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N25 - Carrigtwohill to Midleton [route options published]

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,634 ✭✭✭Pete_Cavan


    Whether a new junction at Milebrush is included or not, the N25 between Carrigtwohill and Midleton needs upgrading. It is needed now, nevermind if the population of the area increases significantly.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,079 ✭✭✭hans aus dtschl


    Yep. I'd fully agree. But it's nowhere near as urgent as the lakeview roundabout junction and East of Midleton though.

    The problem is that the local councillors are saying that the N25 needs to be upgraded by TII, for the express purposes of allowing the council to pursue unsustainable development dreams around a newly created junction at milebush...and in doing so, undermining the N25 a little bit.

    In short, they want to turn a piece of national infrastructure into their pet distributor. It's not reasonable. They messed up Oatencake, so someone else must fix it, is the attitude. I wouldn't even have minded if they had put in a local distributor plan around milebush, but they didn't bother: their plan was for retail and warehouse sprawl, like they did in Little Island, Cobh Cross, Kinsale Road, Togher, Frankfield, Airport Business Park etc etc etc. That's been their business plan for decades.

    They pick a junction on a national road near the city and try and coax businesses to set up near the city, with no supporting infrastructure, hollowing out the city and creating unsustainable developments in the process. Now they want a new junction to built (by TII!) just to facilitate it!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,816 ✭✭✭JeffKenna


    Can't see why that is needed, that stretch of the N25 is grand. Lakeview and Castlemaryter is where the issues are.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,079 ✭✭✭hans aus dtschl


    Houses directly on it and short merge lanes. Needs to be resolved. But I fully agree with you, they're not urgent issues whatsoever. In East Cork, this is literally one of the best and safest roads by a long way. The "urgency" to get it done is all to facilitate unsustainable development.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 3,296 ✭✭✭KrisW1001


    The short merge lanes westbound at Oatencake are actually fixable - there's space at the roadside to at least double the length of the merge lane, but for safety reasons, doing the work would probably mean closing the junction temporarily, which would cause the mother of all public outcries.



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  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,964 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/munster/arid-41675582.html



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,079 ✭✭✭hans aus dtschl


    They're mentioning many different things simultaneously: "Safety", "Housing", "Gridlock", "a solution before schools start". There's several different genuine competing requirements here.

    I'm not against an N25 upgrade, but I am against simply adding a new milebush interchange.

    I'd prefer to see a full new distributor network (and that does not mean one-new-wavy-road from milebush to ballyrichard beg ) and I'd also prefer to prioritise sustainable development plans, rather than lumping 5000 houses into Waterrock and Milebush and hoping for the best, as is the current plan.

    This is the roads forum, so ignoring all other infrastructure and using my "crayons" how about:

    Remove Lakeview and Oatencake

    New junction at Milebush, with associated distributor (realistically development to the North only).

    New junction at Carrigshane with associated distributor (North and South)

    TBH I think a big problem here is that the council's LADP for the are is a bit too old fashioned and needs to be modernised. The plan to lump a load of housing estates in will just cause chaos for the N25 and also for Dunkettle etc.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 889 ✭✭✭omicron


    The gridlock referred to currently is being caused by a new set of traffic lights in Ballinacurra which allows a minor road (the "dark road" ) access to the main Ballinacurra road but as a result caused this massive tailback every evening on the n25. It could be fixed in 5 minutes by changing the light sequence.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 837 ✭✭✭Jayuu


    One wonders what sort of traffic modelling (if any) is done when new traffic lights are introduced like this. Reminds me of the chaos that existed in Oilgate for a while when the new section of the M11 was opened because of the sequencing of the lights in Oilgate village.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 5,760 Mod ✭✭✭✭spacetweek


    It’s most likely the traffic light sequence is determined by trying to give everybody approaching the junction an equal chance to get through, but everyone on the main road cries foul and says that you’re holding them up. So then the traffic light sequence is changed to give all the priority to the main road and people on the minor road are stuck for ages waiting. It’s not fixing the problem, it’s applying might is right thinking to it.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 889 ✭✭✭omicron


    Well it's causing 20 minutes delays on an N road for thousands of people heading east in the evening so that a handful cars on an L road looking to access a nearby R road can have wait times of under a minute.

