Unsolved Irish Mysteries.

NoeldeBournaix

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123546071#Comment_123546071

The only thing I would add is that the brother and partner were invited over for dinner, but this is according to them.

cap.in.hand.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123546093#Comment_123546093

That would implicate his girlfriend at the time then as well if it wasn't the truth...no doubt she was interviewed and confirmed this was the case... maybe that brother hadn't known that Saturday his brother had already killed her.

LunaLoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123546093#Comment_123546093

Unless Annie had told one of her flatmates another friend of her plans for hosting dinner that they were able to verify

NoeldeBournaix

Who knows. Maybe the brother told his partner that they received an invite.

I don't think she told her flatmates about this invite, well it hasn't been mentioned anywhere that they included this in any statements.

Of course, Annie could have invited the brother and partner over after the flatmates had headed off for the weekend.

mrslancaster

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123544831#Comment_123544831

A lot of reports talked about Annie travelling by bus to Enniskerry. The sightings in the village and Johnny Foxes on the day she vanished seem to be debunked at this stage. There’s no record of any disturbance at her apartment so assume she left it voluntarily at some stage.
Not sure if the reports of her getting the 18 bus to Ranelagh that day were also written off? If she did get the 18 (Sandymount to Palmerstown route) or the 44 (Dcu to Enniskerry route), she could have left the bus at any number of stops along those routes, met someone in a car (rented?) and gone on by car to any number of destinations. Interesting that the 18 route heads near enough to Clondalkin.

derb12

From sandymount you’d get the 18 to Ranelagh and switch to the 44 to enniskerry so both could have happened.

Both extremely unlikely sightings which seem to be debunked - 3pm on a March afternoon with barely a couple of hours of daylight, taking two connecting buses (18 extremely unreliable always and the 44 I’m thinking (could be wrong) reliable but rare) followed by long walk to Johnny foxes - it all seems highly unlikely, bordering on farcical as a theory.

Unfortunately despite all the activity on this thread, the search in clondalkin seems not to be going anywhere. Wouldn’t a cadaver dog have picked ip on something by now? Anyone know how close you’d have to get to a well buried 30 year old corpse before a dog would get the scent?

It’s desperately sad and lonely for the family.

Orban6

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123546223#Comment_123546223

I was wondering about this. Walk to Ranelagh is only about 3 Km. If she intended to to go to Johnnie Foxes, then Kilterin would have been the nearest stop.

cap.in.hand.

Obviously a lot of building work probably went on the house and garden since it was sold including excavation works with earth being put in dump trailers and carried away

TaraghGreen

Was the grocery bag tested for DNA? Is it possible the killer handled it at some point? It is strange that a bag of groceries with perishables wouldn't have been put away by Annie before leaving the apartment.

Bogey Lowenstein

Can anyone tell me had she been to Johnny Foxes before? If so, roughly how often. There was a post earlier that said she wasn't much of a pub person.

The_Kew_Tour

Was reading a bit on the Fiona Pender disappearance.

Some person came forward to say they saw a vehicle acting erratically up the mountains could not make out person but they remember a sticker on front of car with *keep her lit"

Her boyfriend had sticker with same wording. Maybe just sheer coincidence but who knows

mazdamiatamx5

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123545883#Comment_123545883

Possibly I'm overegging the pudding. But the property seller can write their own description and send it to estate agent.

Over the top exaggeration is typical of estate agent speech, yes, but the bit in all caps (and only the garden description) just struck me as odd, as HG does apparently tend to use ALL CAPS in internet comments (proven from a valedictory he posted on a neighbour's death announcement).

mazdamiatamx5

@Luna Loo,

Yes I think this is correct except I thought dinner allegedly planned was for the Friday, not following day (the Saturday). One of reasons people are sceptical of Enniskerry angle is because simply wouldn't have been time for he rto head out there and be back in time to make meal. But if dinner planned for Saturday not Friday then yes there would been time for Enniskerry excursion. Annie reported missing on the Sunday.

Genghis

I went looking for any info on the younger brother. Found someone with the same name, along with the name of his wife. If I have found the right people they look to have a beautiful home, a very nice life together (I am not posting any links in case I am wrong).

I can't help but wonder about what his partner knows or thinks about the whole situation (I'm assuming the met some time later). It has to cast a long shadow over the whole time they are together, anytime it comes up in the news, anytime he is detained or interviewed, etc.

