNine


    Ehhhh, Killester quad tracking may not be easy but neither will the other stations, and if anything I think might be one of the easier stations to quad track as there are plenty of large back gardens to use. Which is also why I believe it is important to keep it roughly where it is, and then open a new station for a redeveloped Clontarf Golf Club, as the spacing would be pretty even for the first few stations.

    tbh, I think if the location of Killester is a problem we might as well give up any hope of quadtracking. Harmonstown and Raheny would be just as difficult to quadtrack, and Killbarrack (which is likely the hardest to upgrade) would just have to be closed.

    That said I would support shifting the station and platforms about 50-75 metres south to Collins Ave as someone else said. That could add a little extra to quadtrack (although I am not sure if it is practically any different), but more importantly it would be an easy connection to the bus stop which serves the N4 and 104/8.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,193 ✭✭✭✭Zebra3


    I’d say there is zero chance of Kilbarrack closing.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,387 ✭✭✭Citizen  Six


    Moving the station removes the need to take a lot of back gardens along that section.

    You don't need to be so defeatist. Not every problem carries equal weight, and some solutions are easier than others.



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 23,697 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    Actually I just realised “Killester DART station” car park is to the South of Collins Avenue, a good 500meters and across a busy road from the entrance to the actual DART station! Absolutely mad stuff.

    I’d vote for moving it to south of Collins Avenue, next to the car park. Not only next to the car park and big new development, but also an entrance directly onto the very important N4 stops and the H stops around the corner. Much better location then where it currently is.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 827 ✭✭✭loco_scolo


    I also never realized there is a car park there. This makes it even more ridiculous that there isn't a southern entrance to the platforms.

    The end of the current platforms are only 70m from the overbridge. Versus >400m to the actual entrance. No need to move the entire station, at least until 4North, if even then.

    1000024458.jpg


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,193 ✭✭✭✭Zebra3


    I think it’s safe to say the current location for Killester station isn’t good enough in this day and age.

    It should definitely be on a main road connecting with other public transport and not hidden in the middle of housing estate.

    The cost of building a new one would be money well spent and if allows for more four tracking, even better.



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 23,697 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    I’d fully support either solutions, though I expect it might just be easier to move it South for quad tracking.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 223 ✭✭OisinCooke


    It is quite useful to know that CIE already own 2 acres of the gold club site, I wonder which part of the site it is. If it’s the track-side of the site that would be a great advent for DART Underground, given the site would be probably the best place for the northern tie-in.

    Still intriguing to know that finally there’s a potential plan to relocate the golf course. How likely is this to actually happen is the only thing I’m wondering…?



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 23,697 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    Ah, it turns out Clontarf Station was originally in this area, I think half way along the golf club if I’m to guess! It closed in 1956 and they moved to the new Clontarf Road Station!

    I didn’t know that!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,513 ✭✭✭bikeman1


    Clontarf station was a basic halt with two simple platforms. It was located at the bridge over the Howth Road. The old station building is still there.

    https://maps.app.goo.gl/CumyBo6ABS7bf8G4A?g_st=ipc



  • Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 11,051 Mod ✭✭✭✭CatInABox


    The old station house is still there, with the steps at the bridge up to the platform still there, being used by IR staff as access.



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 23,697 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    Thanks to you both, I was just coming back to correct myself after looking it up, but you are both too fast :) Further south than I thought. I’ve passed there hundreds of times but never noticed! Very interesting bit of history.

    Good view of the steps up to it on Google Maps:

    https://maps.app.goo.gl/4hAUzzN46Fpz4YrQA And the station house if you swing it to the right.

    Some old pictures of it here:

    http://eiretrains.com/Photo_Gallery/Railway%20Stations%20C/Clontarf/IrishRailwayStations.html#Clontarf_20090622_100_CC_JA.jpg

    Just south of Collins Avenue is probably a better spot once quad tracking happens.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,193 ✭✭✭✭Zebra3


    Also very curious about what two acres they own, but it probably isn’t hugely important as it can be used in a land swap.



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 23,697 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    I looked up the DCC zoning report and while it confirms the CIE ownership, it doesn't show where. I'd guess it is along the rail line.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,458 ✭✭✭spillit67


    I’d like to removal of the DART car parking to the east of Clontarf Road as part of any development here. In it’s place put in a smaller land consuming multi-storey P&R as part of any Clontarf Golf Club development.

    Improving density around that station should surely be a goal. It’s great that it’s surrounded by a park, a health club and sporting facilities but it is sorely lacking residential. There must be decent scope here to even build out Clontarf Road station as it is into a mixed use site.

    In terms of the Clontarf GC lands and 4 North. Irrespective of a wider project going ahead here, how useful would passing loops be for this stretch?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,387 ✭✭✭Citizen  Six


    Nah mate, can't build there. There's a sewer pipe. That's why DCC insisted in leasing the area to the local gym for a car park, rather than look at building housing there.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,458 ✭✭✭spillit67




  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 5,516 Mod ✭✭✭✭spacetweek


    The latter problem can be solved with Dart+ tunnel. This will provide the necessary grade separation.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 5,516 Mod ✭✭✭✭spacetweek


    I just had a read of the Wikipedia page on Killester station. Interesting history. It opened in 1845 on Collins Ave but only lasted two years. It then reopened in 1923 at the current site when the area must have still had very little in it. But as the 20th century progressed it ended up at the centre of a huge amount of development. When the Dart was created, I guess they just grandfathered it in even though they surely must’ve known it was in a poor location.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 5,516 Mod ✭✭✭✭spacetweek


    I've moved all the posts about FourNorth into the Infrastructure forum thead "Double Track" but which is now renamed FourNorth. I could not merge them into the "Project FourNorth" thread in the Commuting & Transport forum as it seems with the new Boards you can't merge threads in different forums.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,113 ✭✭✭✭murphaph


    When could we reasonably expect DART+ West to go live?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 74,221 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Metrolink construction is so incredibly disruptive to it that it will take many many years



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,387 ✭✭✭Citizen  Six




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,269 ✭✭✭✭cgcsb


    The enabling works packs are out to tender now. All the main works packages will be out to tender by year end with contractors likely to be appointed in 2026. Some major works will then start in 2027 like the renovation of Connolly and construction of Spencer Dock. Full route wide construction will likely be underway in 2028. Completion will be 2031 to 2032. Also DART+ SW will be delivered at the same time as both projects will be integrated and potentially DART+ North also, resources permitted.

    The problem with all of that is that metrolink have a railway order to build glasnevin station which will be hugely disruptive to DART+ West construction programme.

    There are of course further issues on a macro scale. It seems that DART+West, DART+ Southwest, DART+ Coastal North, Metrolink, Luas Finglas, multiple bus connects corridors and multiple active travel schemes are programmed to be under construction simultaneously. The strain on the state's finances and the resources of the construction industry will be really tested over the next decade and one or more of these projects could easily be postponed and understandably so, Ireland and other similarly sized countries have never undertaken such a mammoth amount of relative mega projects in such a short space of time plus there are also transport schemes in regional cities and on intercity rail to consider. If it can be done there's no doubt that Dublin, especially the north side of Dublin, will be utterly transformed in a decade. We will be living in a very different city in 10 years time, if all this can be delivered.



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