Manchester United Thread 25/26 - Teamtalk/Transfers/Gossip Mod Note in OP 26.09.24

pjohnson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123818825#Comment_123818825

Regardless of who it is a 2 or 3 man midfield is a dramatic upgrade on our one man midfield.

and tbf to him Casemiro has been great the end of last year and start of this one. He looks incredibly lean and sharp.

el Fenomeno

And so it begins. "Some players losing faith"...

I usually get mad at the players when the anti-manager leaks start coming, but in this case I'm just not bothered because I'm fully on board with them.

https://twitter.com/ChrisWheelerDM/status/1967621296461934633

Seattle

I thought Amorim hinted in the press conference after the game that he could change by the way. He said he won't change anything until 'he decides'. I thought it was an interesting turn of phrase. I think he should do it now rather than waiting though. Going to a back 4 would be the right thing to do imo.

IncognitoMan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123819359#Comment_123819359

I read it as he's not tied to this formation / Setup forever and if he felt moving to a different formation was the answer he would do it. Be that here or wherever he ends up next.

But by extension, him not changing the formation is because he doesn't feel like it is the issue / answer.

For me anyways I can't understand how changing that midfield isn't on his radar.

CantGetNoSleep

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123819458#Comment_123819458

Because deep down he knows he isn't up to this job, and that is the easiest way to get him sacked. He must be wondering what more he has to do, especially after Grimsby. Should have been out the door by the end of January last season

keeponhurling

Yeah he can never say it publicly , but you’d wonder does he enjoy the job. Does he enjoy living in Manchester?

Is he still enthusiastic about the challenge or is it not what he’s hoped for ?

It’s a tough job and it would take its toll on anyone

twinex

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123819492#Comment_123819492

it’s arguably the toughest job in football.

Seattle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123819458#Comment_123819458

Yeah he has always said that. He's said that if he thought changing to a back 4 would help he would do it but he just doesn't see that as the problem.

However I detected a slight shift in language in the last press conference. It was like he was possibly preparing the ground to change something but wants it to be clear that he's changing because he wants to change and not because the media or outside factors are pushing him into it. Which he sort of needs to do to retain his authority.

randd1

Who gives a fcuk what he might be hinting at in press conferences?

Hes been in the job 10 months.

He’s been backed in the transfer market with an entire front 3, a new keeper, a LWB and got a lot of underperforming and trouble players out the door.

He’s had his much vaunted pre-season.

He’s been backed repeatedly by the club in the face of the worst league form since the last time we got relegated.

He’s been given every possible backing towards his vision.

I don’t give a fcuk what he says or hints in press conferences.

I give a **** that he does his job.

And by any metric, he has been an unmitigated disaster and completely out of his depth in English football.

Give him the bullet and be done with it, any more of this carry on and we’ll be in a relegation battle.

Manc-Red_

randd1 pretty much hitting the nail on the head there…..

We lose this game Saturday and the crowd will be heard booing at OT for miles around.

He has to go if we’re beaten on Saturday imho.

Enough is Enough.

SuperTortoise

The obvious solution is to play Bruno as the central 10 with Mount and Casimero behind him, with Cunha and Mbueno as two 9's, your wing backs should provide the width so long as they are not inverted, so Amad as Lwb and Dorgu as Rwb.

You get a functioning midfield, playing your only athletic midfielder in midfield(Mount) and Bruno in the only position he can play in and still keep 3 at the back.

I quiet like Dorgu, i don't get the hate for him most of you have, he's functional, hard working gets stuck in and can provide overlapping runs with a cross, he's exactly the type of player you need.

Mbueno is a very good signing, again exaclty the the player you need, Sesko would appear to be an expensive dud.

I quite like Amorin, he a likeable character, i enjoy listening to his press conferences, but i think the pressure is starting to get to him. I think you have improved over last season, but the gains are very marginal.

billyhead

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123819879#Comment_123819879

If he is still in charge after a loss on Saturday, we will know the height of Ineos ambitions

GiftofGab

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123818587#Comment_123818587

Newcastle have ambitions of being a top club. Howe won't leave them for Utd.

rob316

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123820058#Comment_123820058

I absolutely hate this mentality of a player is written off as a dud after a few games, actually his first start it was. Not every successful signings hits the ground running, others also have great starts and fade away. I'm not saying you need a season to judge every player but reserve yourself for 10-15 games atleast.

