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Unsolved Irish Mysteries.

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,090 ✭✭✭mazdamiatamx5


    [quote]In the Deirdre Jacob case:

    "On January 21 gardaí questioned a middle-aged man who claimed he had given a lift to a young woman answering Deirdre's description on Tuesday July 28 from Clane to Carrickmacross in Monaghan. In a number of anonymous phone calls to gardaí and to local media, the man insisted the girl was Deirdre Jacob. On several occasions gardaí appealed to him to come forward so they could eliminate him from their inquiries. Finally gardaí traced the man and found his claim was untrue. It was a lavish hoax."

    "But for the four months gardaí tried to track the man, Bernadette and Michael Jacob went in search of Deirdre around the border area retracing their daughter's visit to Cavan and her movements. Every weekend they made the journey northwards. There was a kind of hope in their search. They were devastated to learn that it had all been for nothing.'

    I read somewhere else that this 'witness' had recently lost a daughter and his own grief had somehow led to him to making this story up.[/quote]

    Interesting. Also the case of the unfortunate Dean Lyons, who 'confessed' to murdering two women.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grangegorman_killings#:~:text=On%20the%20morning%20of%207,5%20Orchard%20View.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,157 ✭✭✭✭Esel
    Not Your Ornery Onager


    When Mary Harney said on radio that Charles J Haughey should be given a jail sentence (before court proceedings had stated), that was that. No prosecution because of a possibly prejudiced jury.

    Very nice outcome for Charlie…

    Not your ornery onager



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 289 ✭✭NoeldeBournaix


    Just watching these RTE news reports from the time, the general public would have had no reason to think that the Johnnie Foxes sighting was anything other than genuine.

    https://www.rte.ie/archives/2023/0330/1367177-annie-mccarrick-search/

    https://www.rte.ie/archives/2018/0403/951845-annie-mccarrick-missing/



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,090 ✭✭✭mazdamiatamx5


    Harney as a junior FF MP once received an unexpected Xmas present from CJH.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,137 ✭✭✭MrMusician18


    I'm almost certain that the IT did an interview with an ex boyfriend of Annie McCarrick a few years ago. I can't find it online now though.

    In any case, it looks like the gardai have nothing here. It's reported that all they got from the interview overseas is that the suspects alibi wasn't fully watertight, that's all - the individual wasn't given up. The search of the house therefore seems to be a shot in the dark perhaps based on the typical disposal of a body being at a location close and familiar to the perpetrator.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,893 ✭✭✭Caquas


    I was referring to the alleged sightings by strangers in Enniskerry and Johnnie Foxes. The former coworker was a recognition witness which is much more reliable but it was probably a confusion of dates i.e. Annie did take that bus in the past but not on the day she disappeared.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,090 ✭✭✭mazdamiatamx5


    Yes, that ex is not suspect, to be clear.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,090 ✭✭✭mazdamiatamx5


    In 1993, most people would have watched RTE news and checked out a newspaper if not daily then now and again. So it's not difficult to perceive of a narrative whereby people came forward with honest but mistaken sightings along the lines of 'now that I think of it, I did see a girl who looked like that on 44/18/in Enniskerry/in Johnny Foxes' around the day she was reported missing.' One mistaken sighting may have inadvertently triggered others, not due to anything malicious but due to AGS putting too much on the Johnny Foxes alleged sighting.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 596 ✭✭✭jesuisjuste


    It seems in many of the cases of the era, the gardai mostly aligned around a single scenario, even when it became statistically unlikely. I expect it was probably a combination of limited resources, and also lack of investigative experience, as murders were relatively uncommon. Even today, cases like Satchwell show the treacle-like manoeuvring investigations go through, perhaps because the most likely suspects get in early, act all innocent, and control the narrative to some extent.

    When someone spins a story in Ireland, many people tend to believe it. The dark side of the gift of the gab.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,103 ✭✭✭cap.in.hand.


    i wouldn't rule out the searching of that property showing something of significance...if the killing of Annie mccarrick was planned...she could be anywhere...if it were a accidental killing ... people panic and more likely to go with a place they know.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,351 ✭✭✭GavPJ




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,431 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    I would be discounting a body under the extention. He would have to dig down a metre plus for the grave not to come to light during the extension building process. Digging a grave to bury someone is not easy. To go down beyond a metre takes serious effort nowadays they use mini diggers mainly to dig graves. It hard going with a shovel pick and crowbar. There is other tools that make it easier such as a digging fork.

