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DART+ (DART Expansion)

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 105 ✭✭A1ACo


    Looks like a mixture of Airline and Bay-facing seating arrangements for the new DARTs, all high-backed, and can be seen in this walk-through e.g. at 2:02mins:

    The New DART Trains for Dublin Are Here! - YouTube

    Looks like the seats may be comfortable for the first few minutes only,.. as they look relatively thin-cushioned, but you never know!

    Can't say i'm a fan of the blue colour 'anywhere' land seats - and I think I read somewhere that the seats are meant to be corporately recognisable as 'Dublin public transport' with same blue colours as Dublin Bus.

    Maybe i'll like the Luas style, walk-through gangways/ carriages too…

    Overall though looking forward to seeing and using them!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 15,866 ✭✭✭✭loyatemu


    the seats looks similar design to the most recent Darts, which are comfortable enough even though the cushion is thin. The previous generation with the thicker cushions are awful and only fit for very short people.

    Still no update on the Dart+ South plans, other than the date for Wicklow Town being pushed out several times.

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,777 ✭✭✭KrisW1001


    Yes, that’s the rough ballpark. DART+ aims to double the number of Commuter+DART journeys.

    “DART+ is a transformative programme of projects that will double the passenger capacity for rail services in the Greater Dublin Area (GDA), from 26,000 passenger journeys per direction per hour to 52,000. ”
    -
    DART+ Market process to help deliver DART+ Programme underway

    75% would be a good estimate of non-DART+ vs DART+, so currently say 11.5 million (75% of 15.3 million) Commuter service journeys that will be replaced by DART, plus 21.3 already on DART = 33 million give or take*.

    A doubling of that 33 million, plus growth in the meantime would make 75 million a reasonable high-level target. Ridership is still recovering, with a 10% increase in 2023 to 2024, but overall both DART and Commuter are still just a shade below 2019’s figures.

    __

    * figures from here: Iarnród Éireann Annual Report Year Ended 31 December 2024).

    Post edited by KrisW1001 on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,378 ✭✭✭spillit67


    That’s capacity though. On the initial CBA it seems really vague and doesn’t even model the impact of MetroLink (they say this could cannibalise passengers but I can’t see how it does that). They say 25-30m more boardings by 2043. That would (I guess) bring it to 55m-60m for those particular routes. It seems hyper conservative, almost like it is a box tick.

    The existing DART operates well below its capacity. At peak time 8am it appears to carry a little over 10k between both directions. Capacity is around 20k (10 tphpd- I know some DARTs are shorter at that hour but I believe each can hold 1,200)?

    I wouldn’t expect 100% occupancy but that does appear to tally with the experience vs. the Luas where it is quickly wedged. There’s so much slack in the existing DART to grow into and new developments / transport connections will do it.

    Like if the MetroLink wasn’t modelled it’s a bit mad, if you take the MetroLink Airport integration at Tara alone I’d think that will drive at least 1 million passengers to DART Coastal services per annum. This would be almost exclusively from the southside and would be by basically taking out the theoretical capacity of the 702 Aircoach route.

    75m does seem really doable to me, even sense checking that vs. the Copenhagen S Bahn it follows.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,777 ✭✭✭KrisW1001



    If you want the official projections, the answer is 25-30 million additional journeys above a predicted 2043 ridership of something like 43 million:

    The mode shift to public transport is delivered through a significant increase in rail passengers which is offset by a slight reduction in bus and Luas passengers. Introduction of DART+ will result in an increase in public transport patronage of around 15 million passengers per annum by 2043 with a reduction in road (private vehicle) demand. The shares for each public transport mode are presented in Figure 7.17 which shows a significant shift towards heavy rail with an increase in the region of 100,000-150,000 passenger boardings per day or 25-30 million per annum. Inclusion of BusConnects and Metrolink may erode some of this increase however it is likely that the model underestimates the shift to public transport so the impact of erosion may not be significant in reality

    DART+ Programme Preliminary Business Case.

    A bit of maths shows the projected 45% increase in usage. Some more sums reveals that this study uses a baseline “do nothing” ridership of around 41-45 million in 2043. Let’s call it 43 million … but this is a seriously low estimate. (there’s a mathematical error in conversion of boardings per day to the range per year, so I had to work with a range).

    Here’s why that’s such a lowball estimate: 2024 saw around 33 million actual boardings on DART and Dublin commuter (excluding the assumed 25% of commuter services are will be unaffected by DART+). The projection for 2025 is for another 10% growth overall, which means over 36 million boardings on DART and Dublin Commuter combined in 2025. I expect this growth to taper off after this year, but even an extremely modest 2% average growth between 2026 and 2043 would mean demand of over 50 million passengers per annum by 2043. That’s without adding any additional services. At that level of demand, the DART/Commuter network would be capacity limited without DART+. Double the capacity by increasing frequency, and you’ll easily hit 75 million by the 2043 deadline. Honestly, I wouldn’t be surprised if it reached that within 5 years of DART+ opening.

    Now, you’re going to be surprised, but: MetroLink is not modelled in this final business case, and neither was BusConnects - and this is because because business cases have to be considered in isolation. Otherwise, you’d end up with a house of cards where the loss of funding for one project immediately makes many others impossible to justify and you’re left with nothing. Metro was considered in the option selection: versions of each scheme were analysed with and without Metro to arrive at a preliminary benefit-to-cost ratio.

    I actually think that once Metro and DART+ are operating, it will make the case for DART Underground. Back in 2018, the tunnel’s high capital cost (nearly as much as the rest of the programme put together) counted against the tunnel’s otherwise good BCR of approximately 2.0 (2.3 overall for DART+ with tunnel).



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,378 ✭✭✭spillit67


    Ha you’ve just repeated my post!

    I had thought they had done detailed analysis on D+ and not needing the tunnel anymore. Seems to be more to me on the capacity side. I think the shortcomings at Heuston will be apparent after about a year. People will ask why so few trains continue to Connolly / Spencer Dock and also why they can’t get more central.



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