PARlance

Stateman Dave focusing on absolutely terrible individual errors more so than an issue with the system.

Edit: He still thinks the system needs tweaking, but his bottom line was that any system will fail with the individual brain farts players keep doing.

https://youtu.be/ZEMbnBeDYJw?si=6s1X6WJ_SDcTRPw-

Nalz

Where I got most annoyed at Amorim was the Europa League final and the lack of a smart plan B against an average defensive spurs with 3 of their best players out.

Once off game.

Nothing of note to try change it up.

DrPhilG

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123820368#Comment_123820368

Danny Murphy said something similar I believe, the system is fine but the players aren't doing what they should. Highlighted Bruno's failure to follow Foden leading to the first goal.

But individual errors have been crucifying us for so long I don't know what more we can do. Cattle prod?

Ultimate Gowlbag

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123820368#Comment_123820368

I watched that and agreed pretty much with it,lads just see someone mention the system and seem to parrot it blindly….an analysis like that from Statman Dave wouldnt go down well in here!

bucketybuck

There are a few of you that really don't seem to grasp where "individual errors" come from. Where they originate.

IncognitoMan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123820627#Comment_123820627

The problem is that Bruno is tracking Foden because of the position that he has been asked to play.

That is an issue for the manager to identify and fix

Jofspring

So we have had what 8 or 9 managers at this stage that are apparently out of their depth or clueless according to a lot of fans. Surely that can't be the case at this stage. We just seem to be in an awful rut and no matter what we do we can't get out of it. Managers have tried the soft approach and it hasn't worked. They've tried the tough approach and it hasn't worked. We've tried nearly every formation and seem to still find positions on the pitch that we are lacking in which cause that system to fail.

Not sure why people keep mentioning managers to the end of the season either. If amorim is to go it should be a permanent change, we are only 4 games into the season, it's not like it's January.

Ultimate Gowlbag

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123820698#Comment_123820698

Im presuming most would go with the phrase,especially the "individual" part but it seems any player can have a get out of jail card tucked into their sock as long as it leads back to Amorim……like its Fifa and he has control of every player but pressed the wrong button by accident!

PARlance

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123820634#Comment_123820634

In fairness, I think there's plenty of merit in lads complaining about "the system", maybe not enough focus on the individual errors though, but plenty did highlight them as well

The frustrating thing with Amorim is that he has a formation more than a system, calling what he does a system is being far too generous... He has a formation and is completely married to 3-4-2-1... We saw that against Grimsby when he brought on Mount and played him LWB. Surely he can make tweaks to this formation from time to time and let his "system" be that he plays his 3-4-2-1 mainly but also be able to adjust this at times.

As Statman suggests at the end, a 3-4-1-2 was ideal for City on Sunday. I don't think it's too much to expect that a manager can't make a tweak like that.

billyhead

Enrique would be the ideal managerial appointment but being realistic and obviously he wouldn't be first choice for many, I reckon Southgate would be given the job.

kyleman

There are so many red flags with this so called system.

Bruno who has been our best attacker for years is now at 31 expected to be sprinting back into our box to defend and at the attacking end we end up with Dorgu continually trying to cross the ball. Just madness.

keane2097

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123820729#Comment_123820729

I think it's pretty easy to argue that all of the managers were a bad fit or not at the top level.

Moyes - clear enough

LVG - potentially decades after his peak, hired after recent success at international level which probably translates weakly

Mourinho - was already past his stint at the top level, a decline that hasn't really stopped. His own 'show me where they play after this' line applies to him, it's not an upward curve. Always blew up after the number of years he spent at United anyway. Nevertheless got a tune out of a poor squad at times.