    I suspect Annie's body is elsewhere and unlikely to be found

    Slava Ukrainii



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,357 ✭✭✭tibruit


    The old certainty is gone off you so. Don`t forget JoJo probably got as least as far as Castledermot too, where a young woman of similar description was seen hitching at around the appropriate time.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 596 ✭✭✭jesuisjuste


    JoJo was trying to get home though if I'm not mistaken, not heading out to an unknown destination. Annie was already at home as her last confirmed sighting.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 596 ✭✭✭jesuisjuste


    I agree with this, all I'm saying is that to carry out an extensive search of the property, after 30 years, they would likely have to do some deep digging themselves, and included in that would be perhaps bore holes through the foundation of the extension and shed etc. No point half-assing the job at this point. Better to leave no stone unturned. I imagine that takes multiple days worth of effort, all carefully and with trained experts, and cadaver dog brought in multiple times. I'm not surprised at the length of time, but as you say probably still won't find anything, and will wrap it up before the week is out I would think. Don't forget Satchwell also buried the body inside the house, under the floorboards, so that will all be looked at too, probably even the front garden.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,357 ✭✭✭tibruit


    I was replying to someone who had earlier expressed certainty that the Gardaí know who killed JoJo. They don`t. There are too many loose ends. They took what they know to be cast iron i.e. she got to Moone and they arrested the guy who drove her that far and simultaneously searched his property and found nothing. It`s exactly what they are doing now with Annie`s dodgy ex. Give them a shake and see if something falls out.

    The last confirmed sighting of Annie was on the bus to Enniskerry by an individual who knew her. Maybe they`ve come up with something new but if so the media don`t know what it is and the Sindo headline at the weekend was outrageously speculative and not supported by anything in the article itself.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 596 ✭✭✭jesuisjuste


    When I say confirmed, I think the standard is someone saw her, talked to her, knew where she was going and what she was doing. Or alternatively backed up by video etc. Eyewitnesses who think they have seen someone at a location where they would not be expected to typically be is notoriously less reliable. Not saying it didn't happen, just that statistically other scenarios also come in to play at that point.

    As for the gardai, completely agree, I don't think they can ever be certain without a body, or physical evidence, and even then with time passed, seems like a lost cause without a confession, but we'll see.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,103 ✭✭✭cap.in.hand.


    If her remains were found at the property...the suspect/suspects would have some explaining to do...I think gardai had no other option but to organise this property search



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,090 ✭✭✭mazdamiatamx5


    Now thank i I think of it no need to PM, it's publicly available media report:

    https://archive.is/20250612180609/https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-41608546.html



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,087 ✭✭✭juneg


    Has the woodland site in Wicklow mentioned in that article ever been searched? It could be nothing to do with this case but open up another case entirely



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 170 ✭✭LunaLoo


    I was just about to ask same Q, whats the point in bringing cadaver dogs to a site if its not going to be explored.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 775 ✭✭✭Hungry Burger


    Would it really be feasible to bury a body in that garden in a residential setting and not been seen or noticed by anyone?

    How long would it have taken to dig such a grave if he was using a shovel? Would someone else living in the house itself not notice? Unless of course they were in on it.


    Seems far fetched to me but I’m not too familiar with that part of Clondalkin so maybe I’m wrong.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 170 ✭✭LunaLoo


    Does anyone know about the houses directly behind the house in clondalkin? On Google Street view they look a lot newer than the one being searched. They look possibly 90s,... if they were being built at the time it might of been an ideal place



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,880 ✭✭✭Day Lewin


    I suspect that when anyone who grew up in Dublin happens to commit a murder (not that I've ever done it) they must immediately think of the mountains.

    They're so near, yet full of remote locations. Forestry plantations, heathery moorland, streams and lakes.

    It really is the traditional place for dumping bodies! So many have been found there - and some never found.

    If you have the use of a car at all, losing a body in the Dublin or Wicklow hills must be much, much easier than digging a deep grave or even a shallow one in your own back garden in the suburbs, and hoping that nobody notices.

    The sea is another easy possibility - many have committed suicide off Howth and their bodies just float out and are never seen again. If you tied a weight on…well, let's not be too graphic. But you get the idea.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5 brigid.coates


    Can't imagine anyone getting away with burying a body in the garden in any housing estate. Someone would definitely notice. Satchwell wasn't spotted became it was all done indoors.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,205 ✭✭✭mrslancaster


    That article says the brothers alibi was that they were away and had rental car records.

    “The brothers were spoken to by detectives in 1993 but they were reported to have had an “airtight alibi” involving rental cars and being away the weekend Ms McCarrick disappeared.

    If the brothers interviewed in 93 were both away for the weekend, how did one brother (the guy in France) turn up for dinner with his girlfriend? Unless it was a third brother that was interviewed back in 93.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 775 ✭✭✭Hungry Burger


    Seems a bit far fetched too me. Like mentioned above the sea or the mountains would be much easier and cleaner.

    That being said Satchwell was surrounded by the sea and decided to put her in the wall so not unheard of. I don’t know anyone person of right mind who could live in a house with a person buried in the wall or the garden but I suppose these people are not right at all.


    Gardaí could just be ruling the property out and nothing more.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,205 ✭✭✭mrslancaster


    Of course if the brothers had rented cars that weekend, all the bus sightings could be a red herring. Nothing to say Annie didn’t travel somewhere by car yet all news reports focussed on buses and walking.



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