    Traffic light sequences should be designed to reduce congestion AND give minor roads access, not give minor roads access at all costs.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 837 ✭✭✭Jayuu


    Have to say that I would agree with this - the modelling should ensure that the route with the most traffic gets a longer priority. Yes that might be frustrating for those on the minor road but volume should determine the sequence. Indeed that's what was done with Oilgate eventually and resolved the issue almost completely.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,964 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    An upgrade of the Carrigtwohill to Midleton section of the N25 is also listed in the Department of Transport’s sectoral plan but is still only at the preparatory stage of scoping and evaluation. At a meeting of Cork County Council’s Southern Division last year, Director of Services Padraig Barrett described the section as “a substandard, unsafe road” while councillors dubbed it “absolutely lethal” and claimed it has had “fundamentally no improvement works since the day it was opened in 1968.”

    https://www.independent.ie/regionals/cork/news/progress-in-cork-on-major-road-upgrade-that-is-set-to-bypass-three-notorious-traffic-bottlenecks/a2089187107.html



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 5,760 Mod ✭✭✭✭spacetweek


    Preparatory scoping stage is mad stuff for a scheme which has been planned on and off for decades now and is an unsafe road. We all know the scoping to construction time could be more than 10 years.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,148 ✭✭✭Rulmeq


    I went searching for it after Marno's post (to see how far it got in previous planning) and came across this website with a cert that expired in 2021: https://www.n25carrigtohillmidleton.ie/



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 5,760 Mod ✭✭✭✭spacetweek


    Bonus points to TII for spelling Carrigtwohill (note the w) incorrectly in the domain name.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,079 ✭✭✭hans aus dtschl


    It's the correct name funnily enough. The incorrect one (which is more frequently used) has the w!

    It's a big local/non-local thing



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 628 ✭✭✭Aontachtoir


    All this confusion could be avoided by sticking to the OG Carraig Thuathail. ;^)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 3,296 ✭✭✭KrisW1001


    Yeah, It's a shame that we didn't phase out the "English" names those places where it was just a cack-handed attempt at phonetic transcription: places like this only ever had one name, and still only have one name, but we persist in using two different spellings of that name: the original one and some random mangling. of it.

    I know there were good reasons not to do so at independence, not least because at the time Irish didn't even use standard Latin letterforms, but I don't see much benefit to writing "An Carraig Tuathail CARRIGTWOHILL" on a sign when the "English" version looks more bizarre than the real name.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,361 ✭✭✭Chris_5339762


    The trouble with Carrigtwohill specifically is that the mangling kind of says "Rock of Two Hills" which is believable.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 3,296 ✭✭✭KrisW1001


    Sounds plausible, until you look around. There’s only one hill nearby (just south-east of the N25 junction), and it’s not even that high. To the north, you have a complete range of the Nagle foothills - very hard to pick just two out of that.

    My guess is that the “Rock” in Carraig Tuathail is the promontory that Barryscourt Castle is built on. The road now separates them, but it would have been the highest point in the surrounding area back in the middle ages.

    All of this is off-topic, though, so as an attempt to bring things back, I think this scheme is at risk of competing interests: Safety would dictate that junction 4 (Water-Rock) be closed, but the desire of Cork County Council to create more develpement land goes directly against this. Remember that we are dealing with the same organisation that approved a set of traffic lights on one of the busiest sections of the primary east-west corridor through the south of this country - thankfully Amgen pulled the plug on their factory, or there would be total chaos here every single morning.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,079 ✭✭✭hans aus dtschl


    Their cycle route through the new scheme was crazy too. They wanted local people to respond to the survey saying that the road was unsafe and needed to be upgraded accordingly. I suspect most locals saw that the proposed "upgrade" was just intended to facilitate development around them, and didn't engage positively. The design proposed to route all non-motorway traffic down Midleton main street to improve safety FFS, a poor effort at best.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,135 ✭✭✭jhegarty


    The plan is to close the Water Rock road at the railway tracks to regular traffic before the connecting the new road.



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