Does she know the truth and is okay with it? Does she know the truth but maybe chooses to ignore it? Has she been told a fabricated story? Does she believe her partner was simply unfortunate enough to be implicated in someone else's crime? Or that whatever happened Annie is not any risk to her?

mazdamiatamx5

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123546197#Comment_123546197

These are possibilities for sure, but era before mobile phones (except for Yuppie types in London, very few in Ireland had them), so it's not as though she would have received call on mobile phone and got off bus to meet someone due to call. Alleged perp might possibly have had one if he was successful businessman but I doubt if most of his friends/acquaintances did. I think more likely she never got on any bus, and bus sightings were all mistaken identity. Perp had been watching apartment, and knocked on door, strikes me as more plausible.

mazdamiatamx5

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123546288#Comment_123546288

Post suggesting she wasn't much of a pub person was from me, I was just basing it on descriptions of her from friends/family, she didn't strike me as a party animal type or frequent pub or night club goer. (Not of course that it would remotely excuse what happened to her even if she was.) I'm not saying she never went to pubs, I'm sure she did. I have never seen any reference that she had been to Johny Foxes previously. In any case, even if she had been, it makes no sense that she, as a non-car owner, would embark on an excursion on her own to Johnny Foxes from Sandymount in the mid afternoon, and bearing in mind the pub isn't even in the outskirts of Enniskerry it's a good 6km away over hilly roads. It was late March, ok not the depths of winter but not the height of the summertime. If it was a hot day in June/July, might be somewhat plausible, but even then, unlikely in my view.

Genghis

I read or heard someplace she liked traditional music / sessions and the implication then was, as Johnny Fixes was well known for its evening sessions, it could be a place she may have been interested in going.

Even if that was true, and even if she had been there on other occasions and liked it, it's extremely unlikely/ barely credible that it explains her last movements.

mazdamiatamx5

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123546420#Comment_123546420

If she was a lover of trad music, then yes it's not implausible that she would have planned to visit Johnny Foxes at some point while she was in Ireland, or indeed had already done so, but on that particular day, as you say, seem seems highly unlikely.

Now that I think of it if she enjoyed trad music, it may be part of the reason why cops put a lot of weight on Enniskerry/Johnny Foxes mistaken sightings, but they really should have twigged at an earlier date given timing/logistics it didn't pass the smell test.

mazdamiatamx5

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123546093#Comment_123546093

According to them, yes that's true. We do know (I would assume confirmed by Annie's mum, who is still with us, and phone records, which Garda can or have accessed) that a call was made by them to Annie's mum on the Sunday, from a coin operated phonebox in a Sandymount pub. But that COULD mean they were part of the cover-up all along and were engaged in setting a false trail, and that there never was a dinner invitation.

New Scottman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123546378#Comment_123546378

There's a couple of successful business men with that name. The wife has the same initial as you.

NoeldeBournaix

What are people's opinions on the 'eye witnesses'?

Which witnesses do you think are most credible? For me the only credible witnesses on the Friday are the two flatmates who had left Annie in the apartment by 10AM and her friend Anne who she phoned that morning about the hike. I do believe she headed to Quinnsworth and bought those items at about 11AM.

Do you believe the plumber that he seen her enter the apartment at 3 and leave again at about 3.15? Im not saying he was involved, just whether he was mistaken or making it up for some reason. If you believe him, there are 4 missing hours.
Maybe Annie went to another apartment in Sandymount after the trip to Quinnsworth. Maybe she did return to the apartment at 3 for those 15 minutes. Maybe she never returned home, instead the shopping was left behind the door by the killer/ accomplice using her key. Is that possible?

Edit. I should add that my opinions are only from my own reading of course. I'm sure the Guards make informed judgments after interviewing the witness!

Woodcutting

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123546384#Comment_123546384

The 088 numbers were coming in.

Woodcutting

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123546499#Comment_123546499

Wouldn't you have to go through operator then to make a call to USA from a coin phone ?

mazdamiatamx5

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123546551#Comment_123546551

No idea. But I think it's likely that that phone call took place, from that coin phone, on that date, to Annie's parents' number. The real agenda behind it is another matter.

Genghis

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123546521#Comment_123546521

Thank you. That checks out.

cap.in.hand.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123546584#Comment_123546584

Her flatmates would be back Sunday evening so you'd think the urgency to know her whereabouts on Saturday a bit OTT by calling her parents in new york... therefore it looks like genuine concern for her... maybe they thought she may have collapsed in the flat and no one there for her…leaving her parents know so quickly that Annie actions were unusual was going to cause urgency for the parent/parents to immediately fly over.

mazdamiatamx5

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123546657#Comment_123546657

It may have been genuine concern initially…but guy who made the call is allegedly the same man who has in recent years given statements to AGS, from hospital in France. Maybe he did nothing wrong at the time but then over days/weeks/months afterwards noticed suspicious things about his brother's behaviour or maybe strange comments, which he kept to himself, at least back then.

cap.in.hand.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123546742#Comment_123546742

The point is her housemates would definitely notice her missing Sunday night/Monday morning and report it...it wouldn't make sense if that brother was initially involved in the disappearance/murder already and that they'd have concerns Saturday by ringing new york ... shooting yourself in the foot moment I think....my thinking brother (suspect) confessed what he'd done later on.

mazdamiatamx5

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123546783#Comment_123546783

Yes I see what you mean.

cap.in.hand.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123546742#Comment_123546742

You'd wonder does that brother actually know where she's actually buried or just knows his brother more than likely killed her.....the alibi more than likely was sought by the brother who killed her from this brother now in France