Solksjaer - good guy, a tonic after a bad period under Mourinho but hardly a galaxy brain manager

Rangnick - barely a manager at club level

Ten Hag - Good record at a club whose budget dwarfs domestic competitors. Tactical approach failed to translate to a more competitive league, tactical response to this was completely incoherent and was clearly getting less effective over time. Incredibly poor transfers.

Amorim - Has done a good job remodelling the group in terms of character IMO. But like ETH the tactical approach seems extremely exploitable in the rarefied air of the EPL.

Which hill do you want to die on here? Laughably three of these managers were sacked in the space of five days recently.

I don't think it's true that United have had a laundry list of excellent managers at the top of their game and some structural issue has killed each of them. Clearly some have done much better with worse situations than Amorim. I think all of them had clearly weak tactical approaches outside maybe Mourinho but I think it was clear even at the time that Jose-ball was basically over.

I think it's reasonable to accept a lot of pain to transition to a new system where confidence exists that it will lead to a higher ceiling eventually but I think it's become very doubtful that this is the situation currently.

I suspect there are a lot of managers that could have come in after ETH, played the same formation but dispensed with his bizarre setup where the defence was separated from the attack by 60 yards and improved the results at least moderately. Switching to an iconoclast with a very different system could also work after some pain, but I don't think you have to be a reactive person to have extreme doubts about whether this has actually transpired.

Seattle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123820976#Comment_123820976

This is clearly right. I think people have been listening to too much of Gary Neville who keeps parroting the notion that Utd have tried everything with managers so the problem must lie elsewhere. Obviously there were massive structural issues at the club under Woodward (which INEOS have aggressively attempted to fix) but as you outline above, it's laughable to suggest Utd haven't made numerous managerial errors, as evidenced by what those managers have done since they left.

If we can imagine Guardiola or Klopp coming in to manage the club around 2014, 2015 or whenever. Let's just say they experienced a lot of issues, ultimately failed and were sacked.

Are we really saying we would've ruined them and consigned the remainder of their managerial careers to jobs such as Real Sociedad, Sunderland, West Ham, Fenerbache, Besiktas, non elite national teams etc.

Imo you would have to be an idiot to think that's the trajectory that Guardiola or Klopp would've been forced into if they had failed at Utd because of the structure. The cream rises to the top. An elite manager is an elite manager and plenty of smart people at top clubs know one when they see one.

Kompany would never have gotten the Bayern Job with that kind of thinking because he was relegated with Burnley. Howe was relegated with Bournemouth. I'm not saying either of those are elite managers yet but they are at least very good despite having 'failure' on their CV. It is possible to contextualise managerial performances and fairly take into account the circumstances they were dealing with. Most Utd managers since Ferguson clearly weren't at the level required or were past their sell by date and you'll get no better proof than just looking at what they've gone on to do since leaving Utd.

keeponhurling

United needed open heart surgery, and in fairness Amorim and board have finally recognized this.

Garnacho, Rashford, Onana, Hojlund, Antony, Sancho, Eriksen and Lindelof all gone over the summer. Malacia frozen out.
Maguire and Casemiro still there , but not starting and contracts expire next summer.

Maybe in time we’ll look back fondly on 2025 ?

Even if Amorim doesn’t stick around , somebody else can benefit from the culture change

BenK

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123820976#Comment_123820976

Very well said and I fully agree on all the previous managerial appointments post-Fergie. Just like with some of the player signings in recent years we haven't been shopping at the top shelf with previous managerial appointments.

Even Amorim was clearly a risky appointment, the managerial equivalent of signing a Sesko. & I'm not writing Sesko off at all, he's someone with clear potential but he's also untested at the top level.

Zeek12

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123820627#Comment_123820627

Play players in their correct position, is what you can do. Stop pushing square pegs into round holes.

Bruno has been a very effective No. 10 for many years. Is he realistically going to change into a defensively minded midfielder at this point in his career?

The likes of Dorgu and Mazroui don't have the capability to effectively play the WB roles. Question marks over Dalot in that position too.

Shaw showed again on Sunday how he is a liability at LCB.

I'd also add Amad doesn't convince in the No. 10 position, he's far better either as RWB or right sided attacker….but of course injuries played a part in his being played there on Sunday