Manchester United Thread 25/26 - Teamtalk/Transfers/Gossip Mod Note in OP 26.09.24

It was never logical.

If he leaves it will be because he was sacked.

Not because another offer actively took him away.

It's not only astonishing, it's become normal. And it's highly indicative of a poor setup, poor coaching and tactical approach.

For all the talk of a much improved XG than under Ten Hag, we rarely seem to create too many clear cut chances, barely ever a 1v1, and virtually none for the striker (whoever it is). Shots from all angles may look like good stats, but they cover up a lot of poor choice shots or half chances, and they don't amount to the important one, putting the ball in the net, and we don't create enough clear ones for that to happen. "Lump it up to Harry" is arguably still our most effective tactic to get a goal, that says a lot.

A short bad run of form against the grain of much better form, you can understand the lack of scoring. An injury crisis where you throw young lads into the pit, you can understand the lack of scoring. A few park-the-bus performances to get a few needed results to get out of a funk, you can understand the lack of scoring.

Ten months of the same thing, bar the odd improved performance against the bigger sides? That's not a blip, that's systemic. We don't score because of the system we play, the tactics, they don't help us create the type of chances that usually end up in goals.

And then there's the other end. Yes individual errors have been a nightmare at times, you can't blame Amorim for that.

But you can blame him for the poor set-up at defending corners, the openness of the midfield, the lack of playing through the lines leaving players isolated to be turned over. One of the most obvious ways we concede goals or chances is the pull back, lads rushing towards goal not keeping an eye on the lad hanging back, happens virtually every game, has it been addressed at all by the defensive coaching? A well organized press helps alleviate the pressure on the midfield and defence, where's ours?

Our ball retention, it's like the squad are strangers plucked up from bus-stops and asked to play together. Where's the coaching to improve this?

Amorim can't be blamed for individual errors (Onana the most obvious example), but there's little doubt now the coaching (as well as the tactics) at either end of the field are miles off what's required for a top half team in terms of even the simple basics of the game. Individual errors are on the players, but bad coaching and a bad tactical set-up increases the likelihood of them happening, and right now that's what it looks like we have.

And not for nothing, you'd wonder how committed the players are to his vision. None of us know what's going on on the inside. Amorim may be a genius and the players that crap. But an awful lot of these players are new to the club, less than two years in the club, are international footballers, have proven to be quality or at least have been decent players elsewhere, and clearly so otherwise we would not have gone near them. For the most part, they're not part of the culture of the Pogba, Lingard, Rashford carry on either.

You can fool people on the outside for a long time, but you won't fool the people you work with day in day out. If Amorim is a poor coach, the players will find that out quicker than anyone. And a poor coach isn't going to inspire confidence or belief in his tactics or his team, especially if the tactics and coaching are confusing, or worse than what they've worked with before.

Yes, players are paid handsomely to be professional regardless, but that lack of confidence saps away at a side, and that plays out on the field. In all honesty, United rarely look like a side brimming with belief and confidence in what they're doing on the field. Fans seem to have lost all faith that Amorim can change it around, so you'd have to question do the players have any faith in him at this stage seeing as they deal with him on the day to day.

And on the issue of confidence, he's often bullish about not going anywhere and not changing his system, but how many times has he said publicly he's willing to walk away if the club wants him to after a defeat? 3/4 times since he came to the club? Some belief in the project there alright. A great inspiration to offer to walk when times are bad, just what you need when you're going through a tough patch. Or maybe he's just not tough enough mentally for Manchester United, it's just too big a club for him to get a handle on.

Amorim isn't the only problem at United, but right now he's very much the obvious serious problem. Even results aside, we play a bit further forward than we did under Ten Hags so it looks better being on the front foot more, but has it been that much better? Maybe not 7-0 against Liverpool bad, but still 3-0 to City bad. Are we actually playing better when under Amorim we lose half our league games, win 1-in-4, and have a large minus goal difference? And what about individually, has Amorim's coaching improved a single player at the club? Amad maybe, but he's hardly set the world alight in the last while either, injuries obviously haven't helped him, but when fit he hasn't been great. I can't think of one player Amorim and his staff have improved in 10 months in charge.

Personally, I think at an ambitious and serious club based on last years form and the disaster of a Europa League final, he'd have been sacked in May, in fact I'm certain of it, and more than a few clubs wouldn't have given him that long based on league form. He's been given every form of backing possible in the face of utter crap results, and he's still getting terrible results, hasn't improved a player, and seems all over the place tactically and in terms of coaching.

We all wanted Amorim to do well, but at this stage there's more red flags about him than there is in China. There's no part of the setup that screams it's going to be better, and almost all have gotten worse. You can't keep chopping and changing managers, but at the same time, you can't stick with an utter disaster because of it, and Amorim is proving to be an unmitigated disaster.

We're only heading one way with Amorim in charge. And that's the Championship. Especially if OG and Pen remain our top goal scorers due to his tactics and coaching.

the compensation to Sporting is reported separately

It was because of the length remaining on ETHs contract presumably

It's far worse than that.
There has been over a billion (must be closing in on 2B now) "lost" on interest for the privilege of having that debt and them as owners.

What they have done is nothing short of criminal

Horrible but they could probably pay most of that off in 2 transfer windows without players. Team would temporarily suffer but nothing to worry about really.

Wasnt abramovic remopved from Chelsea can the prem not do similar with Glazers as they are ruining one of the greatest footballing institutions in the world

I find it somewhat surprising that you seem to be surprised by this. ETH got his contract off the Glazers, he was never going to take a pay cut to stay in his job, that's net sensible.

And Amorim only got a 2.5 year (season?) deal, which is a very prudent move imo, making it easier and less costly to remove him if they need to, yes. In effect, Amorim got 2 seasons to show what he's about. The time last season was basically written off by the club imo (after ETH left) in an effort to see what RA would beed, how to fix the squad.

Basically, what I think I'm saying is that I don't believe the results or performances up to this summer will factor into any decision to sack or retain Amorim.

That’s not what I’m saying at all. Nobody’s arguing you stick with any manager no matter what. The point is the cycle itself… 7 managers in 12 years… is the problem.

You don’t build anything with constant resets. Every new hire is “the wrong fit” the second results dip, and here we go again. That’s why we’re stuck.

Bad ownership and chopping managers every 18 months aren’t two separate issues, they feed each other. Until we break that cycle, no manager has a chance to be the “right” fit.

I don't actually think INEOS have put as much stock in Amorim as is thought. I believe they bought players that could work under various managers and haven't given Amorim everything he wanted.

They have most likely lost confidence in him and believe he's not going to ultimately bring the success they demand. I suspect they are at this point because they're not stupid. Just listen to Ratcliffe long form interviews before he bought Utd, there's no way he thinks this is going to work out.

But that's the easy part. We can all sit on an armchair and diagnose that. The hard part is what do you do in response and when do you do it.

Sacking Amorim without a solid plan would be idiotic in the extreme. I would prefer to muddle on and end up with Luis Enrique in the Summer rather than take a massive gamble on someone like Xavi now.

Ferguson is lucky social media wasn't around when he first took over united, he woulda been out the door long before he was given his 4 years till his first trophy.

Big Ron was a big media personality before him so amazing Fergie was given the time.

Not comparing at all to anything now but he would of been run out the door quickly.

Tough watching champions league when we aren't involved..you'd really miss big European nights. Feel sorry for younger fans my poor nephew is now 12 and hasn't seen us win a league title in his lifetime....but still stick with supporting them despite the shiteshow of the last few years

Completely disagree, there’s more big games between top teams with the new format. Who cares if you’re not playing them home and away.